The point of no return. Australia's Carbon Tax coming this Weekend

Originally posted by redgy
instead of planting trees, let's fill the nation full of solar panels and wind turbines

We need to plant trees & stop deforesting, yes and the solar panels & wind sound goos to me.

add more natural gas lines through everyone's backyard, flood every prime area with hydo-electric mega dams, clear the land for super highways, industrial area's and forced housing developments

I didn't suggest that or want that. Sounds like projection to me.

isn't this a reason why china wants to stick with less green sources of power, because it is still cheaper than most other processes even though maybe not one as ever decreasing..

China get 17% of the energy from renewables. They have renewables programs that dwarf most other countries. They are rapidly transitioning towards more renewables in their mix, despite not being required to do so.

en.wikipedia.org...'s_Republic_of_China

Now, why would they do that?

what power do you use on cloudy/non-sunshine days, your own 20% free power being sold back to you? how about when the grid itself goes down, do you still laugh it up with enough to spare?

My power meter spins backwards so much that the days that it is producing energy, counters the times it needs energy from the grid. In short, I produce more than I require from the grid.

how green will it really be when building all these power plants, most of australia will be waiting for decades before being placed on any such grid,

Thats why it's important to start now. It doesn't happen overnight no.

Anyone see Craig Emmerson's little floor show ?

What a tool.

Labor = Toast at next election

Good knowing you Australia, the carbon tax will effectively hand over your country to the socialists.

(I bet some China cheerleaders on ATS are very glad at this event - you know who they are)


Effectively, this carbon tax will allow the government to dictate which businesses thrive, and which ones don't. Wonder which ones will get to survive, perhaps those who toe the socialist party line.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Good knowing you Australia, the carbon tax will effectively hand over your country to the socialists.

(I bet some China cheerleaders on ATS are very glad at this event - you know who they are)


Effectively, this carbon tax will allow the government to dictate which businesses thrive, and which ones don't. Wonder which ones will get to survive, perhaps those who toe the socialist party line.

edit on 2-7-2012 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

Well said.

Feels like I'm alone & shouting to the wind sometimes. Good to see someone else on here with some insight & common sense.

We are on a very slippery, downhill slide.

reply to post by Hannagan

No joke. Yet, you oppose them getting a foothold in your support for fossil fuels. Own goal. Yet, you probably never bat an eyelid at the billions in tax payer funds being given to fossil fuel companies to build roads, rail, ports and provide subsidies do you? But oh no, let's get enraged about competition!

Like I said in my initial post, I would be all for investing in cheaper, cleaner and renewable energy and you completely ignore my point. The Government has proven it will cater to existing fossil fuel corporations by not investing in cheaper, effective and renewable energy.

I am fairly certain that it will not be possible because paying less is not something companies will ever pass on to the consumer regardless of how much cheaper something is to produce. So far we have a tax on carbon with precious little in the way of effective choice of alternative power for the consumer.

As most ordinary and low income families struggle just to pay the ever increasing bills, it is almost impossible for them to save much less afford $14,000+ for a few solar panels to make any saving in utilities.

Please don't make assumptions about how I feel with regard to taxes going to fossil fuel companies whilst ignoring crucial points in my argument.

cheers

Originally posted by MollyStewart
reply to post by Hannagan

 

No joke. Yet, you oppose them getting a foothold in your support for fossil fuels. Own goal. Yet, you probably never bat an eyelid at the billions in tax payer funds being given to fossil fuel companies to build roads, rail, ports and provide subsidies do you? But oh no, let's get enraged about competition!

Like I said in my initial post, I would be all for investing in cheaper, cleaner and renewable energy and you completely ignore my point. The Government has proven it will cater to existing fossil fuel corporations by not investing in cheaper, effective and renewable energy.

Molly, I want investment in renewables also, but they have given the lions share of public funds to the fossil fuel companies. The renewables subsidies we found to cost nearly $400 per tonne to mitigate CO2. That's why a carbon tax is better at $23 tonne.

The renewables subsidies we found to cost nearly $400 per tonne to mitigate CO2. That's why a carbon tax is better at $23 tonne.

reply to post by Hannagan


I agree, $23 per tonne is better than $400 per tonne. Regardless; when the cost is passed on to the consumer what does it matter? It is just another tax upon the people. Perhaps you can show me where the government demonstrate that it will effectively reduce carbon emissions or offer more affordable, effective and cleaner energy? I would greatly appreciate it.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
(I bet some China cheerleaders on ATS are very glad at this event - you know who they are)

He's banned...

*awkward silence*

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Good knowing you Australia, the carbon tax will effectively hand over your country to the socialists.

(I bet some China cheerleaders on ATS are very glad at this event - you know who they are)


Effectively, this carbon tax will allow the government to dictate which businesses thrive, and which ones don't. Wonder which ones will get to survive, perhaps those who toe the socialist party line.

edit on 2-7-2012 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

On some part I do agree with you, this will lean Australia to socialist a bit, not much, but its not a bad thing.
Carbon tax is the new evil of capitalist tool and accepting it is like agreeing to be slave.

Here I against what you mentioned, carbon tax is not a socialist tool, its a capitalist tool, engineered since the 80's or the 70s, its not new, it was predicted and we know its the future.
Your bias show you didnt know what is it.

Again - carbon tax is a capitalist created tool. Learn to understand it.

Why Aus PM accept it ? Money of course. So much better the capitalist showing their true self than you find it on your own. Anyway, Aussies gonna have it hard way already. Your mentioned about socialist company that survive is baseless and dumb at best, its the corporate/capitalist that will enjoy the benefit,

What a bugger, we have somebody so brainwashed against socialist that mentioned carbon tax is on socialist side. LOL.

Months ago, sombody post - What is the expected NWO money ?
I'm communist/socialist supporter, answered - capitalist created carbon tax and nobody give a damn, now you see it coming, one by one countries will adapt carbon tax, socialist or capitalist - all will adapt it. In 100 years, carbon tax is the new money, say thanks to capitalist for a stupid get.

If you think I'm baseless, then let it be known, I'm a communist sympathizer who use capitalist tool much better than most to predict the future, and I have seen the capitalist plan.

What to watch, these will become common words in the future (20-60 years time), mark my word.:
Personal carbon trading
Certified Emission Reductions
Emissions trading

Soon...your ability to live will be traded, priced and regulated.
Oh well, like my other post, this one will go with the wind too, at least I have my say to some stupid people who never learn.

Originally posted by MollyStewart

The renewables subsidies we found to cost nearly $400 per tonne to mitigate CO2. That's why a carbon tax is better at $23 tonne.

reply to post by Hannagan

 

I agree, $23 per tonne is better than $400 per tonne. Regardless; when the cost is passed on to the consumer what does it matter? It is just another tax upon the people. Perhaps you can show me where the government demonstrate that it will effectively reduce carbon emissions or offer more affordable, effective and cleaner energy? I would greatly appreciate it.

Again, the point is that the price of coal powered energy will increase (and yes, obviously, this gets 'passed on' to the consumer), making other forms of 'alternative' energy better able to compete.

If it reduces the amount of power people are using, then obviously it reduces emissions.

It's easy to bitch about higher prices, but the reality is, prices will continue to climb regardless of the tax. The real problem is scarcity. The current model of fossil fuels for energy production means prices will climb for ever, because its based on a limited, dwindling resource.

reply to post by steve1709


We can afford the restaurants still, my family live comfortably, but we work hard for it, I made mention of incentives, people such as myself have done the right thing all along and get punished, I see no equity in this tax as those who dont give a dam get off free as the government assists them in their poor choices.

I know that Abbot will not get rid of the tax as it will be too hard to get rid of due to a possible hostile senate and the greens with their finger in the pie.

This is the start of a scientific dictatorship and most clowns are ringing the dinner bell calling for the ushering in of their own demise believing that this is how to save the planet.

Nothing funnier to TPTB than watching free men begging for their own bondage thinking that it will save the planet.

BTW, where can you only pay $50 dollars for a meal? and dont say sizzler

Originally posted by munkey66
reply to post by steve1709

 

We can afford the restaurants still, my family live comfortably, but we work hard for it, I made mention of incentives, people such as myself have done the right thing all along and get punished, I see no equity in this tax as those who dont give a dam get off free as the government assists them in their poor choices.

I know that Abbot will not get rid of the tax as it will be too hard to get rid of due to a possible hostile senate and the greens with their finger in the pie.

This is the start of a scientific dictatorship and most clowns are ringing the dinner bell calling for the ushering in of their own demise believing that this is how to save the planet.

Nothing funnier to TPTB than watching free men begging for their own bondage thinking that it will save the planet.

BTW, where can you only pay $50 dollars for a meal? and dont say sizzler

edit on 3-7-2012 by munkey66 because: added content

Don't know where you can get that meal mate. We haven't had enough for take away for about 14 years, ever since my beautiful lady's accident.. Re people's choices, I guess you're right, I had a "choice" back in 98 to keep chasing the almighty dollar or settling for the pittance we receive as a pension so that I van help Julie get better. A long journey with still a long way to go but I made that choice and I am more than happy that I did. She's worth a bazillion dollars to me so if we don't have those extras, so be it. But the last thing I want is for the libs to get back in because they didn't care one little bit for anyone who wasn't able to donate to their rich club. I hate em with a passion. Never found one yet that would care for those that are stuck. You see, not everyone is a bludger, I worked for 30 + years before deciding to give it up ( and as I mentioned above, I gave it up for what I see as a fair enough reason).

Not worth the drama to argue with children.