Obamacare amounts to slavery...

Originally posted by Seraph Sephiroth
Topics like this make people here in the UK laugh. There's nothing wrong with helping people America!

I know! As an American, I look around at all these people losing their minds over this. They are enraged by the droves. They don't want to have to care for anyone else but themselves. To hell with everyone right? The attitude in this country is disgusting. I'll never forget last summer when people were going insane at town hall meetings and showing up with their guns, OVER HEALTH CARE.

BUT they'll sit on their behind while TSA molests everyone in the air ports. makes sense doesn't it??

As an American, who is under 26 and recently was able to obtain healthcare for the first time in my life, I don't understand the slavery statement.

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
reply to post by Masterjaden

 

OK, you ready?

Originally posted by Masterjaden
I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Voting is a Right in the US. Although the GOP is trying to change that, but different topic.

So when someone goes to vote, they are assisted or supported by the people who are working the polling place... getting the ballot, getting it recorded, etc.

So every time someone votes, according to you, they are enforcing slavery on the part of the people working the voting place.

There are no "rights in the US" - there are only rights. Anything that is a right in the US is also a right anywhere else in the universe. If it is only a "right in the US", it's not a right at all, it's a privilege, something granted by a government - in that case, the US Government.

Originally posted by narwahl

Originally posted by Masterjaden
I came upon an interesting thought while discussing Obamacare in another forum I frequent where people were trying to claim that healthcare is a right...

I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Anyone who advocates that healthcare is a right, advocates for slavery.

The hypocratic oath does not infer forced servitude. It is a man's personal honor to keep their word. The Doctor still must have the choice whether to do so or not. Non action on the part of the doctor does NOT amount to murder.

Jaden

edit on 1-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)

Public school teachers are forced to educate every child that is in their class
Police is forced to try to solve any crime that comes to their attention.
Judges are forced to judge any case that comes before their bench.
Are they all slaves too?

None of those things are rights - they are services, privileges provided by a government. You live in a privileged society, mistaking that as a "right".

Originally posted by Maxatoria
Since the right to bear arms is a right in America any person working in the arms business is a slave would be analogous to ron pauls doctors getting pulled out of bed at gunpoint in that if you're a gunsmith you can be dragged out of bed and expected to fix a firearm just the same as a doctor can be expected to treat a patient?

Bearing arms is a right everywhere in the universe. The failure of a people to exercise that right does not negate it, It's still there, people just fail to exercise it. Those people working in that industry are not enslaved - they are free to come and go at any time. if they all go, your right to be armed devolves to yourself, and arming yourself. People have armed themselves ever since there have been people. The right to do so not only predates the US, it predates ALL governments.

The right to be armed is not dependent on governmental pleasure or factory workers.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by Masterjaden

 

Well in the UK you do have a right as everyone pays tax for a National Health Service (NHS). Thank # I don't have to put up with people like you as pretty much everyone in the UK understands the logic of this system, for the good of society as a whole. By the way Obamacare seems pretty useless to me as it does not advance toward this kind of system, just enriches the insurance industry and doctors.

if the government provides it, it's not a right. What the government gives, the government can also take away, meaning it is a privilege.

I can imagine you have some kind of insurance plan (courtesy of your parents) so you're alrite Jack. Everyone else can go die right?

I have no insurance plan of any sort, nor will I have one. When my time comes, I will die without a doubt, and so will everyone else, so yes, "everyone else can go die" same as me. We all will some day, anyhow, insurance or not. The insurance plan has not been underwritten that guarantees immortality.

Scum.

Thank you. Coming from the likes of you, I will wear that label as a badge of honor.

Originally posted by Masterjaden
I came upon an interesting thought while discussing Obamacare in another forum I frequent where people were trying to claim that healthcare is a right...

I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Anyone who advocates that healthcare is a right, advocates for slavery.

The hypocratic oath does not infer forced servitude. It is a man's personal honor to keep their word. The Doctor still must have the choice whether to do so or not. Non action on the part of the doctor does NOT amount to murder.

Jaden

edit on 1-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)

Sorry, but this is tortured logic and a bunch of total rubbish. The real "slaves" are the ones who already have health insurance. Their premiums are much higher than necessary because of the people who don't buy insurance, then need serious health care. That both drives up the cost of health care and government spending.

Using your level of logic, virtually EVERYTHING is slavery. Let's take the Bush Tax Cuts. The rich get a HUGE cut; the middle class and poor hardly anything. Therefor, the middle class is forced to work to provide extra income for the rich. Or how about DEFENSE SPENDING? People are forced to work to provide a bloated, wasteful budget for a military far beyond what we need for defense of the country to benefit an enormous military-industrial complex. See? It's all subjective.

If Obamacare is slavery, then so is virtually everything provided by the federal government, which we pay taxes for. There is no "forced" servitude. Get back in touch with reality. It's tin foil hat reasoning like yours that has been dragging this country downhill for the last 30 years, and it's getting worse. America has gotten SO INTELLECTUALLY LAZY that emotion and simplicity guide our decision making. We simply are no longer willing to put in the time to really understand, and your post is a classic example.

"Obamacare is slavery?" Sorry. I'm with the UK guy. It's laughable, illogical gibberish.

Obamacare amounts to slavery

Yep. It's definately another step in the direction of slavery to a nanny state.
They are turning the heat up slowly so that people won't notice that they are boiling in the pot.
The O-Bots sing 'yes we can' as they are branded and enslaved.
And they drag the rest of us down into slavery to the state with them.

Warning .. the heat is being turned up slowly so you won't notice.
Wake the hell up, America!!

ETA .. Healthcare is not a right .. it's a COMMODITY.
That's just the truth of it.

Originally posted by habitforming

I am forced to pay for the people that cannot and do not pay as it is. This changes that. I want that changed.

Changed? From what to what? Changed from you paying their freight to.... you paying their freight?

The only way off that hamster wheel is to simply stop participating in that "health care" system.

Like me.

I don't pay for either "them" or "me" because I don't indulge in that system. No legislation ever written is going to change that.

Originally posted by Masterjaden
I came upon an interesting thought while discussing Obamacare in another forum I frequent where people were trying to claim that healthcare is a right...

I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Anyone who advocates that healthcare is a right, advocates for slavery.

The hypocratic oath does not infer forced servitude. It is a man's personal honor to keep their word. The Doctor still must have the choice whether to do so or not. Non action on the part of the doctor does NOT amount to murder.

Jaden

edit on 1-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)

Where do you people come from ?

If you live anywhere n the civilized world then you are using stuff made with your money and everyone's money.
Roads, bridges, powerlines, parks, HEALTHCARE, town halls, water lines, com lines, emergency cervices.

Get used to it....If you work and have income, you pay taxes. like everyone else. If you fall from a ladder and cant work anymore then thank your God or whatever sky fairy you believe in, different topic, and be gratefull that millions of other peopel just like you can stil work and pay for your spine titanium implants, recovery, pills and drugs and anything else you might need whiel you're unable to work.
If you're someoen who maybe choses to live alone, not marry, whatever, then you're not gonna be able to recover and support these expenses yourself.. This is where the state comes into play. It's like a helping hand that goes around whenever someoen needs it...by turn...
Whats such a big misery and mistery about it ?
If you thing it's slavery for you to work so some unlucky person to recover and keep living, then i guess you need ot go out and claim your portion of roads, highways, and all other public properties made wiht your money.

What ? you can't ?
Of course not...this isn't the jungle anymore...we, as a civilisation, are supposed to be evolved enough to care for one another and help each other when the need arrives. It's one for everyone and everyone for one...NOT everyone for himself.

Originally posted by coolhandflex
reply to post by Seraph Sephiroth

 

Over there I understand if your poor you not worth caring for, or thats the understanding I get? Surely the sign of a truly great nation is its ability to care for all of its citizens regardless for colour,creed or wealth?

No.

The sign of a great nation is having enough security in itself to allow it's citizens the choice.

The sign of a fascist nation is the government forcing the citizenry to do business with private corporations, against their will.

Ok Mr. libertarian, you need to stop using the Internet. Unless you personally laid the fiber optic cables to your rural compound of solitude, then you are forcing slavery upon me by using the infrastructure that my money helped to pay for. I guess we won't be hearing from you again once you've realized this hypocrisy.

Originally posted by CB328

Since you republicans hate society you should all move to the Sahara desert where you be completely unaccountable and can live in the hell you wish on everyone else.

I'm not a Republicrat, but I DO hate society - or, more properly, the hive of mindless insects you would prefer society to be. Be that as it may, I'm not going anywhere. This is where I was born, this is where my ancestors have lived for 20,000 years, this is where they are buried, and this is where I will die,

Your "society", your Brave New World, will just have to work around me. IF it can't manage to do that, what good is it, any way?

I am still trying to understand how people are brainwashed into believing that things we need are to be a business. I mean is it really acceptable to have the ability to fix a heart problem and deny it because one cannot pay for it???

Lets put aside the leeches of this world and look at it this way. Under our current way of life. If lets say a lawyer and a guy working at mc donalds both have a lethal health problem that can be fixed easily by modern medicine.... the lawyer should live because he can afford it but the mc donalds guy should die...

why because you all think one person is worth more than another?? hasn't that been the underlying theme of every sociopath that has attempted world domination??? that one group of people is better than another. So because the Mc donalds guy is happy to work at mc donalds he should die because monetary wise he is a lesser person compared to a lawyer?? he cant' afford healthcare for his problem. are you people serious?? are you people sociopaths?? Really?? am i hearing this right??

Now one argument i hear is waa waa not fair to doctors if they have huge school debt and low wages due to social healthcare... well guess what.... LOWER EDUCATION PRICES. As of now how many degree programs are there in schools which put you in huge amounts of debts and you do not make wages with said degrees to justify the amount of debt. that is a problem that needs to get fixed across the board. I really do not understand how people have this mentality that if you are not paying an arm and a leg it is not good. It is a sign of a decadent society. if it was true that expensive schooling and high doctor wages make the best doctors then why do we have so much malpractice and horror stories left and right about people dieing in hospitals due to home grown american quacks??

For socialized healthcare you need to rework the whole system as it is currently not setup for it to work. that does not mean we should just not discuss it.

Also i hear this argument that when government gets involved in anything it sucks and it gets worse. well guess what our government is involved in our military and spends tons of our tax dollars on our military and it is the best in the world bar none.... doesn't that tell you something?? that the government if it wants to it can do well with such things??? Maybe just maybe if we put about as much of our tax dollars into healthcare as we do to waging war we might have some decent social health care in this country... maybe just maybe.


FOOD HOUSING HEALTHCARE EDUCATION SHOULD NOT BE A BUSINESS EVERYONE NEEDS IT. THESE ARE NECESSITIES TO HAVE A GOOD SOCIETY IN A COUNTRY. IT REMOVES THE EXCUSE OF BEING A CRIMINAL FOR LACKING THESE THINGS. WHAT SHOULD BE A BUSINESS IS LUXURY ITEMS THAT ARE NOT NEEDED. LIKE DESIGNER CLOTHES, KID AND GROWN UP TOYS, COSMETIC SURGERY, STUPID DEGREES, AND LUXURY HOUSING.

that should be a business. NEEDED THINGS SHOULD NOT. IT IS NOT A BUSINESS IT SELLS ITSELF.

But this will not work under the current system but people are to brainwashed to think outside the box. If you try to make this work with the current system it will not work. so any quick quip you can come up this to say this won't work means nothing because you base it on the current system..

I am really tired of this social healthcare deal. In today's world in the USA it won't work. It won't work because it is designed to only work for profit... do you people not see this????

Originally posted by Atom12
reply to post by Masterjaden

 

It's worse than slavery because we are being forced to subsidize people who are too lazy to work and pay for their own health care. A similar system is already in place in MA and it has just about bankrupted this big lib state. No one accounted for the fact that when EVERYONE had health insurance they would be running to the emergency room with head colds and other nonsense. Health care in MA has gone waaaay downhill and the price has skyrocketed.
Prepare to join us or vote for Romney.

Vote for Romney?

Isn't he the one that started that mess in MA to begin with?

Originally posted by Choice777
If you live anywhere n the civilized world then you are using stuff made with your money and everyone's money.
Roads, bridges, powerlines, parks, HEALTHCARE, town halls, water lines, com lines, emergency cervices.

Healthcare is a commodity. And this isn't about healthcare. Not really.
It's about the government forcing people to buy a product .. their product.
It is an individuals right to decide if they want insurance or not.
But the government has taken away that right of choice.

Originally posted by narwahl

So, one more time:
When the "National Federation of Independent Business" asked the supreme court for it's opinion whether the ACA is constituional,

And the supreme court obliged by issuing an opinion

Did the NFIB have a right to force the supremes to consider the constitutionality of that law?

No. The SCOTUS could have declined to hear the case. Therefore, no force was involved.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Oh dear... these kind of topics make me smirk. Free healthcare is a right, free higher level education is a right, access to internet is a right. Life is good.

This bill has nothing to do with free healthcare at all...it is FORCING people to pay out of the nose for the same crappy healthcare insurance, or pay a fine if they don't...I have no choice whether I own a body or not, I am here. I have a body, with auto insurance I can just simply decide not to own a vehicle, but this vessel was given to me withuot any input on my part, and now I am going to be a goddamn slave for insurance companies and pharm companies, and doctors I won't ever use or need. It's disgusting!

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

You and the rich agree.

No police, fire, sanitation, road maintenance for you then.

Sales tax and lottery is most of that inclucing education...income tax all it does is pay for oil tycoon's foreign wars. Most states take care of roads, libraries, education, bridges, div of motor vehicles,etc...since when have you seen a library that doesn't say "City name public library"? this is because the city tax pays for it and since when have you seen a motor vehicle called "U.S Division of motor vehicles"?

reply to post by Masterjaden


Interesting that you bring this subject as many here that have dissected the entire bill and its BS knows for sure what is all about.

Yes I advocate for health care for all, regardless of health and social status but what people doesn't understand is that this is actually slavery for those healthy individuals that are income earners and tax payers to be hook on gouging insurance companies to pay for those that can not work or do not make enough wages to pay for care regardless of their health condition.

Is that fair? no is not actually by mandate or tax penalty is nothing more than socialized usury.

This is the biggest pay out for the insurance companies that now can tap on that part of the population that are good tax payers and income earners that are healthy to pay for those that are not for profits.

But please do not try to argue with one of those that do not pay a darn thing on taxes because they think that if you make more than them you own them something.

But that is ok, when the crap hit the fan and small businesses starts to leave the work force and lay off low income workers the system is going to crash anyway.