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Obamacare amounts to slavery...

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posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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So much for living off the grid. Obamacare has made it almost impossible to be free and totally self sufficient. Anyone know how I can qualify for an exemption other than becoming Amish?




posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden
I came upon an interesting thought while discussing Obamacare in another forum I frequent where people were trying to claim that healthcare is a right...

I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Anyone who advocates that healthcare is a right, advocates for slavery.

The hypocratic oath does not infer forced servitude. It is a man's personal honor to keep their word. The Doctor still must have the choice whether to do so or not. Non action on the part of the doctor does NOT amount to murder.

Jaden
edit on 1-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)


I don't want to start partisan bicker but the reality is, takers keep on taking. They don't care where the product or service is coming from. It's really a culture. Think about it; when the left doesn't like something, they create a law to shut it down or shut it up. The mentality of the left is to have as much control over others as possible. It's in our school system, Unions, government agencies, etc. See, the left is the party of slavery...check your history books and see who offered to most Civil Rights legislation and see who fought it and resisted it. It's a dirty little secret the left doesn't want you do know. Check the history of the KKK and you will see close ties to the Democratic party.

ObamaCare is going to add 10,000,000 indigent takers to the healthcare rolls without adding one doctor. Do they care the effect that is going to have on healthcare received by those of us who actually take responsibility and purchase insurance and have a jobs? You know, those of us here legally? Of course not. They never have and they never will. This shouldn't come as any surprise.

Compassion is only compassion when it's done out of generosity and of one's own free will. Holding a gun to my head and making me pay more taxes so others can have health insurance doesn't make YOU compassionate, it makes you an extortionist and a thief.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Choice777
If you live anywhere n the civilized world then you are using stuff made with your money and everyone's money.
Roads, bridges, powerlines, parks, HEALTHCARE, town halls, water lines, com lines, emergency cervices.

Healthcare is a commodity. And this isn't about healthcare. Not really.
It's about the government forcing people to buy a product .. their product.
It is an individuals right to decide if they want insurance or not.
But the government has taken away that right of choice.


I tend to agree with you on this.
It won't be long before the crooked politicians that voted for Obamacare will be sitting on the boards, or embedded in these government run "exchanges". The main stream Media will of course turn a blind eye to any nepotism or conflict of interest that results from their personally enriching themselves from a policy they promoted and shoved down our throats with their lies and deception.

There will be massive new government bureaucracies created to oversee this mess. Just imagine someone like Barney Frank or Dodd appointed as the new Obamacare czar. We are in for a bumpy ride.

I have never deluded myself into thinking that we as Americans ever had real Freedom, at least not in the last century, but now I believe that we are more enslaved to government than ever before.
edit on 7/2/2012 by Sparky63 because: Comments



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Choice777
If you live anywhere n the civilized world then you are using stuff made with your money and everyone's money.
Roads, bridges, powerlines, parks, HEALTHCARE, town halls, water lines, com lines, emergency cervices.

Healthcare is a commodity. And this isn't about healthcare. Not really.
It's about the government forcing people to buy a product .. their product.
It is an individuals right to decide if they want insurance or not.
But the government has taken away that right of choice.


I tend to agree with you on this.
It won't be long before the crooked politicians that voted for Obamacare will be sitting on the boards, or embedded in these government run "exchanges". The main stream Media will of course turn a blind eye to any nepotism or conflict of interest that results from their personally enriching themselves from a policy they promoted and shoved down our throats with their lies and deception.

There will be massive new government bureaucracies created to oversee this mess. Just imagine someone like Barney Frank or Dodd appointed as the new Obamacare czar. We are in for a bumpy ride.

I have never deluded myself into thinking that we as Americans ever had real Freedom, at least not in the last century, but now I believe that we are more enslaved to government than ever before.
edit on 7/2/2012 by Sparky63 because: Comments


They already are and they sit on the chairs of pharm and health insurance companies too, some of those judges do, as well, no doubt. This is facism at it's worst!



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


You have the right to live in a cave and eat the bugs crawling on the walls. But it seems no one really wants to do this. You do not have a right to electricity, safe drinking water, or any of the other perks that come from the aggregate of systems we have managed to put together as human beings. All you people who to live independent in your own delusion that you can go her along annoy me. Humans are social, and by this I mean need each other. Without the group we won't survive. You gotta have rules. When you demand that what's yours is yours alone, Your just showing your ignorance You will live within a system and the system is going to demand responsibilities. What's yours is not yours, it's what you've gotten from the system. Wake up be grateful



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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I have government provided healthcare.

I'm not "forced" to purchase it or go to jail, it's simply provided. I just pay a slightly larger tax rate and there you go, Bob's your uncle.

I don't understand this problem that people have with Universal Healthcare. Sure, there are flaws in the system, Canada isn't perfect.

But would you rather wait 10 hours in an emergency room to get your broken arm looked at, or pay 5 thousand dollars in hospital bills to get through faster?

I'll take the first one thank you.

As for Obamacare, it's total crap, should be abolished ASAP. And does ammount to slavery.

~Tenth
edit on 7/2/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I have government provided healthcare.

I'm not "forced" to purchase it or go to jail, it's simply provided. I just pay a slightly larger tax rate and there you go, Bob's your uncle.

I don't understand this problem that people have with Universal Healthcare. Sure, there are flaws in the system, Canada isn't perfect.

But would you rather wait 10 hours in an emergency room to get your broken arm looked at, or pay 5 thousand dollars in hospital bills to get through faster?

I'll take the first one thank you.

As for Obamacare, it's total crap, should be abolished ASAP. And does ammount to slavery.

~Tenth
edit on 7/2/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)
This is not universal healthcare, they still get to pick and choose who they want to give the public plan to (Which will be the ghetto trash) and those that can't get the public plan are forced by threat of fine to get their own through a health insurance company. With no exceptions. And beleive me the medicaid is an epic fail, you literally gotta be ghetto trash drug addict alcoholic or be a baby factory to get it. It's effing disgusting, mostly everybody that works will be turned down for the public plan.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by ldyserenity
 


Wow Ld,

I mean I understand and agree with you that this plan is terrible, but I'd rather think that you weren't making a huge blanket statement and calling people "Ghetto Trash & Baby Factories", those sorts of labels only inflamme the situation, and offend a lot of people.

It's kind of below you as far as I am concerned.

~Tenth



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden
I came upon an interesting thought while discussing Obamacare in another forum I frequent where people were trying to claim that healthcare is a right...

I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Anyone who advocates that healthcare is a right, advocates for slavery.

The hypocratic oath does not infer forced servitude. It is a man's personal honor to keep their word. The Doctor still must have the choice whether to do so or not. Non action on the part of the doctor does NOT amount to murder.

Jaden
edit on 1-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)


I see where you're coming from.

...never mind the socialistic teet lovers giving you grief.

I do think there needs to be some reform but we all know what happens when the feds take over anything...corruption, waste, and general stupidity. I wont even go into the Tenth Amendment violations this stirs up (oh yeah, the supremes said "its ok"....screw'em all).

Take for example our veterans. In most cases I've had dealings with, the care has been substandard at best.

"You take up too many resources comrade, time to take a nap".

"Oh, your poor baby was too premature and just ....died"

Yeah, its gonna equal slavery. Just like every april 15 if you dont give your tribute to the master.
edit on 2/7/12 by felonius because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Is not blanket rhetoric, is reality at its worst, how do I know, I live in GA in one of the poorest cities, guess what she is right, that is what we got here in this town baby factories, crack heads, illegal immigrants children and gang bangers .

Those like my husband that are high tax payers are the ones that are gouged so those behind keep living for free.

Sadly now that my husband just lost his job to Obama budget cuts will not be providing with his sweat for the baby factories and crack heads.

Still because he earns a retirement pay from the government he will be stuck into paying for Obama care and still we can not even get unemployment.

That is just peachy. Yes I am angry.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Sparky63
So much for living off the grid. Obamacare has made it almost impossible to be free and totally self sufficient. Anyone know how I can qualify for an exemption other than becoming Amish?


If you're off the grid, then you have given yourself your own exemption, and not a damned thing they can do about it. No paper trail means no W-4, to tax forms, no penalty.

OR -

You could just tell the IRS to kiss your ass, you ain't paying it. Not much they can do. Can't attach your wages or put a lien on you or anything like that.

Just say NO.




edit on 2012/7/2 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


10 hrs for a broken arm. Hmm.

When its your kid you'll rethink that. Besides, you can get this NOW at a county hospital all day long. No Obama/Romney care required! Illegals are using it to spew babies left and right.

How about 6 months or more for a surgery? "whoops, they died before it was time! Look at how much we saved!"

I have said before, we could use some reform

but

You socialist types need to keep to your own.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


And I dont' doubt the validity of the problems Marg, that's not my issue.

My issue is that by inviting heated rhetoric and resorting to name calling in anger, you won't solve the problem. You'll simply anger the other side.

The GOP and Democrats do this all the time, instead of working together on an issue they continually blame each other for the inaction or poor actions they take in their every day positions.

It's the same when dealing with social issues. Yes there may be blame to place on certain groups of people, but name calling them won't make them want to be part of the solution now will it?

~Tenth



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Is not blanket rhetoric, is reality at its worst, how do I know, I live in GA in one of the poorest cities, guess what she is right, that is what we got here in this town baby factories, crack heads, illegal immigrants children and gang bangers .

Those like my husband that are high tax payers are the ones that are gouged so those behind keep living for free.

Sadly now that my husband just lost his job to Obama budget cuts will not be providing with his sweat for the baby factories and crack heads.

Still because he earns a retirement pay from the government he will be stuck into paying for Obama care and still we can not even get unemployment.

That is just peachy. Yes I am angry.



The glories of comrade obamas love for us....It just keeps on coming LOL!

You brought up a point I hadnt considered.

"Here is your unemployment....minus the obamalove. Oh, no unemployment? Whatchagot. Ah, that'll do".



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


10 hrs for a broken arm. Hmm.

When its your kid you'll rethink that. Besides, you can get this NOW at a county hospital all day long. No Obama/Romney care required! Illegals are using it to spew babies left and right.



I have 4 kids. One of which has a relatively rare disease, which had I not had my government health care would cost me about 200 thousand in the last 10 years, plus about 20 thousand in medication per year since then and on going.

So you tell me whose better off?

Could you afford those medical bills? And for the record I was a successfull business owner and my husband is a Pediatrician, we aren't starving let's say, but either way, we would be if we had to actually foot all these bills ourselves.


How about 6 months or more for a surgery? "whoops, they died before it was time! Look at how much we saved!"


Doesn't happen in this country. Not for surgeries that are required in order to prevent life threatening consequences. Sure the trivial stuff might take you a while to get into a specialist so they can decide what needs to be done. That needs to change.

But that's a fundemental problem of how we pay our doctors in this country.


I have said before, we could use some reform


I'm not saying Canada doesn't need reform, it certainly does, but its' better than what the US and the majority of 1st world nations enjoy.


You socialist types need to keep to your own.


You should keep your political name calling and adhominem's to yourself my friend. I am no socialist. Sure I have some idealogies that require a strong government to provide essential services only, but otherwise I'm quite libertarian.

~Tenth
edit on 7/2/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


10 hrs for a broken arm. Hmm.

When its your kid you'll rethink that. Besides, you can get this NOW at a county hospital all day long. No Obama/Romney care required! Illegals are using it to spew babies left and right.

How about 6 months or more for a surgery? "whoops, they died before it was time! Look at how much we saved!"

I have said before, we could use some reform

but

You socialist types need to keep to your own.


let's all move to texas to escape those evil socialist types...here's a list of "quality of life" in texas:
offthekuff.com...
good news...texas has plenty of jobs, bad news... and a 15 billion dollar deficit, hmmm....and all this has been in control of the republicans for years...but look at all that freedom and liberty!!...yeehah!!!



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Masterjaden
I came upon an interesting thought while discussing Obamacare in another forum I frequent where people were trying to claim that healthcare is a right...

I don't understand how ANYONE can claim that a service provided by another is a right... That would infer that you have the right to force someone to work for you. That is THE definition of slavery.

Anyone who advocates that healthcare is a right, advocates for slavery.

The hypocratic oath does not infer forced servitude. It is a man's personal honor to keep their word. The Doctor still must have the choice whether to do so or not. Non action on the part of the doctor does NOT amount to murder.

Jaden
edit on 1-7-2012 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)


You should look into what Obamacare is. It isn't legislation which says doctors will treat people for free - in fact, it ensures that more often than today, they will be paid for their services. While it isn't the Michael Savage / Rush Limbaugh way, UT is wise to research a topic before maki g bold statements about it. This legislation doesn't make healthcare services unpaid - it forces everyone to have coverage for healthcare so that the doctors, Big Pharma, and Healtchare corporations make more moneym rather than having to provide services for free in some cases.

If there is a complaint, it is that many want to not have coverage so that when something happens, they can just not pay their bill if they can't afford it, which they believe should be their choice. Personally, I'm sick of those people making my costs go up to pay for them to save money, so I am a supporter of this imperfect legislation.

Yes, ideally, you should have the choice, but that would mean you would have to be willing to forego treatments if you can't pay the bill. That is a bit barbaric, and as a society, we don't feel it is right to just let someone die because they didn't opt for health coverage, or have $100k handy to pay for their hospital bill. If the folks who are against this are willing to have treatments auto-denied if they cannot pay, then I think we should GI e them that choice to not be a part of it.

But please, let's stop mixing in strange fantasy-land interpretations of what the bill is about and discuss something closer to reality instead of wasting our time with arguments about some pretend legislation. I mean, your post is like saying the decriminalization of marijuana in Chicago requires all mechanics to fix cars for free or be shot. There's literally no difference in how wrong and untrue that statement and your post are. Complete and total lack of both truth and knowledge.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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I am a Canadian married to an American...believe me, Universal Health Care is a GOOD thing!



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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I would not call it slavery but it is another step towards America becoming more of a nanny state. I'm not sure this is such a good idea when you look at the state Europe is in. They are the poineers for such policies and in such a competitive world these ideas while they sound nice may not be possible long term. That is my biggest concern and with the economy currently so weak it may not be the best time to be experimenting major policy changes. The recovery is fragile and slow enough as it is without potentially throwing a wrench into it.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


I...suppose one could arrange it to infer slavery.

Here is the prevailing reason for universal healthcare that requires less mental acrobatics:

American citizens have either by design or chance, become a population who only inadvertently interacts with the establishment and the destiny designed by that establishment. The debasement of upward mobility, financial security, and the ability to "make your own way" are things which are on the way out the door, if that door hasn't already been shut. The argument for universal healthcare seems to guiltily acknowledge that a majority of our population is in for continued degradation of financial prosperity. So in other words, the "game" is rigged. Big surprise, I know. But the truth of this continued degradation is becoming too obvious even to the sludge brained masses. Instead of allowing the possibility of a mass-led upheaval, they will calm us by paying for some big-ticket item which "benefits" us all.

But of course it benefits them too. It attaches our mouths to their teat forever.



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