So you think your an Atheist? Take my test...

reply to post by whyamIhere


No.

Never.

Nop not even while suffocating to death. The last 2min's was strange in it self, but that is another story

I was blown away by all the replies.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I learned that I am not the only person struggling with this.

Also, thanks for keeping the conversation civil.

That is pretty rare on this subject.

Originally posted by halfoldman
That crying out moment is troublesome for myself, because I'm acquainted with two main philosophies, and I cannot say which is the best.

I can navigate a post-modern and pantheistic view normally, but at times of crisis I flash between Krishna and Jesus intermittently.

I cannot even help it.

And that makes me wonder whether it's just a wiring of the brain.

From the view of some religions you have to be an atheist to all the others.
But did I ever try them or study them enough to disbelieve them, or did I just hear my culture's propaganda?

If I think of Krishna at the time of death, I'll be liberated from the ocean of birth and death.
So chanting Hare Krishna during times of crisis seems like a natural thing to do.
From a Hindu point of view, any good deity or expansion of Godhead will lead to some advancement in the next life.
But then, won't Jesus be angry and send me to hell - if the fundamentalist view of Jesus is true?
To Christians there is only one path, even between their many sects and churches.

The thing is I think this crisis religion is only comforting if you are an atheist to all beliefs but one.
If you can be Christian and be an atheist to all other faiths then you have surety.
But if you cry out to more than one Godhead, then I'm not sure - maybe then I shouldn't bother with any, but it's a reflex?

So perhaps I need to learn how to be a better atheist to all faiths but one.
But maybe it's not my path.
If I disbelieve one on a certain premise that premise would also make me disbelieve another.

So if you cry out to one faith then you are the perfect atheist to the other faiths.

Therefore, the best way to make a singular religion work after being exposed to many, is to choose one faith and deconstruct the others, and only through selective atheism can one find monotheistic religion.
So to be a good Christian (according to evangelical standards) is to learn good atheism when applied to other faiths.

If you're wrong, you'll still advance according to Krishna Consciousness (although you won't be liberated).
I suppose according to rival Christian sects and Islam you'll burn in hell for eternity.

I need a lot more atheism to find one faith.

edit on 10-7-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

Try and find the place where Jesus and Krishna are stuck in the same place you, under God. Try and find where they are one and the same. You have little faith and many rules.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by adjensen

 

If a staunt atheist were confronted by the living God, they would rather die and cease to exist than to face his presence.

Open-mindedness is one thing that they do not seem to possess.

Agnostic OTOH, while an intellectually honest position to take, is just too easy imho.

God is either everything or nothing, and there either is God, even as the living spirit of the universe, or no God and a meaningless and purposeless and indifferent universe.

But to argue about it, between atheists and believers or even mystics and gnostics, is utterly absurd, when you really think about it.

Which makes you wonder who the real dummies are?

Fantastic post again.

My take is that you can be both but not a mixture of either. You can see the universe in a materialist way with no unseen forces and it exists in a perfectly natural way, all be it spurred on by the belief built by the subjects unseen forces, or see Gods hand in everything which takes infinite courage, unless you live "in the moment"

Therefore a well rounded person has both beliefs at work simultaneous. The people who can't accept this point are living with God because the words speak only of one side (the devils side), wherein the possibility to turn away from God exists.

I look at the God said as Jesus' heaven.
I see the materialist side like a school room

The school room was there as a matter of faith with all possibilities in tact. It's somehow sacrilegious to talk about religion in this context. Where you learn that religion is senseless and not real, is where you loose the ability to train your mind on non-material things. They become senseless yet you are no closer to the inherent truths you think you have embraced. You are afraid because "you miss the point". What underlies this "point" is the other parts of existence that you don't know about and these are infinite. You'll find you have just placed yourself on an unmovable position and the universe is unfolding around you.

Of course you have to be pretty confused to be in that position, and I have faith that life will grant you a richer picture.

I don't believe in a creator/biblical God at all, and I class myself as an atheist, for want of a better word. The problem is that Atheism seems to have, ironically, become a "religion" of anti-religiousness, where "faith" is in a science textbook and all else is discounted. To me that is no different to having faith in a religious document and discounting all else, so I don't really like to call myself that, because I try to be open minded and respectful of other people's beliefs. Even though I do sometimes ask myself how intelligent people can believe this story, I would never say it to somebody who I knew had faith.

Remember - "Science" is only as good as our understanding at the time. A perfect example of this would be a conversation I had with my girlfriend recently about the "water into wine" miracle. She asked how I knew that, somewhere out in space there was not a "type of rock" (sic) that would do this. I started talking about the periodic table and hydrocarbons and types of reaction etc. but she has no interest in chemistry, and just kept saying "how do you know?" to which my answer was. "It's on the periodic table, so it must be true." Now< i don't want this to throw the thread off topic by starting a debate on the science and the study behind the periodic table; I just wanted to make the point that in that case, I was being "blinded" by my total faith in the science, and sounded just like the religious people who I have spoken to saying "It's in this book, it must be true" and not accepting the possibility that there is more to it.

Back on track, even though I do consider myself an Atheist, yes, there have been times where I've asked/prayed to God, saying, "if you are there, help me out with this...." Sometimes things work out, sometimes not, but I think that's just the gamble of life rather than divine intervention. However, to take up on some other points made, as I have been brought up in essentially a Christian background in UK, is it natural to look to a Christian God to help when things go wrong? If I had been brought up in a Hindu community, would I, although Atheist, be asking Ganesh for help, becasue that is what I had seen my whole life?

reply to post by whyamIhere


Yes, and oddly enough I got an answer every time, though it could be described as more of an spiritual intuition which I picked up on which then altered my feelings .

I have shaken my fist at god, and screamed," if you are there you NEED to show me NOW". and it happened..an answer ..right then ..in the form of a spiritual answer..like a father wrapping his arms around an angry hurting child, and saying "let it out, I understand what you are going through."

Another time that sticks out in my mind,and made an impression on my heart was when i was going through an especially difficult time parenting a teenager. So many adults in the field I worked in at the time, put so much emphasis on the parent being responsible for a kids behavior, and after reading books, and going to a counselor, I was at my wits end...and one day I just sort of broke down..and said to God aloud "How can you expect us to get our children to listen and obey, when you can't get your children to listen and obey and you are GOD?"

Stupid thing to say, I know, but immediately after I said, I felt this incredibly sorrowful feeling sweep over me, like I was feeling Gods sorrow, and he was telling me spiritually that it was the gift of free will, and to be patient, and just keep loving, and carry the sorrow, like He carries His. My son turned out to be a young man I am proud of in many ways, so there was wisdom in that feeling, or spiritual answer, as well as solace.

Those are just a few times I called out to God, and I can't even say they were prayers, but they were straight from my heart, even in the anger and hurt, and there was always some sort of solace after it.

great thread idea OP, thanks for putting it out there.

You said it yourself is it better to be wise and unhappy or ignorant and happy.Most say they believe and that is it.They dont want to question anything just in case their faith might be destroyed.If you question things it just leads to more questions and on and on.So there is no definitive answer because no one really knows.Better to know yourself, accept yourself. meditation does this and brings on an inner peace.You may be searching instead of just saying you are an atheist because of religion.It is organized religion that makes people sick of religion.Hope you find the peace you are looking for.

I don't think it. I know it. Another thread for religion trolling. When will you bible thumpers understand, we don't beleive in God. I have never understood when one talks to God it's called praying, When God talks back, it's a mental illness......Go figure. Being an atheist means. We don't have to suspend reality as we know it in order for us to beleive in it. I do not need an imaginary friend to help and guide me thru my life. I have a big ole brain, and know how to use it.

If you beleive in God. Why do you all try to attack atheist's. If there is a God, he made us this way, so what's the problem. We are part of his plan too. Arent we?

First off I will say that I am at the very least an agnostic...probably more of an atheist but there can be no proof completely either way. I think that the god of the Bible, Torah and the Koran that has been represented to us paints an awfully inconsistent, incredibly fallible and self centered picture and if there is indeed a "god" it is so far out of our realm of understanding that we really can have no way to know if it is really there.

...anyway to answer the OP. I was 10 and my father had just died after a pretty bad 2 year battle with a brain tumor. I sat by myself and asked "God" why? My father was very active in the church (we were Protestants), as was my whole family. My father helped build our church, sat on the board of trustees, he prayed before every meal and was just a very devoted Christian. My church prayed and prayed for him, they layed hands on him had special services, yet "God" "took" him anyway. Well I never received an answer. At that time I was definitely a believer but that was the beginning of my disbelief I guess. I never could figure out what good my father's death served. My family isn't any closer because of it, none of my brothers or my mother are religious at all anymore. I really can't think of a single good thing that came as a result of my father passing on. Mind you I am not angry with "God", I honestly do not believe that he or Thor, Zeus, Osiris or any of the others exist. Please to tell me that no one knows God's plan, it's a BS statement and a crutch Christian use to explain unanswered prayer.

reply to post by whyamIhere
I prayed to God and asked for his help and forgiveness numerous times... then my grandmother died of cancer, my wife got killed by a drunk driver, and Casey Anthony escaped conviction of killing her own daughter (true stories).

So I guess by all these things he is just testing my faith by unfairly taking away two of the most important people in my life and freeing a murdering mother.. what a great God.

ETA: I'm not mad at something that doesn't exist.. so I don't believe in God because of my own experiences in life, not out of spite.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
I don't think it. I know it. Another thread for religion trolling. When will you bible thumpers understand, we don't beleive in God. I have never understood when one talks to God it's called praying, When God talks back, it's a mental illness......Go figure. Being an atheist means. We don't have to suspend reality as we know it in order for us to beleive in it. I do not need an imaginary friend to help and guide me thru my life. I have a big ole brain, and know how to use it.

If you beleive in God. Why do you all try to attack atheist's. If there is a God, he made us this way, so what's the problem. We are part of his plan too. Arent we?

Then go ahead and use it, no one is stopping you.

who is attacking atheists?

The op just told a story, and asked some questions?

It could have been a person who believed in God relating how he became an atheist , and asked questions about that.

No one is pointing fingers at you, feel free to go with what you have experienced, and what your instincts tell you.

I personally, was just relating a few of mine.

Call me crazy, thats ok, but they were real enough to me, to matter to me.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds

The op just told a story, and asked some questions? It could have been a person who believed in God relating how he became an atheist , and asked questions about that. No one is pointing fingers at you, feel free to go with what you have experienced, and what your instincts tell you. I personally, was just relating a few of mine. Call me crazy, thats ok, but they were real enough to me, to matter to me.

Thanks for relating your experience.

When I wrote this OP I expected all sorts of replies.

This is ATS where we all have strong opinions.

I am fascinated at the strong feelings on both sides.

I really hope my OP did not point a finger at anyone.

reply to post by whyamIhere


No. You did not point a finger at me. You pointed it at all atheist's. No one is an atheist at birth, we have to grow and learn and try to understand and then we as atheist's come to our decision . So I would say there was a time when every atheist on the planet envoked the name of God, Prior to coming to our sense's and realizing it's a fantasy. It's as a personal decision as believeing in God. We know we will be looked at like "lost souls" and shunned by the ones who are over zealous with the gospel.

If I offended you please accept my sincere apology, As that was not my intentions. There's good and bad on both sides of this issue. That I'm sure we agree on. See you on the boards & have a great day.

reply to post by whyamIhere


I like your avatar. Warren Oates was a very underated actor, that's a scene from Meatballs isnt it? Sorry for the off topic post.

How can you be sure that your God out of over 3000+ gods that have been prayed to or worshiped is the right one?

I would like to mention that I do not believe in a theistic god, but I am not an atheist. I guess you can say that I lean slightly toward agnosticism because I do not believe in one or many deities, yet I have not explicitly rejected such a belief. However, I do have faith that we are not just a corporeal body. Although, when it comes to speculating what we are apart from this existence I find it futile to ponder such things without evidence.

It also depends on how you define God. If you say God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving I would consider myself an atheist towards that definition of God. Because how can an all-loving god allow people to suffer from natural disasters?

"If a God made this world then I would not like to be the God, its misery and distress would break my heart." - Arthur Schopenhauer

Now if you consider God to be the creative forces or the whole universe itself than I would be a theist in that aspect. Because it would be hard to deny that creative forces or the whole universe itself exists.

I would also like to point out that there are two different types of atheists strong and weak atheists:

"Strong Atheist," or "Positive Atheist," or "Hard Atheist" to refer to a person who asserts that no deity exists.

"Weak Atheist," "Negative Atheist," "Soft Atheist," "Skeptical Atheist" to refer to a person who simply has no belief in a deity because there are currently no rational grounds that support his/her/their existence.

source

I think most theists believe that all atheists are hard atheists, which is simply not true.

To the theists that believe God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and all-loving,

I have a challenge for you to watch the whole YouTube series of "Why I am no longer a Christian" and come out of it without questioning your faith.

No, I never did.

As for "trolling" me, I don't care what you believe. You can be an atheist like me, or a Jew or a fundamentalist Christian. Doesn't matter a shred to me.

The only time my hackles go up is when religious types try to cram their beliefs into my countries laws.

But behind closed doors? Pray your fool head off.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

No. You did not point a finger at me. You pointed it at all atheist's. No one is an atheist at birth, we have to grow and learn and try to understand and then we as atheist's come to our decision . So I would say there was a time when every atheist on the planet envoked the name of God, Prior to coming to our sense's and realizing it's a fantasy. It's as a personal decision as believeing in God. We know we will be looked at like "lost souls" and shunned by the ones who are over zealous with the gospel.

If I offended you please accept my sincere apology, As that was not my intentions. There's good and bad on both sides of this issue. That I'm sure we agree on. See you on the boards & have a great day.

You certainly did not offend me.

I was trying to relate my personal search. I am still searching. I like all points of view.

I am sorry if you felt attacked by my OP. It's difficult to write anything on this subject.

I do not pretend to have the answer. But, it does not stop me from searching.

You expressed your feelings with class and respect.

Oh, My avatar is Sgt.Hulka (from my favorite movie Stripes).

Have a great day...

Originally posted by whyamIhere
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

The op just told a story, and asked some questions? It could have been a person who believed in God relating how he became an atheist , and asked questions about that. No one is pointing fingers at you, feel free to go with what you have experienced, and what your instincts tell you. I personally, was just relating a few of mine. Call me crazy, thats ok, but they were real enough to me, to matter to me.

Thanks for relating your experience.

When I wrote this OP I expected all sorts of replies.

This is ATS where we all have strong opinions.

I am fascinated at the strong feelings on both sides.

I really hope my OP did not point a finger at anyone.

Perhaps I should have kept my opinion to myself, but I just think he saw it come off the wrong way,and I've been guilty of the same. I hope I didn't sound too offensive.

I am coming to the conclusion that faith is a very personal experience, and one where I need to trust that if there is a God and he wants to make himself known, he will, when and where he chooses, after all if he is real, he does get to call the shots, on the when and where and how, or at least wait for the invitation.

I don't have all the answers with certainty, and much like you, still have a few questions, but I can only search for myself, and be happy with what I feel I have been shown, in the understanding that I have been given. I am learning that more and more with each passing day , especially being on ATS.

Originally posted by jtap66
No, I never did.

As for "trolling" me, I don't care what you believe. You can be an atheist like me, or a Jew or a fundamentalist Christian. Doesn't matter a shred to me.

The only time my hackles go up is when religious types try to cram their beliefs into my countries laws.

But behind closed doors? Pray your fool head off.

I can understand totally where you are coming from, because I'd feel the same way if some religious believers of a different faith were totally in charge , and in some ways I think its come to that.

But there is one problem, and the basis of religion is morality,and ethics, and what is the right way to try and treat others, in all religions!

Supposedly the basis of the government is to serve the people, by the people, for the people, so it gets really difficult to pull the two apart, without those with religious beliefs feeling like their views are left out, and only people who don't have a religion get to make up the laws.

Then we get the "I'm sick of the ones who have no religious beliefs getting to make all the choices, and cramming how they see we should govern down our throats".

*sighs* I think we are doing our best to come to a happy medium , and we've come a long way, so lets be grateful for small steps, without all the chaos and bloodshed .