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The point of no return. Australia's Carbon Tax coming this Weekend

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posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:12 AM
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Virtually all referendum fail. So there is no point. It's a political tool.
reply to post by Hannagan
 


Well if a referendum is a useless political tool, it certainly worked for the majority of Australians who did not agree with becoming a republic. So they do not all fail but the point is, when Politicians who are our representatives start creating taxes and legislation that is not in the best interest of the people or the country, we should be given the option.

I found out today Sunday 1st July that my power bill is going to increase as of today by 14%. Just out of the blue. Again! Certainly more than enough cover the cost of the new tax and well above the government projected estimate increase. Let me put it into perspective. My power bill for electricity per quarter is say $420.oo That is just an increase of 14.70 per month. On 1 utility. Wait until the rest come in.

I might also point out that until there is infrastructure in place for cheaper, affordable and cleaner power, a tax is nothing but a revenue raising exercise that will line the pockets of the politicians. It will Not stop polluters. It will NOT invest in cheaper and cleaner renewable resources as they have already demonstrated.

The whole thing is an Epic FAIL and will change nothing but make life more difficult for ordinary families and low income earners.




posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 06:43 AM
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Being Australian I can understand where you're coming from. However, I think we are too wasteful, and any increases in price can be offset by doing a few basic things! So many of my friends and family never turn off their power points to things like TVs and computers (and anything with phantom power) when they aren't using them. They leave TV's on all the time, and have multiple fridges and freezers (eg extra meat, or bar fridges). Regardless of if you believe in global warming, this is so wasteful! I keep 1 fridge and keep my power consumption as low as possible without affecting lifestyle and I spend hardly anything on power.

As for the food problem, good motivation to start a garden and buy more locally i'd say! And fuel, well people will just have to not use their cars for everything, take a bus or ride a bike! There are plenty of better options and none of these effects can't be avoided or reduced, we Australians are just lazy!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:49 AM
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I was wondering how long before someone would come on here and start squealing about the carbon tax. imo there are heaps of ways of looking at this. If one is of the mindset that tptb have an agenda (eg agenda 21) then this is just another step forward in their agenda. If one has a mindset that the govt did this of their own valition then naturally the c tax shows a betrayal of the Oz public. If one has a mindset that since this is a minority govt, then compromise was reached with the greens and unfortunately, that would mean the need to give in to their demands. Then, if one had a mindset that something has to be done about the carbon polution and that this was shown to be the best way to attack it, then the c tax should make the big polluters look at their bottom line and work out ways to make their bottom line NOT be raised. To do this they would then be looking at alternative ideas so that the amount of CO2 released would be minimised. But then again, if one has a mindset that poor Tony should be the PM (and thank christ he isn't because that goose even admitted on TV that we couldn't trust everything he has to say) then jumping up and down about the c tax is the right and just thing to do.
But I noticed on the first page of this that a few people did the maths and noticed that the scare mongering of people having to watch out as the sky fell in really didn't cut it.
I chose to stop chasing the almighty dollar a decade or so ago so that I could look after my beautiful but but very ill wife and the amount of help that the lousy libs could give was bl00dy awful. Thank the gods that they have been out of office for the past little while. I almost vomited every time I saw Costello bragging about how much he was squirrelling away while pensioners struggled to even make it from week to week.
OOPS on a soap box, sorry about that. My distaste for the rich party sometimes gets a little out of hand.
Back to the point. I will be interested to see how the economy smoothly glides past this non event. The other thing that I believe the govt should be applauded for is the mining tax as it FINALLY gives to the Aussie people something for the metals and minerals that are being taken by O/S companies.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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Good luck Aussies,

Either you guys put her in prison or suffer what American will have.
So... are you guys up to the challenge or also sheeple ? I dont need your answers, just to point out the obvious question you need to answer.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by bonnieprince
Being Australian I can understand where you're coming from. However, I think we are too wasteful, and any increases in price can be offset by doing a few basic things! So many of my friends and family never turn off their power points to things like TVs and computers (and anything with phantom power) when they aren't using them. They leave TV's on all the time, and have multiple fridges and freezers (eg extra meat, or bar fridges). Regardless of if you believe in global warming, this is so wasteful! I keep 1 fridge and keep my power consumption as low as possible without affecting lifestyle and I spend hardly anything on power.

As for the food problem, good motivation to start a garden and buy more locally i'd say! And fuel, well people will just have to not use their cars for everything, take a bus or ride a bike! There are plenty of better options and none of these effects can't be avoided or reduced, we Australians are just lazy!


What a lovely idea you have,
But tell me, what do I do?
I live in a 2 bedroom unit with my wife and 2 boys, we are unable to use solar due to body corporate laws.
we use energy efficient lights, drive an economical car and walk or ride our bikes on most days.
no room for a vegetable garden or a compost heap.

we use the cloths line to dry our clothes and buy as local as we can.

Prior to the tax being introduced fuel where I live costs around $1.54 a litre
Brisbane pays around $1.30 a litre.
try catching a bus in a regional city at 4:30 in the morning, when they dont start running until 6:00
Did I mention both my wife and I work and get NO government assistance at all, yet you expect some of us to sacrifice even more.
tell me, what do I sacrifice next?
our food is more expensive due to the fact that we live over 1,000 kilometers from the closest capital city and it takes 2 days for grocery items to get here by rail, and again if we have a big wet season we don't get a train for weeks.

so please once again tell me how this magic tax will help me and the environment?
I tell you one thing this tax will do, it will stop my wife and I from spending money in our community, the take a way meal on a friday night, the occasional weekend away will stop and instead our money will be saved and if a holiday is wanted, it will be abroad and not locally where we will get better value for money.

I suppose the tax will help, because without people like myself and wife having a nice night out, our waitress who would have been employed will probably sit in a dark room wishing for a job and electricity.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by munkey66

so please once again tell me how this magic tax will help me and the environment?


Exactly!...Are the Politicians Short for Ca$h for their end of Year PARTY or Something?...



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by Hannagan

Originally posted by MrMysteryMan

Originally posted by mainidh
Howard at least tried to find a solution to our current influx of boat people.


That's why they're bringing IN the 'Carbon Tax'...They have to get the Money from Somewhere to support them!


The tax is not for extra revenue, it is running at a net loss.



You Seriously don't Actually ***BELIEVE*** that?



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by munkey66

I tell you one thing this tax will do, it will stop my wife and I from spending money in our community, the take a way meal on a friday night, the occasional weekend away will stop and instead our money will be saved and if a holiday is wanted, it will be abroad and not locally where we will get better value for money..


What bull#. You are claiming you will spend MORE money on airfare to fly to a different country so you can 'spend less'. But then you pretend you care about your local economy? Please. Crocodile tears.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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Personaly i think im screwed.
Living with my girlfriend and have my two young boys for 4 days every two weeks(which is fantastic)

Im on disability support pension my girlfriend is on injury allowance or something like that but its not DSP.
I was born with Spina Bifida she has a shoulder injury from her previous job.

I get about $500 a fortnight with the pension my girlfriend gets about $400 a fortnight i think.
I pay my half of rent $250 fortnight and i pay the power gas and water also internet.

Girlfriend covers her half of rent $250 fortnight and pays for petrol and food shopping(food for my boys also)
I had work for a few months with an understanding employer and that money allowed me to build four computers so the four of us could game together and i wouldnt look like a complete retard to my kids.
Im afraid.....im afraid im going to loose my boys because when they come around all we will be doing is sitting around a #ing candle trying to read a book because i can barely afford the bills right now.

My last power bill was over $400 gas was about the same........im almost broken.
Crime is all i will have left to resort to in the end as there are very few jobs for a person who s--t's and piss's himself without warning.......it's humiliating.

So the person who thinks having a pc,tablet two fridges lcd tv smart phone and hobby's ect is the average............
i wish i could afford to take my boys to archery that we all love and not s--t my pants while where there.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by Littlejohnny1

They are coming because they are opportunistic country shoppers who have already passed through several other safe havens before getting here.

They are que jumping illegals.


Yes, but why are they coming? Look at the big picture.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by Littlejohnny1



If it wasn't for the resources sector, Australia would be worse off than Spain.

We are just an insignificant backwater with little else to offer. Certainly not our loud mouthed, cocky opinion (as expresssed by Julia last week).



And.........then there are facts.

en.wikipedia.org...

"The Australian economy is dominated by its service sector, representing 68% of GDP. The mining sector represents 10% of GDP"

We are being dictated by the 10%.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by MollyStewart



Virtually all referendum fail. So there is no point. It's a political tool.



Well if a referendum is a useless political tool, it certainly worked for the majority of Australians who did not agree with becoming a republic.



You just proved my point. The prevailing Constitution was not changed in that referendum. It failed to change Australia into a republic.


I found out today Sunday 1st July that my power bill is going to increase as of today by 14%. Just out of the blue. Again!


Tell me this. Under coal, your savior, has your power bills been going down for the past 10 years, or going up, incedently without a carbon tax in place? Do you think if the carbon tax was not introduced, there would be a chance your power costs would go down using coal? For a conspiracy site, where a lot of people complain about free energy being suppressed, it's amazing the amount of people so plugged into the system, that they actually demand more of the same old same old that is screwing them up already.


I might also point out that until there is infrastructure in place for cheaper, affordable and cleaner power



No joke. Yet, you oppose them getting a foothold in your support for fossil fuels. Own goal. Yet, you probably never bat an eyelid at the billions in tax payer funds being given to fossil fuel companies to build roads, rail, ports and provide subsidies do you? But oh no, let's get enraged about competition!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 

I am one of the 40% who don't receive compensation, I am a family man, have 2 children under the age of 10 and a mortgage. Not one of the typical that complain that they don't receive compensation. I would mind paying if this was (the carbon tax) was going to do anything, but as I am a cynical I just see the prices increasing without any 'green' alternatives being offered. I live in South Australia so the price of electricity has already been sky rocketing over the last 2 years, that along with water, government fees and charges and anything else you can name.

I live in hope that the tax will benefit my children by providing a cleaner world, but I don't think this is the way to achieve it. Especially when Australia sells its coal to other nations who will just burn it anyway to add to the Carbon in the atmosphere. If the Gillard government is serious about this why is there not a carbon tax component on Brown coal exports.

I am mad as hell as I write this, I have seen an effect of the tax yet...it is only day 2 (Monday morning 2nd July), but I expect over the next 2 weeks I will start to see it's effect.

I live in hope that this tax is not destructive to the countries as unlike the GST is has more far reaching effects. I also can't see it being repealed by future governments due to the way it has been implemented.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by munkey66

I tell you one thing this tax will do, it will stop my wife and I from spending money in our community, the take a way meal on a friday night, the occasional weekend away will stop and instead our money will be saved and if a holiday is wanted, it will be abroad and not locally where we will get better value for money..


What bull#. You are claiming you will spend MORE money on airfare to fly to a different country so you can 'spend less'. But then you pretend you care about your local economy? Please. Crocodile tears.


get your facts straight sunshine,
From cairns to Aukland is $467 dollars Noumea $510 dollars
Cairns to Devenport is $428 dollars, Cairns to Perth is $409 dollars.

So I can travel to another country for less than $100 dollars more and I get better value for my dollar in those countries due to the high Australian dollar.
So why would I spend less than 1 week at Uluru which would cost my family over $ 6,000 dollars when we could visit Bali and come home with change and a holiday twice as long?

So no crocodile tears here, we will not be spending our money in local resturaunts which are already over priced, we will not be venturing interstate either. we save our money and will now travel over seas for our holidays.
I didnt vote this clown in, I did not support this tax and I have always bought and travelled locally, but in the end I have to look after myself and my family and do the best for us.

edit on 1-7-2012 by munkey66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by munkey66
 


Do you have a balcony or common area at all? You can always get some potted vegetables to put there. If you have a windowsill herbs go great there.
Is it possible to move closer to your work? Is it possible you are using everything as efficiently as possible? Can you find people to car pool with? I'm sure your situation is hard, but it's about finding what works. I think our urban spread is unsustainable, so if this tax gets people to start realising we can't all live in houses, good.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by ozzieman
 


G'day Ozzie

Re "I also can't see it being repealed by future governments due to the way it has been implemented. "


Of course it won't be repealed. Phoney Tony is just like his mentor Howard. They are all for lining the pockets of the well off at the expense of the every day Aussie battler. Sooner or later the people must see that polluting the planet is not in the intrests of our kids and grandkids. It's just a crying shame that due to the need for compromise with other parties, the labor govt was unable to implement only their policies. It's an even bigger shame that there are so many people who can't see this. And regarding the ATSer who is living in Cairns, why would you need to go on holidays anyway? You are living in an area that is holiday central all day every day. So to thse who think the alternative is going to be your saviour, be careful what you wish for. That bloke has even admitted publicly that we cant trust his word. I can see libs getting in and the average Joe being squeezed even more. THEN you will see hardship like you've never seen before. Oh, by the way, sky hasn't fallen in yet.

edit on 1/7/12 by steve1709 because: spelling



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by ozzieman
reply to post by daaskapital
 

I am one of the 40% who don't receive compensation, I am a family man, have 2 children under the age of 10 and a mortgage. Not one of the typical that complain that they don't receive compensation. I would mind paying if this was (the carbon tax) was going to do anything, but as I am a cynical I just see the prices increasing without any 'green' alternatives being offered.


It's not like a light switch, where the day the tax is implemented, it instantly heals the planet worldwide. It's like the cessation of whaling, or slavery, or using CFC's, it's a slow recovery. Sure one country acting alone does nothing. But every government worldwide acknowledges it (AGW) and most are doing something about it. We are not acting alone.


I live in South Australia so the price of electricity has already been sky rocketing over the last 2 years, that along with water, government fees and charges and anything else you can name.


Why do you suppose that is?


Especially when Australia sells its coal to other nations who will just burn it anyway to add to the Carbon in the atmosphere. If the Gillard government is serious about this why is there not a carbon tax component on Brown coal exports.


I gather you are talking about China. For one, they are a developing country who is booming and need a lot of energy to make changes. China are not sitting on their hands in all this. They need fast cheap energy now and despite being really bad for the planet, coal is good at being fast and cheap. Renewables and nuclear take a long time to get going. They can't stall their economy waiting for it. Yet their renewables programs dwarf most other countries. Secondly, they are not bound by the Kyoto agreement to do anything at all.......yet they are.


edit on 1-7-2012 by Hannagan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by Hannagan

Originally posted by Littlejohnny1

They are coming because they are opportunistic country shoppers who have already passed through several other safe havens before getting here.

They are que jumping illegals.


Yes, but why are they coming? Look at the big picture.



You need to take a closer look. They are coming simply because they realise Australia is a soft touch. Welfare, handouts, free grub, housing yada, yada, yada.

Also, many are Sri Lankens and Pakistani's who are fleeing what ?

I don't give a fig about the rest of em. As I said, they cross through many safe havens before reaching here. Any genuine refugees are of course welcome but they probably make up less than 5% of this lot.

You must be another Labor stooge.

My God, I find it hard to fathom what goes on in the brains of you lot. Gillard could come and personally s^^t in your cornflakes and you'd still vote for her & Labor.

Does your head hurt ? Bashing it against that brick wall must be doing you damage. How in figs name can you in all honesty defend this hopeless mob ???

Pink Batts
BER
Carbon Tax
Illegal Arrivals
Mining Tax
Live Cattle
On it goes.............

Lets face it. She is simply out of her depth and should resign in shame.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by MrMysteryMan

Originally posted by Hannagan

Originally posted by MrMysteryMan

Originally posted by mainidh
Howard at least tried to find a solution to our current influx of boat people.


That's why they're bringing IN the 'Carbon Tax'...They have to get the Money from Somewhere to support them!


The tax is not for extra revenue, it is running at a net loss.



You Seriously don't Actually ***BELIEVE*** that?



Why yes.....yes i do.

www.carbontax.net.au...

It is actually costing them $4B. It makes NO money for the government and wont when it becomes an ETS.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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The price of everything is going to go up a lot more than the government is saying. One good example is refrigerant gases. They are now 3 to 4 times the price. When you think about how much refrigeration is used, especially in the food, hospitality, transport and medical industries, we're going to see a HUGE increase in the cost of any item requiring refrigeration
edit on 1-7-2012 by NeuronDivide because: (no reason given)



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