OWS - Occupy Philly on 4th of July

Originally posted by Kali74
Eat a few more twinkies, apparently they missed some brain cells. ...

.... says the person who calls the dippy-hippy occupoopers 'brothers and sisters' ... and refuses to acknowledge the crime that comes with OWS .. and refuses to acknowledge the harm done to small business by OWS ... funny

Don't even try the assumption of intellectual superiority with me..

If the shoe fits .. and with you it definately fits.

you're the one that can't handle freedom and liberty.

Riiiight. Because I tell the truth that OWS in Philly is obnoxious and USELESS and should be in DC where it can do some good ... that somehow means I can't handle freedom and liberty. That's absurd. Keep talking though ... you make my point fantastically about how OWS in Philly isn't thought out at all.

You're the sheep that needs a nanny state, not me.

And yet you are the one that is helping usher it in and you are the one that will suffer from it.
Irony. Or Karma. Either way ... you own it.

Originally posted by beezzer
What are they protesting?

Bad Philly cheese steaks at the Burse Building in Independence Mall.
Seriously .. 1500+ of them in that tiny mall, with all the families and the parade ...
when the corruption is in DC ... It'll do no good; DC won't see it or feel it;
and all they'll do is tick off families who want to buy balloons and watch the parade
with their kids.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Gathering where Liberty was born to discuss and problem solve how Liberty is being chewed away and ways to get it back, couldn't possibly make sense to you because you're the whiner type that can't handle being in public where there could be anyone that you disagree with... the exact type that welcomes loss of Liberty in exchange for comfort and safety.

Perhaps you would tell our forefathers the same? A lot of people back then were perfectly comfortable with being a British Colony, they condemned the inconvenience the revolutionaries brought too. I think you would find good company among them.

reply to post by FlyersFan


They aren't going to be in the mall, learn to read.
You're throwing a hissy fit over absolutely nothing.

reply to post by Kali74

blah blah blah attempted insults and still missing the point.
Spoon feeding .. yet again ...

- Occupy 4th of July in Philly ... it does no good. The problem is in DC.
- DC is jvery happy with Occupy Philly because it means OWS aren't in DC bugging them.
- Occupy has a history of theft and crime and sexual assualt, and of pooping and peeing everywhere.
- Occupy hurts small business'.
- 1500+ Occupiers in Independence Mall, along with all the families and the parade? Really? Have you ever been there? We go all the time. With the heat index at 100 degrees on Wednesday and all those people and all those occupiers who obviously can't control themselves (as we've seen by the lack of self control by them on this thread) ... it's not only going to be obnoxious but it's going to be a major turnoff to the families who the occupiers are supposed to be winning over.

Originally posted by Kali74
They aren't going to be in the mall, learn to read.

Backatchya.

WSJ - National Occupy Gathering set for 4th of July in Philly

Occupy groups from across the country are headed to Philadelphia for a national gathering on Independence Mall,

Now while you are re-reading that ... how about you go back and actually read about the crime, the theft, the sexual assaults, and how the OWS folks poop and pee everywhere. Mix that with 100 degree temps and a zillion other people with families .. and try to tell us again how this is going to turn the American people on to the 'message' (whatever it may be) of OWS.

I realize that those that back OWS .. the big unions (with their $$$ and agenda) and Geoge Soros (and his $$$ and agenda) .. won't be happy if OWS doesn't occupy Philly for 4th of July. But perhaps some of those OWS'ers will wake the hell up and realize that alienating people in Philly on the 4th isn't the thing to do. DC is the place to be. Go annoy the people that really should be ... the politicians in DC.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Why don't you go to the sources? There's plenty of video out there that reveals the truth vs what corporate media tells you. It doesn't register in your brain at all that corporate owned news papers or television news would paint them in a negative light because part of what Occupy stands against is Corporations and the disproportional amount of power they have in our government? It doesn't register in your mind at all that because Corporations, Banks etc... have a disproportional amount of power that government would make it as difficult as possible to protest such? Haven't you ever heard of COINTELPRO? Didn't you hear the stories about FOX News reporters dropping drug paraphernalia to take pictures of? Didn't hear about the women going to police standing nearby reporting sexual assaults and being told to take up with their GA's? You are incredibly sheltered and naive.

Also, try employing just a teeny bit of critical thought... on the 4th they will be gathering to hold a discussion not walking, protesting, or marching among the crowd.
Occupy National Gathering, straight from their own mouths.

In doing some pondering on this subject for the majority of the morning... I have come up with some questions/comments.

1. Even according to your own source on this, FlyersFan, it states that this particular group was set to come in on Saturday, June 30 and end on July 5th when there is a planned march to Wall Street. Ok, you've only singled out the 4th, which would be the day that you and many other families and individuals would be there. Fair enough, however, if you were so concerned with the consuming of illegal substances, perhaps assults of various kinds, theft and (because you mention this several times)... 'pooping and peeing' all over the place, I question then why just be up in arms over this behavior on the 4th? Why not for the entire time? Why is it not stated in the OP that this gathering encompasses a chunk of time and not just the 4th? Is it because it's OK to inconvenience others who may be visiting the Mall on the other days, but not OK to inconvenience you on the date you (and others)planned on being there? Makes one wonder because if they are so inclined to this kind of debauchery on the 4th I would think the concern would be there for the entire time they are gathered.

This request is not meant to be flippant or confrontational, because the truth is YOU live there. Do you have any recent local news articles (recent as in since June 30, 2012) you can link to that states that this gathering thus far has caused any harm? Violence? Theft? Assults? Public display of disguting behavior like defecating in public? Personally, I was unable to find any but as I said YOU live there. Thanks in advance for any credible news sources on this.

2. You've stated ad nauseum that this gathering will 'hurt small businesses", even provided a link to blog entry (which is some guys opinion piece with no hard facts or figures) that links to a NY Times article that states this:

The barricades that were removed had lined Wall Street for six weeks, and businesses had blamed them for a decline in foot traffic.

NY Times Sourced Article Note that the "them" in the above sentence refers to the barricades and not the OWS protesters. Now, who sets up the barricades? Protesters themselves?? Hmmm, no.. I believe that would be the city workers under the direction of higher ups.

Now, I will conceed that businesses may suffer negative economic impact due to the protests, but that impact is short lived. Indeed, the very same person who's blog entry you linked to as proof of your claims, on June 18 of this year, posted a very informative chart done by Gallup on what the real major factors are that threaten small business. This chart is made up from the answers by small business owners, and if my reading comprehension skills are on point.. OWS protests are not even on the list: Why Government may be the Biggest Challenge Facing Small Businesses

3. Another point to be made on the point of your 'care and concern' for the small businesses... are you under the impression that small businesses do not exsist in Washington, DC? If you cared so much about small businesses in this country you would be able to recognize that IF an OWS gathering hurts small businesses in Philly, it will do the same thing in Washington, DC. But it's OK for small businesses to suffer in DC... because it's not Philly.... and does not directly impact you. Not your backyard, no worries...as long as folks in Philly can get to their fav. cheesesteak joint to enjoy lunch who cares about the DC resident who may not be able to enjoy a nice refreshing beverage at the local cafe. Nice. National and global thinking at it's finest.

I recognize your right to hold the opinions you do, although your opinion and mine differ greatly.. especially on this topic it seems. However, you give the impression that you are willing to take away other's right to peacefully gather in protest at their chosen location simply because it's something you don't like.. hate..dispise..whatever and you think it would be better suited at a different location. Fair enough, your right to feel that way. Just don't be surprised should there ever be a topic/issue that you feel so strongly about it finds you in the street in protest and others try to shuffle you off somewhere where they don't have to look at some 'dippy hippy', heathen, violent, dirty theif that dares to try to take a stand. Now, I'm sure you are none of those things.... are you so certain all of the people gathering in the mall are? Think about it.

I support Occupy Wall st.. More Americans should get informed on how consumerism is not only shallow and materialistic, but it is also destroying our environment and economy. Why did all this bail out goto big business? Why not use that bail out money for local business that would strengthen the local community economy? Or even give that bail out money to the people and let them vote by what they spend the money on.

Their are so many better more sustainable, ethical, constitutional, and moral ways for our society to function. Instead who ever has the most money decides how our society operates. These corporate bully's push all the local business out of town. They take most of the money spent in these box stores out of town. Most of the voice of the people have been drowned out by big money.

How dare you say these occupy wall st. protesters are an inconveniences for you. If anything they are out their getting harassed and beat by police for standing up for your constitutional rights. The 4th of July is a symbol of our independence. Today it is hijacked by consumerism just like all other holidays. The 4th of July is now for sale. But for some people that is unacceptable. It is a reminder that freedom is not for sale.

What it comes down to is that we are not really all that free. We have become dependent on a system for food, water, energy, and shelter. When you are free you will be a producer of these. These are basic human needs yet most people are so caught up in the system they can't even grow their own food or enjoy nature.

It is time we take back our government and use it to protect the rights of the people. It is time we stir things up. People need to wake up from their day to day trance and see whats going on around them. It is unacceptable that we have to go out and protest for what should seem common sense. Where is the unification any more? Thought it was the United States not the Corporate States of America??? That is what it seems like when money has more of an influence then the logical and even ethical and moral thing to do.

Just because you haven't experienced poverty or homelessness does not mean it should continue to happen. Occupy Wall St. is the voice for those without one. The people who have slipped through the cracks. The slaves to debt or victims of environment. The people how have been hurt and abused by this inhumane consumerism. Whats it going to be comfort for a day or a message that is hard to listen to but is a whole lot more true than what we have been told to believe.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

A protest in DC makes sense. A protest in Philly on the 4th does not.

The Constitution was written in Philadelphia State House

The Constitution of the United States of America is signed by 38 of 41 delegates present at the conclusion of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia.

People don't know their history and that is why we are f$%^ed

The whole occupy movement has done next to nothing in the way of changing politics in America. They didn't take their energy and resources to elect candidates, like the Tea Party did. They would rather play the "rage against the machine" card then complain that they haven't been able to do anything because of the "man". I bet most who attended an OWS event won't even vote in this election.

Originally posted by pavil
The whole occupy movement has done next to nothing in the way of changing politics in America. They didn't take their energy and resources to elect candidates, like the Tea Party did. They would rather play the "rage against the machine" card then complain that they haven't been able to do anything because of the "man". I bet most who attended an OWS event won't even vote in this election.

Sounds like an opinion and assumption. I heard you'll get far with them.

reply to post by GareyGaia


Nope, reality. What big thing has OWS done/changed?

reply to post by pavil


With the failure of news outlets to embed themselves in protests, occupiers have relied on and popularized livestreaming, real-time video broadcasting technology.

This challenges the MSM, which if you think about it... getting away from the MSM wold go a long way to correcting many ills in our society.

In many ways Occupy takes it upon itself to do what our government fails to do.

Encampments across the country have fed and clothed local homeless populations despite scant resources.

Following a coordinated nation-wide series of actions against ALEC (the American Legislative Exchange Council), a number of their corporate sponsors and legislators dropped their support faster than a sack of potatoes.

Alternative Banking, an Occupy Wall Street sub-committee, has created a rich, alternative source for bank-related information.

Occupy the Farm and Occupy Berkeley have created a farm from vacant land, allowing previously unused space to be accessible and beneficial to the local community.

In December 2011, Occupy the Vote DC and 4 principle hungerstrikers (accompanied by about 40 'solidarity strikers' ) brought national attention to the fact that the District of Columbia and its 618,000 residents have no representation in Congress, budget autonomy, or legislative autonomy. By comparison, Wyoming's population is about 568,000. Yay democracy.

Occupy Providence struck a deal with the city to open a homeless shelter during the winter that would also provide social services.

Occupy Our Homes, a national coalition of Occupy-affiliated groups, has stopped numerous illegal foreclosures across the country.

Protesters have shined a grim spotlight on the militarization of local police forces.

Occupy the SEC submitted a 325-page letter to the SEC, FDIC, the Federal Reserve and the OCC, to comment on the notice of proposed rulemaking for the Volcker Rule. In their comment letter, they answered 244 out of 395 questions asked by the Agencies.

And maybe the most important of all...
According to a Pew Research Poll, about two-thirds of Americans now believe there are “strong conflicts” between rich and poor in the United States -- compared to just half in 2009. That's important.

What the heck has Occupy done so far?

Originally posted by Kali74
Why don't you go to the sources? Also, try employing just a teeny bit of critical thought...

Backatchya (again). You do realize that the big money/big agenda left wing unions and the big money/big agenda Soros is pumping out B.S. stories to try to cover the truth of the situation about OWS, don't you? Oh .. you don't. How about you try employing just a teeny bit of critical thought ...

ON TOPIC -
As I said ... Occupy Philly ... not good. Useless. Occupy DC ... that's where it should be.

Originally posted by MyMindIsMyOwn
I question then why just be up in arms over this behavior on the 4th? Why not for the entire time?

Because that's the date that the city is expecting a million visitors on. So that's the date most focused on. You are right ... it's obnoxious and uselss on any date during the week. The 4th of july has it's own special logistics problems.

Do you have any recent local news articles

Haven't looked for any. Right now the news is especially discussing the heat and the storm damage.

You've stated ad nauseum that this gathering will 'hurt small businesses",

Because certain people refuse to acknowledge this fact.

Now, who sets up the barricades? Protesters themselves?? Hmmm, no.. I believe that would be the city workers under the direction of higher ups.

And why does the city have to set up barricades? Because of the behavior of the protesters.
It goes right back to them.

If you cared so much about small businesses in this country you would be able to recognize that IF an OWS gathering hurts small businesses in Philly, it will do the same thing in Washington, DC.

The National Mall has much more room then the Independence Mall in Philly. It could handle 1500+ people and it's not having a parade at the same time as the expected OWS crowd. And let me repeat ... OWS does no good in Philly. The politicians in DC are probably very glad they aren't in DC bugging them. The only way anything good could come of it is to be in DC bugging the heck out of the politicians .. not bugging the heck out of families in Philly just wanting to see a parade and fireworks with their kids.

Originally posted by zroth
The Constitution was written in Philadelphia State House The Constitution of the United States of America is signed by 38 of 41 delegates present at the conclusion of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. People don't know their history and that is why we are f$%^ed

I minored in History in college. History is irrelevant to this discussion. What is going on NOW is what is important. Protesting in a place that history happened 250 years ago .. that doesn't change things NOW. NOW laws are made in DC. NOW things are happening in DC that change the course of America.

Originally posted by pavil

Nope, reality. What big thing has OWS done/changed?

Well, while I am not as well versed in the overall movement as Kali74 is, I can at least attest to the fact that Occupy Buffalo (NY) has done something that I feel is worth merit and mention here.

The City of Buffalo is withdrawing $45 million from JPMorgan Chase and depositing the money with First Niagara Financial Group, City Comptroller Mark J.F. Schroeder announced Wednesday.

The Buffalo Sewer Authority funding will earn 0.30 percent interest, more than the 0.25 percent interest rate it had been getting with JPMorgan, Schroeder said in a written statement.

The move follows concerns about JPMorgan raised with the Common Council by members of the Occupy Buffalo movement, who asked that the city withdraw its deposits from the institution

City is transferring $45 Million from JP Morgan Chase to First Niagara - Buffalo News

The article also goes on to state:

"Not only will the funds earn more interest with First Niagara, a major local employer headquartered in Buffalo, but it also sends a crystal-clear message to JPMorgan Chase that the City of Buffalo is not happy with their business practices," Schroeder said.

(Same source article as above)

Now, on a national scale this may not seem like any big deal, but locally it is. Perhaps, if more cooperation between local OWS movements and their city councils went a little more like this... some real change WOULD actually happen. Being the catalyst for a change like this is not so bad for a bunch of folks who are labeled in this thread as "dippy hippies". If the hippies can get this ball rolling, kinda makes you wonder what might happen if we all stopped the generalizations and name calling and got down to business combining forces. Just sayin'. *shrug*

I won't expect much from this. The supporters are already turning up by the Dozens and the Head OWS Honcho's in New York are opposed to this gathering in Philly.

The New York General Assembly is opposed ...

Try not to laugh as hard as I did when I read this

Occupy Wall Street tells The Associated Press that a national conference being planned in Philadelphia this summer was not approved by its General Assembly, meaning the group does not endorse it.

On Tuesday, we reported that the "The 99% Declaration," an Occupy Wall Street working group, was planning a meeting of a "National General Assembly," made up of 876 delegates — a man and woman from each Congressional district. On July 4 in Philadelphia, the group would draft and ratify a set of grievances, which would then be sent to the three branches of the U.S. government.

Draft and ratify a set of grievances?? How are they going to narrow down their ever growing list of hundreds of grievances??

Oye! So, the Philly GA rejected this 99% declaration too?? What gives you bunch of stooges??

he Occupy Wall Street Press Relations Working Group said that not only does OWS not endorse the 99% Declaration, but that it was flat out rejected by the Philadelphia General Assembly and the declaration "generated more controversy than consensus" at the New York General Assembly.

"The group's plans blatantly contradict OWS' Statement of Autonomy, as passed by the General Assembly at Occupy Wall Street," the statement reads.

The Statement of Autonomy declares that OWS is "party-less, leaderless, by the people and for the people." It invites people to "speak with us, not for us." But also says that any statement released outside of the movement's official website, "should be considered independent of Occupy Wall Street."

Who's in charge here?? Talk amongst yourselves..

www.npr.org...

General Assembly? Leadership?

Hey, lets see who these people are!!

reply to post by FlyersFan


Your argument is completely illegitimate and you can't even figure out why. There is not going to be any protesting or marching or any such by Occupy at the Independence Mall on the July 4th, so the inconvenience is what, 1500 additional people in the vicinity?

Perhaps you would like to barricade the event and purchase tickets to the parade and fireworks, that way number can be controlled? But of course crowd numbers isn't your issue, is it? You just want certain people to not attend so that you won't be personally offended by freedom and liberty.

You've stated that the Tea Party shouldn't attend, that Occupy shouldn't attend, so just who is on your personal access to a public event list?

You realize that many different groups attend 4th of July celebrations all over the country right? In Boston, I go every year... I see tables and booths set up for this thing or that, do you know what people with common sense do when they pass by a booth hosted by a group they don't agree with?

Walk by them.

There's going to be so many people there, I doubt you'll even find them.