Religion is a disease

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum


Jesus certainly existed and that is a fact without a shadow of a doubt. If you want to claim otherwise you are going against everything we have written in history. In fact the radical absurd claim that he never existed is relatively new past 300 years since Darwinism took off, and then more recently with the zeitgeist deception. You do not have to believe he was God in the flesh, but claiming he never even existed is just plain dishonesty. If you can't be honest with yourself why should anyone take you seriously? Please think before you make such ill thought-out posts.I suggest you do some real unbiased research and you will discover the truth that he existed, still exists, and always has existed.

reply to post by Lionhearte

Except none of them are the same. Allah is not God of the Bible, though they claim he is because "Allah" means God. That's retarded. My friend Charles is a pretty swell dude. I don't suppose it would be logical to claim he is the same as Charles Manson? No? Why not? They share the same name..

Allah doesn't mean God. The root is from pre-islamic Arabic Al-Ilah and it just means "the god" lower case, so a minor "god" and probably more demon than god, using their symbols of the crescent moon from pre-islamic arabs it's in reference to the moongod Hu'bal/Sin/Nanna/Asimbabbar/Kusuh etc.

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel.

Allah is da Moongod, husband of Ishtar, father of al'Uzzah, al'Lat and Menat

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Jesus certainly existed and that is a fact without a shadow of a doubt. If you want to claim otherwise you are going against everything we have written in history.

Where is this history written? Oh that's right, must be true, it's in the book of primitive myths. Give me a break, the relevant parts of the bible are period fiction at best (can't believe I used relevant and bible in one sentence). This book is so riddled with the most obvious and ridiculous lies claimed as truth (ie. complete and absolute bs), that anything contained within its covers must surely come under extreme doubt.

Or can I take it you were there then? That you got his signature and all that? Everyone else seems to have missed him...funny that...It is possible (no matter how unlikely) that he existed, as there were no end of messianic religious nutters/ cult leaders around at the time. So I guess it is possible in this way. It is a certainty he didn't exist in the way Christians believe, as we know that magic like this isn't really possible outside of (the many different) religious myths and fairy stories.

I wouldn't put too much faith in your Biblical Scholars (oxymoron) either. They seem about as relevant to the world of academia as a "Peter Parker Scholar" or a "Friends Sitcom Scholar" would be. The only thing they really prove is that it can be far too easy to be given letters after your name. At least logical thought, or an understanding of the term confirmation bias, doesn't always seem to be a requirement.

Regardless of your cultish beliefs, it is possible that not all who disagree with you will be dishonest by default. That doesn't seem very Christian, but then again it does appear that your religion is founded on very obvious lies.

Claiming someone existed as a certainty, whilst not really knowing (believing fervently is not the same thing) or having anything at all by way of genuine substantiation for your claim, seems to be veering to the less than honest end of the spectrum. If you know what I mean...

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Your real problem is that you don't want to be proven wrong. I want to be proven wrong, it's what I need, it's what I seek, because what I want is the truth, not some comfortable explanation. You are indoctrinated, conditioned, you have identified yourself with those stories and now the emotional cost of letting go these childish stories is to high. So you just continue, no matter what, accumulating the contradictions in your path and you don't care. You don't care because you function on the emotional mode, you don't care about reality. It's true that there are a lot of things that we don't yet understand, it's true that there are some things that we may never understand, but that doesn't mean we can just pretend we know and pick the answers that are comfortable for us. You have to accept the ignorance, you have to know that you don't know.

reply to post by gosseyn

I want to be proven wrong, it's what I need, it's what I seek, because what I want is the truth, not some comfortable explanation.

What truth do you seek?

Perhaps i can assist you... appart from said "diseased" theme of this thread...

reply to post by Akragon


Well, you can skim through my posts and threads and see the subjects in which I am interested. For example in this thread, I said that there is no "good" and "evil" as absolute values imposed onto us by a entity/god, so far no one gave me an answer or tried to contradict me. Can you prove me wrong on that matter? I would appreciate that.

Originally posted by gosseyn
reply to post by Akragon

 

Well, you can skim through my posts and threads and see the subjects in which I am interested. For example in this thread, I said that there is no "good" and "evil" as absolute values imposed onto us by a entity/god, so far no one gave me an answer or tried to contradict me. Can you prove me wrong on that matter? I would appreciate that.

This really depends on which belief system you choose... im not here to prove you wrong though...

Perhaps just to clairify...

Good and evil are both subjective... but everyone knows generally what is "good" and what is "evil"... (its written in our hearts)

Evil does not come from God, but from man... in thought and action. God only sets the conditions for what we choose...

I actually prefer the idea of positive and negative... there is positive thoughts/actions... and negative thoughts/actions...

Generally in Abrahamic religions the flesh is "evil" and the spirit is Good... For instance if you look at examples where "satan" is involved... He leans towards materialistic wants and needs... or needs of the flesh, where as Jesus pointed towards the spirit...

reply to post by Akragon


You see, that's the point, I don't have to chose between any set of belief systems, I don't need beliefs, I want knowledge, and if there is something that we don't know, I label it as "unknown" until further knowledge.

Here's what I posted earlier on the subject

"Of course morals are subjective, but what you seem to ignore is that we are all members of the same species, and because of that fact, we share a certain number of things.
To start, we share the same brain, with the same functions. Have you ever heard about empathy, or mirror neurons ? It's what enables us to feel inside us what others may feel inside them, it's what enables us also to learn through imitating, mimicking. Everything you listed is completely explainable within the natural world, without having to resort to a magical being.
There's no "good" or "evil", but there is only suffering/pain and well-being. "Do to others as you would have them do to you" is human philosophy, and not divine commandment. It is human philosophy derived from biological constraints.

Besides, and just for the fun, in a war it is acceptable to kill someone, you can even become a "hero" for doing so. It is acceptable to kill, lie, steal, destroy, if the "others" are considered enemies, so thanks to the subjective and geometrically variable nature of morals. Also, we have seen tribes where "having sex with everyone you see" is morally acceptable and even encouraged. "

Do you agree or disagree with that ?

reply to post by gosseyn

You see, that's the point, I don't have to chose between any set of belief systems, I don't need beliefs, I want knowledge, and if there is something that we don't know, I label it as "unknown" until further knowledge.

That is how you find truth my friend...

Everyone "chooses" their beliefs... they create the world around us.

One can not have "knowledge" of something they don't believe in... but knowlege also comes with experience...

Here's what I posted earlier on the subject

"Of course morals are subjective, but what you seem to ignore is that we are all members of the same species, and because of that fact, we share a certain number of things.
To start, we share the same brain, with the same functions. Have you ever heard about empathy, or mirror neurons ? It's what enables us to feel inside us what others may feel inside them, it's what enables us also to learn through imitating, mimicking. Everything you listed is completely explainable within the natural world, without having to resort to a magical being.
There's no "good" or "evil", but there is only suffering/pain and well-being. "Do to others as you would have them do to you" is human philosophy, and not divine commandment. It is human philosophy derived from biological constraints.

Well said...

Besides, and just for the fun, in a war it is acceptable to kill someone, you can even become a "hero" for doing so. It is acceptable to kill, lie, steal, destroy, if the "others" are considered enemies, so thanks to the subjective and geometrically variable nature of morals. Also, we have seen tribes where "having sex with everyone you see" is morally acceptable and even encouraged. "

Do you agree or disagree with that ?

War is not acceptable... but it is human nature... and its based on greed, and territory. Unfortunatly those that want "possessions" do not realize, they can't take those possessions where they're going.. (and i don't mean hell )

Is it not better to love your enemies?


I agree that there are "tribes" even today that do things that are messed up... but these things stem from traditions of men... believing in traditions of men prevents "spiritual growth" so to speak...

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum



The Bible is the inspired, infallible, inherent word of God. Just because you choose to suppress your conscience it doesn't change reality. There are no contradictions in the Bible some people do not know how to read it properly. If there wasn't any evidence for Christianity then I wouldn't believe it. But the facts are the evidence for the claims made in the Bible are undeniable. God does not require blind faith, rather he requires trust and then provides evidence, if you do not take the first step in trusting him you will never accept it or believe it. You know in your heart of hearts God is real and he sent his son 2000 years ago to die for our sins. There is more evidence for the Bible then anything else in the world, and more evidence for Jesus then any other ancient figure in the world.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

Oh my goodness. I do so hope you keep an open mind, Rev. Wow.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Nah, there's more evidence for Buddha than Jesus. There's even more evidence of Mohamed than the Biblical Jesus.

The Bible isn't original, it's a mish -mash of other religions and myths that are based in metaphysical truths. So, yeah, some good wisdom is found in the Bible, but it is scarce and far between.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

Nah, there's more evidence for Buddha than Jesus. There's even more evidence of Mohamed than the Biblical Jesus.

Originally posted by randyvs

 

The historicity of Jesus of Nazareth is practically indisputable

and only a FOOL would argue otherwise.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Why are you quoting Randy?

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration


The Bible is the inspired, infallible, inherent word of God.

Please, not the old "infallible doctrine" get out of jail free clause again. Generally in the world of cultish groups/beliefs it is considered that there are no legitimate concerns capable of being raised where doctrine is concerned. No matter how obviously wrong or contradictory, it is always the persons lack of understanding. Every mind control group I have ever studied (and there have been some) has this as a central theme. It appears to be a cult standard. Christianity is no different.

There are no contradictions in the Bible

Possibly the most ridiculous claim I have ever seen on this site (IMO). That is no mean feat.

The 38,000 or so different sects, usually with their own interpretation which can even leave them openly hostile to each other, seems to defy your logic. But let me guess, you understand the "secret wisdom"?.....Of course you do.....the other 37,999 groups are wrong.....

I would say you are 37,999/38,000's of the way to the truth of it. You only need to explode one more myth.....

You know in your heart of hearts God is real and he sent his son 2000 years ago to die for our sins.

Please don't tell me what I know or how I feel.

There is more evidence for the Bible then anything else in the world, and more evidence for Jesus then any other ancient figure in the world.

This statement is up there with your previous one. There is nothing outside of scripture. The devout will accept any interpolation, forgery or anything else that could be remotely assumed to hint at his existence. Once again, this only proves how brainwashing and confirmation bias fit together like a foot in a sock.

There is every bit as much to substantiate Xenu's existence, as there is Christ (nothing).

Though I know that no one and nothing will really get through. A lot of experience with cultish groups/doctrines and their followers has taught me this much. You seem nice enough, so none of this is directed at you as a person. Though the doctrine you follow should never be exempt from scrutiny. No sacred cows of dogma should be exempt.

The bible is really nothing other than a primitive and superstitious attack on common sense.

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum
There is every bit as much to substantiate Xenu's existence, as there is Christ (nothing).

Possibly, NO... DEFINITELY, THE most ridiculous claim I have ever seen on this site...

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

There is every bit as much to substantiate Xenu's existence, as there is Christ (nothing).

Oh i wouldn't say there is no evidence for Christ existing. You see, the tombs of Simon Peter, Lazarus, Martha, Mary, Judah and other believers were found buried on the Mt. of Olive where Christ is said will return, they had his name Yeshua carved onto their ossuaries with crosses etched into them to show who they believed in. So the tombs of the Apostles are being found. Try telling the bones of people written of in the NT who actually ran around with him he doesn't exist, if they could still speak i'm pretty sure they'd call you a liar. Their tombs were discovered in the 60's but Pope Pius 12th didn't want Rome's dirty little secret that Peter was not really the first Pope and isn't buried in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome to get out so he quashed the discovery. So you see the science of archeaology is proving this all true. Refer to the first link in my signature on archeaology.

Religion is a disease of the mind

reply to post by Vrill


Arrogance is a disease of the mind.

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum
There is every bit as much to substantiate Xenu's existence, as there is Christ (nothing).

Possibly, NO... DEFINITELY, THE most ridiculous claim I have ever seen on this site...

That is because you have completely succumbed to cult indoctrination and because it disagrees with your preferred fairy tale. Though I doubt that someone who believes a person can survive for days inside a whale's digestive tract, or that an old man built a little boat and to house two of every species which he then collected before a flood fed them 40 days etc, or that an intelligent god fathered himself so that he could be nailed to a cross and threaten all with hell to show his love etc... could really see anything as ridiculous. At this point, any grip on reality is already slim and the notion of something being ridiculous obviously no longer applies.So I think you might be exaggerating.

He is every bit as historically (non) existent as Christ, his only "proof" is in cult doctrine. By Christian standards this makes him a certainty. Though luckily for you, he won't send you to hell for such blasphemy....

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

 

Jesus certainly existed and that is a fact without a shadow of a doubt. If you want to claim otherwise you are going against everything we have written in history. In fact the radical absurd claim that he never existed is relatively new past 300 years since Darwinism took off, and then more recently with the zeitgeist deception. You do not have to believe he was God in the flesh, but claiming he never even existed is just plain dishonesty. If you can't be honest with yourself why should anyone take you seriously? Please think before you make such ill thought-out posts.I suggest you do some real unbiased research and you will discover the truth that he existed, still exists, and always has existed.

Again proof please, (you can not prove it at all there is no facts) so you are the one being dishonest.
Oh and a bias Christian website is not proof.