A Challenge to All Non-Muslim

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
Nice post I guess...I have no issue with faith. But I have issues with how women are treated in the muslim world.

So do I.

The Koran clearly states that husbands are allowed to beat disobedient wives.

Koran 4:34

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Koran 4:34

In the Hadith Muslim, Muhammad struck his favourite wife (Aisha who he had sex with when she was 9) in the chest becuase she had left the house without his permission.

Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Hadith Muslim 4:2127

Islam condones wife beating. It is a mistake to assume that Islam is just another religion.

OK then, thanks OP for this thread, it has helped me to see islam for what it really is. A dogma of divide and conquer, a religion that is definately NOT one of peace, a way for a group of mental retard radicals to gradually infiltrate country after country until their version of god (note the little g) is forceably imposed on the masses. OP, it was mentioned by one poster that (in my own take on it) you are playing the victim and trying to promote islam as peaceful. Well after I asked a couple of questions, MANY apparent learned people have come back with numerous instances in the koran that prove islam to be anything but peaceful. I think I agree that your original post does come across as "poor little me" and "we aren't that bad", well maybe you as a person aren't that bad, but your religion imo certainly is. And I don't really care about the irrelevant arguments about poofy priests sodomising little boys, how many aboriginals were left after the europeans came to Oz, etc, this thread is about your take on islam. But as I started with above, thank for clearing up the position held by islam. "Believe what I believe and I will let you live in peace, but if you don't I'll kill you and then we will only have peaceful people left." hmmmm sure sounds like freedom to me. (not) The only sad thing I see here is that there are nice people who have to immerse themselves in something like that to get what they consider peace. Why can't those nice people just have their ideas WITHOUT the mental maggots controling them?

reply to post by CrimsonKapital


Aborigines were exposed to diseases, such as small pox and measles, suffered starvation due to loss of traditional lands and suffered many massacres. There were very high numbers of rape as well, creating what Australians would later refer to as creamy's or bi-racial people. The Aboriginal population was also dropped by 2/3rds.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Once again you point to Muhammad, what you don't understand is the religion is called Islam and not Muhammadians therefore your point of view is nullified as you accuse an individual.

The Koran demands 91 times that Muslims imitate Mohammed in every way.

Statistical Islam

Are you aware that he ordered people burnt to death for not praying?

Bukhari (11:626)

- "The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.'"

Muhammad orders his men to burn alive those who do not present themselves at the mosque for prayer.

www.quranexplorer.com...

It is a mistake to assume that Islam is just another religion.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
And yes each and every country, religion and race has pedophiles...

I don't assume that I was the only one hearing about the rape charges against preachers all over the world and in the Vatican?

The difference is that while the Catholic church condemns pedophiles, Islam condones them.

Muhammad had sex with his wife Aisha when she was 9 and he was 56. Hadith


It is a mistake to assume that Islam is just another religion.

reply to post by ollncasino


We all know that Christianity is the most widespread and dominant religion, as well as being the most powerful and wealthy. If you think those maps are interesting why don't you look at the whole of Asia, South America and Africa, after all they were all colonized by the western world. Now relook at the map and point out the dominant religions within each of those countries.

but maintain that it is impossible for Islam to have the same goal?

Yes it is impossible since the United Nations are already taking over.

Let us not forget that all religions have been revised and infiltrated.

I have read the Quran the Torah the bible, Next up is the Gita. I'm not closed minded and I don't believe, even if you are religious that reading other scripture is a sin.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
I have read the Quran the Torah the bible, Next up is the Gita. I'm not closed minded and I don't believe, even if you are religious that reading other scripture is a sin.

Oh good. You claimed that I had taken verses out of context.

If you have read the Koran, then you can demonstrate your knowledge by explaining what those contexts were.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by DeadSnow
You say it like your Politicians hands are clean, It's about individuals now, you cannot call all religious people fanatics. I mean America has been raping the world over the last couple decades but we don't call all American citizens blood thirsty? All your presidents have been Christians, and Hitler was Catholic!!!, Do we blame all Christians? No, then why do you judge Muslims without first looking into a mirror.

So what is your argument? Let's spread the blame around?

Other people have murdered people so who are we to condemn Islam for murdering people?

By your logic we could say, paedophiles exist in every religion (including Catholicism) so we have no right to condemn Muhammad for being a paedophile.


Muhammad married Aisha when he was 53 years old and she was only 6 years old. He had intercourse with her when she was 9 years old.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64

Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65

Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Link

edit on 30-6-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

Hey man you are using everything to condemn Islam. and not to find the truth. it seems you are a muslim that has converted to freemasonary.
the book you are quoting from is a book of Sunnies it is a history book and history is not that reliable. and not to forget that anti_christ tries to alter all religions.
do you want to know the truth! AIESHE was 17 or 18 when she married Mohammed. you can not rely on any source. most of these history are under study and not a consensus.
I can say more than it about christianity and judaism but I do not. because I know that hidden hands have tried to alter the truth. and the only truth is that all monotheistic religions are from the only God. and certainly he does not want us to kill eachother. all the differences are manmade. and satan is a great enemy of human.

Bible Deuteronomy 33:2 (New International Version, ©2011)
""" He said:The LORD came from Sinai""" there is a consensus that it is about Moses
""""and dawned over them from Seir;""" I say this is about Jesus (although jews leaders may not compeletly agree)
""" he shone forth from Mount Paran(mountains around Mecca).He came with[a] myriads(ten thousands) of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.""" whom do you think the last refers to!? (although christians and jews leaders do not agree)

Quran:The family of imran (64)
""" Say: O followers of the Book(christians and jews)! come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but God and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides God; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that to Him do we submit(the meaning of Islam)"""

and the great evidence is our wisdom and humanity.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
If you think those maps are interesting why don't you look at the whole of Asia, South America and Africa, after all they were all colonized by the western world. Now relook at the map and point out the dominant religions within each of those countries.

So you are arguing that while European civilisation dominated the globe, it is impossible that Islam would want to, despite its extensive imperialistic history?

Your logic is very special.

Koran 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Koran

Allah's Apostle said:

"I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 24

"I was ordered to fight all men until they say 'There is no god but Allah." Prophet Muhammad's farewell address, March 632

Islamic Imperialism: A History by Efraim Karsh

Yale Press

Remember, The Koran demands 91 times that Muslims imitate Mohammed in every way. Statistical Islam


It is a mistake to assume that Islam is just another religion.

reply to post by ollncasino


How is that possible when the world is already being run by "Christians"? Surely even in the outcome of a war, Muslims are outnumbered.

Originally posted by maes9
the book you are quoting from is a book of Sunnies it is a history book and history is not that reliable. and not to forget that anti_christ tries to alter all religions.

I know you are a Shiite, that's why I included the quote from Ayatollah Khomeini, exhorting Muslims to fight jihad.

Did you miss it?

Originally posted by maes9
do you want to know the truth! AIESHE was 17 or 18 when she married Mohammed. you can not rely on any source. most of these history are under study and not a consensus.

Where is your evidence for this?

My evidence that he had sex with her when she was 9 is Hadiths which are canonical to Sunni Muslims.

Sunni Muslims make up about 85%+ Muslims worldwide.

I am happy however that you reject the notion that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old. I wish more Muslims were like you.

Sadly, for the vast majority of Muslims, Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old. End of story.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
How is that possible when the world is already being run by "Christians"? Surely even in the outcome of a war, Muslims are outnumbered.

Winston Churchill made the point that it is Islam's own rejection of technology that ensures Western survival.

WINSTON CHURCHILL ON ISLAM - IN 1899!

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."

-Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).

Winston Churchill was not a big fan of Islam.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

shhh... just turn away slowly, lady, but don't make any sudden moves

aborigines aren't people, so xtian folk
[well in the beginning Oz was a penal colony sooo...] didn't terrorize nobody


OT:
so are you really gonna go with the scarf?
are you going to make a thread about it?

No new thread, I'll simply add it here.

Scarf is on and I'm heading out in about fifteen minutes.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Minnie1985

 

Yeah, I have never understood that "so Muslims are not offended" thing...lol... many Muslims I know (including myself) think the Christmas lights are beautiful....and a couple of Muslims I know even strung lights around their bushes and windows to have the community spirit during the Christmas season.

I always during the season wish everyone a Merry Christmas because it is their holiday and a joy for them.... I have never met a Muslim who would be offended! Besides, we believe in Jesus too!

We see the news, but it is so opposite to what I personally am, and what I personally know of other Muslims, that I have often wondered, well do I simply know extraordinary Muslims or are most of us just like me... and I have come to the conclusion that most really are just like me

edit on 29-6-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

I will start my reply by saying nice post and I am a Christian although I do not go to any church because most of them have corrupted the word of God and add their traditions of man which makes void the word of God .

Evil is in the hearts of most men and it is not hard to take a good man , take a certain cause and have that man do evil . The bible draws a parallel this way a little bit of yeast leavens the whole loaf of bread and evil works the same way take a little evil and sprinkle it amongst the good and evil will abound .

The Koran does just this and although the vast majority of Muslims want to live in peace , it will be the few who take one of the 149 Koranic verses on jihad to justify their actions stirring that little bit of evil to enrage the whole people to follow them into battle . A perfect example to watch play out in real life will be Mohammed Mursi in Egypt , he will insight the whole country to war against Israel to make Jerusalem his capital , his speech a couple of days ago called for sharia law and that jihad and death is our way .

So for the most part people judge the many by the actions of a few or on a personal level you can do a thousand things correct and when you screw up this is what you will be remembered for mostly . Peace and of you pray in the name of THE GOD OF ABRAHAM , ISSAC AND JACOB you will get a direct answer from God . This is a neutral calling in our religions but the correct number for an answer. Peace.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by maes9
the book you are quoting from is a book of Sunnies it is a history book and history is not that reliable. and not to forget that anti_christ tries to alter all religions.

I know you are a Shiite, that's why I included the quote from Ayatollah Khomeini, exhorting Muslims to fight jihad.

Did you miss it?

Originally posted by maes9
do you want to know the truth! AIESHE was 17 or 18 when she married Mohammed. you can not rely on any source. most of these history are under study and not a consensus.

Where is your evidence for this?

My evidence that he had sex with her when she was 9 is Hadiths which are canonical to Sunni Muslims.

Sunni Muslims make up about 85%+ Muslims worldwide.

I am happy however that you reject the notion that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old. I wish more Muslims were like you.

Sadly, for the vast majority of Muslims, Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old. End of story.

edit on 30-6-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

history about AIESHE is not that clear. from many history books like Tabari (Tarihkol Omam volume 4 page 50) it is written that all of the children of Abubakr (father of AIESHE) were born before the prophecy of Mohammed. and we know that she married him 13 years after his prophecy and regarding the years of Hijrat 4 years and adding all these together we realize that she was at least 17 years old.

Originally posted by maes9
history about AIESHE is not that clear. from many history books like Tabari (Tarihkol Omam volume 4 page 50) it is written that all of the children of Abubakr (father of AIESHE) were born before the prophecy of Mohammed. and we know that she married him 13 years after his prophecy and regarding the years of Hijrat 4 years and adding all these together we realize that she was at least 17 years old.

If that is true, then you can easily provide the sources...

reply to post by ollncasino

TextSadly, for the vast majority of Muslims, Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old. End of story.

I wish this statement was true , but since many Muslim men aspire to be like Mohammed it is not uncommon for girls that young to be married off in some of the Islamic countries .

reply to post by Murgatroid


I've just gotta ask... I know better than to get it started, but I've got to ask anyhow... How on Earth did the jesuits institute Islam? The Jesuits were formed in 1534, and chartered in 1540. Islam got it's start around 610 AD, nearly a thousand years earlier. How in the world did the Jesuits start Islam when they didn't even exist until almost a thousand years later?

I can see why Catholics would be up in arms at some cat re-writing their history like that.

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Good post, but I'm afraid those "evil" stereotypes do have some truth to them. I can't speak for other countries, but Australia has had some problems with Muslims and I don't think its a clash of cultures, for example.
In the early 2000s, there were a series of brutal rapes committed by Muslim Arab men who targetted white women. They bashed them and kept them chained up in public toilets for several days and were repeatedly raped.

Now we could put aside the fact they were Muslim and just say it was a racial motivated attack, BUT when the men were charged in court the mother of the men wearing a hijab actually spat on the female victims calling them "whores" and "they deserved it they are infidels!!!"

Australia is a country that has given refuge to many people including Muslims, but this is how they thank us?
History proves that wherever Islam has gone it has conquered the country, most of the times violently.

EDIT: I don't doubt it would be hard for a Muslim woman in the West, BUT lets turn the tables and see how Christians are treated in the Middle East - At least we don't stone you like they do!!!

edit on 29-6-2012 by CrimsonKapital because: (no reason given)

I saw this post and just had to facepalm, but then I have to say to everybody, I live in Australia too and I just want the rest of y'all to know that not all Australians are bigoted racists. Ignorance and stupidity are abundant in this country but there are some of us who do our best to stand strong against it.

To the topic creator, I am an atheist but I respect you and I hate that you have to deal with oppression and discrimination every day! It's disgusting. I do my best to fight when I see instances of it in my region. I hope one day we can fix it and live in harmony

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by maes9
history about AIESHE is not that clear. from many history books like Tabari (Tarihkol Omam volume 4 page 50) it is written that all of the children of Abubakr (father of AIESHE) were born before the prophecy of Mohammed. and we know that she married him 13 years after his prophecy and regarding the years of Hijrat 4 years and adding all these together we realize that she was at least 17 years old.

If that is true, then you can easily provide the sources...

They DID provide a source, it's quoted right there in brackets down to the page number. Maybe if you actually read their post you'd see.

Originally posted by aries4211
i have muslim buddys who try and tell me o it doesnt meen it this way but christians is there countrys are persicuted and taxed out of there ass

"Taxed out of their asses"? Are you SURE about that?

The jizyah tax is 2 1/2 percent, same as the zakat tax levied on muslims for charity work.

How much do YOU pay in taxes right now, in YOUR country?

If your in the US, how are you liking the NEW tax Obama just laid on your ass?

Or should I say is "taxing out of your ass"?