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How do you win 'Christians' as a Christian??!!

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posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 02:45 AM
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I'm talking about Christians who are blinded by deception of 'Prosperity Gospel'!

So how do you win them as a Christian? Especially a young man as me coming up to people who are older than me? In a nutshell I believe this is like a child in kindergarten telling a renowned scientist with PhD that he/she has done something really stupid!! True or not, I believe it will infuriate the scientist!

I believe it will also be the case of a Christian telling another Christian that everything he/she's been preached with is mostly a lie! How do I do it??

What most people are taught in Christian Churches that you can pray to Jesus to help you with finances, career, jobs, business success etc. Because if you preach the 'BAD' but is ultimately the TRUTH stuff, you will probably end up losing members, status, and eventually, that lovely airconditioned church due to potentially reduced financial sustenance, read below:

What Jesus teach in the Bible is actually a warning to pursuit of Earthly riches, selling off all your possessions, hating your wife, children, parents, relatives (obviously your wife and kids WILL hate you too if one day, you suddenly decide to live like a total LOSER in the eyes of the world, like selling your 5 bedroom suburb property, your bug SUV, gadgets and then book a one-way ticket to an obscure country somewhere in the equator..)

Or let's not be too harsh, you don't live your family behind but you propose to them that they leave their comfortable lives, their friends and come with you to some very poor place that is torn by war. They still will hate you for that. You can test this to idea to someone who is happy with their lives, family, career, etc, and I tell you, they will hate you too!

You know what I mean. How do you tell someone who is financially well, is enjoying their family, their life, or striving to succeed in their career to leave them all in the pursuit of Christ? In the pursuit of their own salvation??

I'm asking this as I've only begun my journey and I don't know what to do and how to proceed?? What even complicates these is that some are my close relatives and some are friends.

It may sound insane to some but if you think of it, it's not totally insane. Our world is full of suffering and pain. Rather, in my belief that it would be insane as a Christian to pursue happiness in the form of love of family, financial stability, property, cars, food, hobbies despite the knowledge of all the suffering going on in this world and still be able to sleep too well!

That we are spending all our strength in building our own 'little empires' than help reduce/eliminate suffering in this world which is ultimately God's will. By secular standards is a very good cause for humanity and it's spiritual state. Notice, that people who made a profound change to our world in history for good, also made a huge sacrifice, and were completely driven by selfless goals?? I'm still having difficulty coming to terms with this truth that's why I'm seeking your advice. Thanks for reading and God Bless You!!




posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


Well... I have a couple of questions: Why don't you ask Father yourself of what to do? What if the person that is blessed with financial security in turn helps the poor because he/she was blessed financially? And, is your heart in the right place? I think it is, but sometimes, we kind of preemptively say what we will later wish to take back.

Each person's unique soul has their own unique experience in this grand old test; Some may take longer to take the test and some may have different tactics, but we are all tested, one way or another.



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 03:55 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 





I believe it will also be the case of a Christian telling another Christian that everything he/she's been preached with is mostly a lie! How do I do it??


Try openeing your mind to the questions from an Atheist that would argue that everything you have been preached has been a lie first.


This is the trouble with xtianity and why the pews are emptying as this relgion marches steadily into a mothball filled closet labeled the The history of human stupidity and arrogance.

You admit that you haven't been an xtian very long but you immediately want to go out and ram your beliefs down the throats of others, nothing new there my friend same old xtian arrogance.

You have been lied to my friend, from the garden of eden to noah and his ark, jesus the godman, Jonah living inside a fish.

Get off your high horse and prove your beliefs are not based on BS before you arrogantly strut around trying to re educate others suffering from sismilar delusions.

Come to think of it, why come to a conspiracy website with your bible problems ? Can't you make it to church and have your pastor tell you what to think ?

Besides, if you need someone else to tell you what to think when what is the point in your godman putting all the answers down in print for you to begin with ? are you implying that the bibles are not to be trusted as a source of information ?
edit on 17-7-2012 by ChristianJihad because: add



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 04:32 AM
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I personally believe that religion, and stuff in general, should always be open for debate, in which case I guess it should just a matter of who has the best arguements. However, not all people are willing to debate everything, for various reasons, and my personal experince tells me that you will most likely be wasting your time trying to convince them. But there are ofcause always exceptions.

With religion however it becomes tricky - especially in this case. Since both of you base your worldview on what I imagine is a mixture of religion and personal experince, and not quantifiable and verifiable data, you can only assume to know what is right and what is wrong, and therefore you may never know who holds the truth, if any. Also, logic becomes sort of an abstract concept, when you have to hold into account the will of the almighty.

If I understand this right - it seems as if you are promoting some kind of selfsacrifice, and your father who has become comfortably numb of off the luxeries of modern society disagrees with you. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I have personally had similar debates with my dad on numarous occasions, and I think it's sort of a classic part of young adulthood. Either way, my dad disagrees with my idealistic views too, and I understand why. My dad is an old man, and there is no chance of saving and changing the world in his life time, so he focuses on what he can change, which is the life of his family and friends.
Also, life is much more complicated than anyone can imagine, and we become more and more aware of this the older we get. I am sad to say this, but eventually I just think people give up.



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 05:10 AM
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edit on 17-7-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


Acts 22:3

To Add: There isn't anything wrong with "prosperity" anyways, there is too much Bible supporting it to deny it. What you should try and speak into their life about is "materialism".


edit on 17-7-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


I think you just have to speak frankly and tell them that Christianity isn't based upon telling the fuller truth, the same for many religions. Christianty is based upon mystery and embellished stories of things that are not so special. Christianity delivers an endless yarn of tales, but ends up telling that Jesus lives in you and the Community. Jesus is a complex architypal character these days, and it isn't representative of the person in those old times.

Christianty stems from the Judaic and Abrahamic root religions, but the hybridization promotes Jesus as the replacement for Yahweh. Yahweh has a lot of issues due to being linked to Abraham, the City of Ur, and then the Annunaki Creator gods. So, these jealous god themes have wants for gold, huge insights on sciences, promotion of river and volcanic rooted agriculture methods, and grandious monuments for their signature presence. Even way back in antiquity the Earth was molded by off-world intelligence that some ascribe to being god, but in reality isn't.

It isn't all that difficult to grasp. Religion is laced with the aspects of physical body, ego of the cognative mind, and a sort of ESP that once existed with a sort of 6 th sense that the Annunaki appear to have associated with Pineal Gland effects on forming the unconscious knowledge of man or a Holy Spirit about each living and each other's care. Endless chapers are written of these old effects, but the element of god is nothing more than this universal mind concept of how the 6th sense tied everyone together as one. To hear these inner voices in the mind was the ego of mind plus the unconscious mind from that inner voice that was the 6th sense. Dreams were a form of this 6th sense.

Most of those special effects of the ancient have been lost in more recent times due to the effects of things like fluoride to kill the effects of using the brain at 100 percent function and the Pineal Glands special chemical sensitivy issues that accentiate the various DNA derived and blood drived elements of the unconscious effects that influence human dispositions more genetically derived from antiquity, than that learned from present experiences.

There is just much ado about nothing, such a fuss, made over so simple concepts and expressing the issues so poorly to make them into a mystery that keeps up interest, forms a lifelong quest, and makes for the exploitation of the followers for money and power. When one gets to the end, they never have to deliver on the embellished promisses of their allegorical and metaphore used to keep them in tow for a lifetime.

Some folks wake up from their programming, others die with it and for it. The End-Times and Revelation is about those waking up from the delusional elements of religion.

There is much confusion in religion for the Creator gods, as in one sense they existed as the Annunaki with advanced sciences of genetic breeding, but in a larger sense there is the Creator of the Universe, the Earth and the Heavens, and to know this god one can only admire nature's ways and find those ways created the Annunaki themeselves. But in that original creation came the 6th sense that the Annuniki used and appeared to know well, and it was and is that universe esp that is the god, a sort of collective mind or intelligence, that lives in us all.

Jesus spoke of these concepts, but his followers totally screwed all that up, and those that abducted his memory in later periods made matters worse. What is left these days is a mess made for power and money that seeks only to sustain the mystery, and avoid telling the fuller truth on religions and from where they originated in the minds of man.




edit on 17-7-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Religion is much ado about nothing



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Thanks everyone to your replies. This is to honor your replies.

@Delayed Christmas

I agree with you but there are boundaries set in this regards. Are you treating your financial blessings that people see it that you HATE them? Are you giving away too much that your loved ones begin to hate you for they think you don't care much for them? Even if you do this as a businessman, trust, me, even your employees will hate you.

Jesus, warns against the pursuit of Earthly riches and its perils. That if you truly love God, you will HATE money. Notice that it doesn't mention in the Bible about Satan or worshipping God and hating Satan or vice versa. I'll explain in the next paragraphs:

I believe we all know about the 'Satanic Organizations' we have in conspiracy literature, like the Illuminati, Freemasons, Hollywood, Music Industry, Silicon Valley, etc. What do they have in common??? Blatant and obvious 666 or pentagram symbols? NO. Maybe yes in fine print or obscure symbols too obscure to be noticed and those doesn't count. But their desire and plans to accumulate WEALTH, power/control, fame and notice how they love to recruit the rich, famous, and powerful in their ranks... This is what makes them all one and the same evil.

The Bible is right on the money that is the root of all evil. Jesus made no mention of the 'Church of Satan' because it would not exist. The evil forces in this world are smart, they won't hide behind for what they truly are but in money!! - the very thing that every man lusts for! They had to do this because the Truth is so powerful and permeating that if they show themselves up as they are, most people would probably live the Truth!


@Christian Jihad

I could see that most Christian Churches nowadays have varying degrees of compromise in teaching the 'Prosperity Gospel' so they don't lose all their members and profits.

I see this even in my local churches. So I don't trust that the answer they will give is according to the truth. But still I'll have to ask them at some point.

@Mads1987

If your dad is reaching out to family and friends out of his Love for God, walking in God's will, preaching the truth with all his strength, resources, and abilities, which is the Love and salvation of God, reaching out to the lost, helping people in their sufferings, satisfying the hungry/thirsty and not the love of money, financial status, career, etc, then I don't see how that can be wrong. Some/most people will hate him I tell you that, but the ending will be good and people saved.

The mission field is not just any place in a 3rd world country. It could also start with people around you, people close to you. Believe me, if you do it right out of love of God, and the lost without deliberately trying to annoy people, people will hate you for it, especially if you're trying to win people who are financially well and enjoying their lives. They will hate you, because one will want to HATE their financial well-being and material things they have accumulated in life!

But also hear this. If no one will reach out to the most dangerous and most depressed regions of this Earth, with the message of Truth, and salvation, and a helping hand, who will? Sometimes, it's not about the reward, but can you live your life in comfort knowing that other people are living torturous lives, in great suffering and stress and you could have made a huge difference if you acted now?

To be honest, I have not done anything related to missions outreach yet, I have just been starting and starting to get people to hate, even my loved ones! I've been a Christian for many years and not exactly young at over 30 years of age , but only recently has God shown me the truth in my desperation - because now I know how it feels to be desperate, to be poor, to be plagued by enormous stress and suffering. It is in my desperate situation, I seeked the truth and God showed me.

Now I couldn't live without doing anything about other's who may suffering greatly and nobody's doing anything about it. I realized material wealth is not everything, it's not even remotely, the solution to any problem, even to physical/natural/technological problems(this part I've known for practicing sustainability engineering/research), most of the time in fact, it is a curse!

Hope no one gives up, hope you don't give up. Life is complicated but this is what Jesus has to say:
Matthew 11:28-30 28 Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

You are not alone, I'm still figuring that part out.

@NoturTypical

Prosperity is not always synomous with material wealth, I agree with you!

@Magnumopus

Agree with you too, with Annunaki concepts, etc. Believe I read all this stuff, not just the Bible, for truth's sake. Unfortunately I ran out of characters!



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


You don't have to pray for prosperity. Yah will take care of us to whatever end we are led to. You're not supposed to pray for selfish things. One messge Yeshua sends in the NT (and old) is that he dislikes selfish people. Imo it's disrespectful to treat him like he is a genie in a bottle, was saving us from eternal death not enough? He gave us everything we would ever need in life before he ascended.
edit on 17-7-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 





The Bible is right on the money that is the root of all evil. Jesus made no mention of the 'Church of Satan' because it would not exist.


The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Nicodemus had wealth, and Lazarus wasn't a pauper (he could afford a tomb) and Mary was not poor either she was the widow of a carpenter and his sons would have taken over the family business and carpenters were not poor, no builders were poor in those days, neither were fishermen. Fishing and building were lucrative businesses.
edit on 17-7-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


You can't. Christians are the the most difficifult to be made authentic Christians, of the fall down on your knees in repentance and then stand up in the tears of laughter and the extra laughter that wipes the tears from the eyes, variety.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by ahnggk
 


You can't. Christians are the the most difficifult to be made authentic Christians, of the fall down on your knees in repentance and then stand up in the tears of laughter and the extra laughter that wipes the tears from the eyes, variety.



And what is wrong with feeling one with the Messiah? Joy comes from feeling the connection of being close to him, we can feel him when he is present, that's not a feeling you will ever mistake. There are no words in the human language that can describe what it is like being in front of the King, but you will know when you are because your spirit gets a glimpse of his Glory and it will bring you to your knees.
edit on 18-7-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Nicodemus had wealth, and Lazarus wasn't a pauper (he could afford a tomb) and Mary was not poor either she was the widow of a carpenter and his sons would have taken over the family business and carpenters were not poor, no builders were poor in those days, neither were fishermen. Fishing and building were lucrative businesses.
edit on 17-7-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)


Thank you for your response. I agree with you about not treating God as a genie.

I agree with you on the love of money. And yes, fishing and carpentry are quite lucrative businesses... ...I live in NZ at the moment and truly they are!! We call carpenters 'tradesperson' here and to my financial standing, these people are rich, often they own multiple properties with posh-looking homes! You can have leisurely fishing here as hobby and make a decent killing at the end of the day. You can watch 'Deadly Catch' how full time fishermen make a killing and it's quite similar here in NZ in the larger scales.

It only proves and strengthens how Jesus and his disciples has neglected the pursuit of material wealth and possibly even hated it. They left their lucractive business at once to follow Jesus and Jesus mentioned that the Son of God has nowhere to sleep! Obvoiusly, Jesus has left the comforts of home it wasn't mentioned anywhere that he was being sustained by his parent's wealth. They solely depended on miracles and peoples contributions to preached the Gospel. They did not bring anything with them, not even knapsacks or even money. It's been made clear in the Bible

@Newageman


You can't. Christians are the the most difficifult to be made authentic Christians, of the fall down on your knees in repentance and then stand up in the tears of laughter and the extra laughter that wipes the tears from the eyes, variety.


Sad truth. I'm trying to win Christians who are quite close to me


False Doctrine innoculates them from the truth. If Flu is the truth, then the Flu Vaccine is the False Doctrine! I'm just trying to expand on what other preachers have told.

I'm starting to think now that the same half truth Christians we have now, may be the same Christians that crucified Jesus, only under a different label and different doctrine but same half-truth doctrine.

I still remember few years ago, when I brought out the subject of wealth(money) on Christians face to face and I got jumped!! I'm the youngest of the bunch and they told me that our local pastor and TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) has always taught, you can live a very good life on planet materially.

They are very much focused on the Biblical examples like King Solomon, Abraham, in other words, men who are rich. They are much focused on getting more wealthy and claim it will be a great testimony to non-Christians. If you base God's love and blessings on a person on superficial things like wealth is making a mockery of Jesus, his disciples and his message of truth! They keep missing or intentionally ignoring the fact that Jesus and his disciples lived and died in the most desperate manner!

It also brings a very wrong and deceptive message - that non-Christians are drawn into Christianity with a wrong motivation!! You can't accept Jesus and expect financial stability out of the deal at the back of your head at the same time!! You get saved and get into Christianity for salvation, but financial stability is definitely not part of the deal! That in faith, you have been saved by Jesus at the Cross, that you are changed and no longer the same creature, that Jesus and the truth is now your #1 passion, ever changing (repenting) and walking under God's will.

We must not give up! Even if it costed our careers, or even our lives. I think everyone should live in this manner. We only love spreading Conspiracy stories but not doing enough to fight it, even die for it!
edit on 19-7-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-7-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:53 AM
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So, now that you know a little about the theme of Abraham's wealth and how god was going to favor this one and that one, if they did this or that, one finds the mold was the "Creator gods" were into gold, slavery, and kill off the resistance.

One facton of the Ceator gods became more benevolent than the other, the dichotomy of Enlil and Enki, which is the difference between Abraham's "Yahweh" and Jesus' "The Father".

What does one expect, by those that follow Yahweh, to be nothing other than exploitive of others for material gains, which is what one finds when one includes the Creator god theme and sorts out what they wanted.


Sure, they brought along some interesting technology and everywhere they touched came things like water work canals and intensive agriculture that promoted large cities. It appears the gods goal was the accumlation of wealth, operations to feed the large work force that gave them the wealth, and power and control.


Does one really expect the Christians to break that mold, when that is the essence of what they are taugh in the Bible's words. There is a serious problem with the god that the Bible Narratives speak about, and it makes man follow in their footsteps for wealth and power.

Just look around and one will find this organixed churches theme that Jesus is Yahweh, which is all about this material creator god them that wanted slaves or workers to gain gold. All those that believe in Jesus now cast him in the role of Yahweh, which is the theme of the Sumerian god "Enlil" from the times of the Sumerian Creator gods. Enlil hated humanity, and craved power, even to kill.

Jesus theme on god was "The Father", which is "Enki" the savior of man from the floods and friend to Noah. But that still isn't much better as "Enki" was the genetic breeder that designed the worker class so the Creator gods could play and not work.


The only way to break that Bible mold on riches and wealth is go back deeper into history and one finds the theme of mother nature, the promordial mounds of the Earth's life slowly forming and the rule then becomes to live in harmony with nature. Then the themes of benevolence, stewardship, and life in a garden where we live in each other's care can again fluorish in place of those that want to mimic faked up god like riches.

Even Jesus didn't have things correct, and these issues of gods that were about exploitation lingered in his teaching via The Father theme. A few piece of silver nearly offed Jesus, and long before tons of gold amassed by Solomon's games for god, burned down the temple and set the games of dislike for all things created in that same cast of the Creator gods.

You get back to the issues of nature being god and one returns to themes of benevolence, stewardship, and living in each other's care.

Nothing else works better than the hole story of seeking the truth behind religion.


What this has done over the ages is to continue the cast system of the creator gods, so there are those with immense wealth and those with money make the rules. And there is one way to break that system and that is the way the Essene live at Mt. Carmel, where all wealth is shared equally. Then you don't have the kings and queens, with the blood liniage from the Throne of David, saying they have the right to rule, amass great wealth, and declair wars on those they don't cooperate with economic exploitation.

If there is anything about the evil of money, it comes from the have and have nots of money. When wealth is distributed to all, the evil subsides and people again learn to live in each other's care, to have benevolence toward others, and become good stewards of the ways of nature and the well being of all mankind.

But, that lesson can only be found by knowing the Annunaki History of what was the Creator gods, which makes all the Bible about worship of a false concept for god that sets the stage for End-Times, great wars, great devastation to take down those that followed the cast of the Creator gods.


edit on 19-7-2012 by MagnumOpus because: The real history



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


I don't know why or probably not surprised why Christians defend the concept of wealth did not change and keep using Old Testament scriptures to justify accumulation of wealth when in fact, a number of things changed when Jesus came to the world:

- Saved the animals by abolishing animal sacrifice
- Saved the Earth from over exploitation of resources by introducing a very lean lifestyle of self-denial - others before self (Note that Earth is conscious creature and cries out to God!)
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing abolished among Jews against other races/groups
- Stoning to death / death sentence to a number of sins / offences.
- And so on an so forth...

...and now how we must view material wealth or money according to Jesus, the pursuit of which:

- will lead to many perils, sorrows, and temptations
- lose the love of God
- ultimately cost you your salvation.

It is clearly stated in the New Testament on how you should treat material wealth. When Jesus said, you should even hate it makes a clear distinction against the Old Testament - no one rebuked King Solomon for being rich and keeping all/much of the riches to himself although he did acknowledge that all the things he accumulated is meaningless. But Jesus sent a rich man away crying!

Material wealth or money has only one good purpose according to the New Testament and it is the sustenance of preaching the Gospel to the world of the lost and suffering. Not one mention of using it to make your life easier... ...but helping spread the Gospel of Truth and salvation easier, yes.



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