Religion is a disease

Originally posted by boymonkey74
I don't mind Religion as long as it isn't pushed down my throat, unfortunately it is, at work we have a Christian who is forever telling us that we will goto hell if we do not accept Jesus.
If she continues I will put a complaint in cos we are all pig sick of it.

Sounds like it would be equally as boring as annoying. A bigger problem IMO is the way organised religions are prepared to brainwash young minds with their fear based superstitions. This is simply cult indoctrination and shouldn't be tolerated. If this didn't happen and it was only foisted on those genuinely mature enough to make an informed choice, no doubt it would go the way of the dodo within a few generations.

Perhaps then people could explore genuine spiritual possibilities, based on knowledge and common sense, instead of requiring their denial as a prerequisite.

reply to post by Vrill

The disease is organized religion.

Non-believers simply have not seen the truth of this world.

Wait. You will have your epiphany.

Remember the adage that the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people he doesn't exist?

I once heard someone remark that this adage applies more to God than it does to the devil.

For me, God exists in everything around us, in the world's complexity. The existence of the devil is obvious in the evil we see.

We must learn to see the world with fresh eyes. When all eyes are open we will be One.

Originally posted by knightsofcydonia
Ya thousands of years of biblical scholars studying religions in every part of the world....

And you are the one smart enough to debunk it and call it a disease.
LOL

This idea makes me question your ability to use sound judgment when analyzing evidence.

In other words, you sound like a moron. Do some research before forming such a strong opinion.

I personally find those who bash others beliefs quite repulsive.
Belief is a choice, and who's to say your reality is any more real than another's based on what they believe to be true. Believe what you want just don't impose it upon others. The ideas and concepts are already out there, you just have to be ready to receive them.

Also if ones motivation to believe in religion helps them become a better person and enjoy a more fulfilled life, why do you care? Mind your own business!

edit on 29-6-2012 by knightsofcydonia because: (no reason given)

You've just proven hin right! Anything that can make people spew out such nastiness must be a disease of some sort....or a meme, which is probably a better word. 'Moron' 'replusive' 'mind your own business!' Nasty!

Everyone in the West at least has had religion forced down our throats and now the tables are finally turning and now you are finding out what it's like to be forced to think in a different way. This period is going to be seen as the 'cruel to be kind' era because we, the atheists, are going to help you to become free from this meme that has entrapped you and billions before you.

Your religion is based on what all other religions were based on......ignorance. Your Abrahamic deity was nothing other than anthropomorphised volcanic activity. Your 'Most High' was a volcano and your 'lake of fire' a caldera of bubbling lava.

I for one feel neither you nor little kids should fear this lake of fire any longer...nor do I believe it is in your interests to focus so much energy on a meeting that is never going to happen.

'If you can't beat 'em then join 'em' springs to mind. You will not beat us because we have, for the first time since the inception of the Hebrews' religion, the permission to debunk it....and debunk it we will very soon.

reply to post by knightsofcydonia

So you are also saying those who analyze mythology are diseased as well as religious people. Well, one aspect of myths that cannot be denied is that they are ubiquitous across all countries and cultures. Every society has its own form of myths, and interestingly, often these different myths are re-tellings of central archetypal stories that are changed slightly to fit different cultures and experiences.

Interrupting my reading of the thread -- not to the end yet, but wanted to respond to this. Those who analyze mythology KNOW that it is MYTHOLOGY. A lesson, a fable, a parable, a fictitious representation of the conundrum of being human.

If modern theologists would all agree that these "ubiquitous...myths are re-tellings of central archetypal stories", and stop insisting that it's all true, it might make it more palatable to listen to. I myself love myths and legends...Star Wars, King Arthur, Beowulf...all stories. None of them are supposed to be true -- even while possibly based on once-worshipped deities (such as Hercules), everyone knows they are myths.

No one has a church devoted to the Pantheons on Mount Olympus anymore. Why not? Suppose I said, "But those gods and goddesses really exist! I've seen pictures!"....does that make it so? No, it doesn't. So, how does your thoughtful post address the fact that religiously-minded believers are not able to see that Religion is mythology as well?

I would say religion can be defined as people taking advantage of the fact that people fear the unknown... God can be known... but one certianly can't know him while religion is leading your beliefs... What happens when the blind lead the blind?

reply to post by Akragon


You're statements defines exactly how I feel about religion.

I would also identify religion with these three words. Hypocrisy, Control and Violent

although religion has been the cause of many wrongdoings, I believe that religion has a good side.
The problem is that organized religion has gone out of control

calling religion a disease implies that the correct action would be to eradicate all forms of religion.
I dont think this is the right way.
some benefits of religion out of the top of my head:
1 give hope to hopeless people
2 give morals to immoral people
I definitely see how religion can be beneficial to society. Though obviously todays mainstream organised religion is out of control and starting to create some serious world wide problems.

With that I will leave some questions for the religious people that I would like to discuss
what is the point of free will? Is it important enough to risk eternal damnation?
what is god's reason to subject us to this test?
why is "fate" so important?
why is living a good life helping others not good enough for heaven?

Religion is a visionary tool in regards to human development.
This tool built civilizations, it also destroyed them.
This tool developed its own regional characteristics and evolved to its current state of influence and distractions we know today.

Remember that systems of control will always favor divisive measures: republican/democrat, sox/cubs, crips/bloods etc.

Wipe out global poverty, give everyone a secular education, and watch religion disappear within two generations.

Never going to happen, of course. That's our tragedy.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Vrill

 

Im not sure if i would call it a disease...

I would say religion can be defined as people taking advantage of the fact that people fear the unknown...

God can be known... but one certianly can't know him while religion is leading your beliefs...

What happens when the blind lead the blind?

But are all religons blind? I agree that the Abraham religons are blinding in a way because the create duality if the person is not beyond duality already. There are religons who say it straight out what they think they can prove without promises they cannot keep. But yes thise are making you work to find your way home instead of religon who falsely say you already understand and are everything you need to be for the next stage. If you did know and are what you should know and be then why are you in between? (there will of course be people who are in between for other reasons but they are another issue alltogether)

reply to post by orhyen


Welcome to ATS, orhyen!

Religion is a visionary tool in regards to human development.

So is psychotherapy, parenting, mentoring of youth, and friendship. Why do we need to add in a long-dead human from a long-dead time in history and pretend he's still "alive"?

I'm not an atheist...probably more a Deist...but the stories and handbooks used by the organized Abrahamic religions are way, way in need of updating...or better yet....retirement. I don't understand how in this age of global information sharing, anyone who is not cloistered in a hermitage somewhere can still proudly thump their holy book and say "it's all true!"

I just don't get it. Most "tools" are considered "deadly weapons" when used in assaults. Same with baseball bats and other "toys". When "tools" have been outmoded they become relics. No longer used in daily life except perhaps by artisan purists or SCA re-enactors. Why is religion so stagnant?

I think the further away we as a species get from the tribal mentality, the less hold religion will have on people. Natural curiosity and the fact that "magical thiinking" is usually outgrown by young children (a la "do you still believe in Santa"?) seem to indicate that anyone with a balanced psyche and healthy mind would toss religious dogma out, while retaining the only important part: The Golden Rule.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Vrill
Epicurus said it best, "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?".

That argument is pathetic and disgraceful.

Vrill. God is preventing evil to the blessed loved/loving ones under his domain. The question is why are you in between and not under his domain? Are you ready to be like a loving child and not bully the other soul with your ego? Just because this place is bad do not mean everywhere in the universe is it. Please become able to be like a loving child when surrounded by the same and everything will work out.

Originally posted by gosseyn
I also think that religion is some kind of disease, a mental disease in our perceptual capabilities, in our ability to evaluate reality, and thus it influences every other decision we may take regarding any other topic. We start to have more of a tendency to accept any system of beliefs, be it in politics, economics, relationships, etc... Believe in your leader(s), believe in the current economic doctrine, you stop asking questions because you start to think that there is something unknowable that is working in the background in which all you can do is believe, have faith. You start to live in a magical world where things can or cannot happen just because it is possible to verbally voice it or phrase it, or even just imagine it. Some people say science and religion are compatible, I don't think so, they are not compatible in their premisses, and I am talking here about the scientific method, not what that or this scientist has said or done. In my opinion they are not even comparable, because the scientific method is, well, a method, a structure of learning, and religion is just content, with no real structure. The real problem is the dogma, something that never changes even if the context is completely different, the problem is "doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result". Human beings are all about learning, all we do is learn, from birth (and even before birth, in the womb ..) to death, we learn from everything that we stumble on, and all those experiences are what make us who we are, how we see ourselves, others and the universe around us. In my opinion, religion is an infantile disease, in the sense that we are far less civilised or advanced than we think, we are a young species. We are a young species because we have so much unexploited potential, and that's how I define "young".

Buddism will change if science dissproves it. Science is not the whole wisdom/knowledge since it does not seek answers everywhere for the scientist sometimes do not want to talk about things that they have a hard time proving. Yes conditioning should be questioned always whether is it is from society, religon and politicians and of course wisdom should evolve and increase. Ego veiws and smallmindedness is the real disease not only religon and that is what you are trying to cure with spiritual growth. To see beyond most dualities and see everything fo what it really is. A work in progress.

Originally posted by gosseyn
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Why don't you start to prove with at least logical arguments that "good" and "evil" are absolute values or concepts that are independent from any context and any intention/subjectivity ?

I truely love your mind.

Originally posted by sirhc0329
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Right on, I hear you. Maybe what I meant to say is this. Jesus,isnt actually "God" correct? It is believed there is a being say one level higher right? Well, THAT guy is who I meant to say is the same in all religions. Basically, Im saying I believe there is only One God. One creator, no matter what book your reading about him/her in, its the same entity. Thats why I feel religous wars are redonk. Like the youtube video said "youre from one town over so I hate your guts" .... Complete non-sense to me.

S

Is not spiritual growth meant to make you so close to god that the difference between you and god becomes to small to notice. Yes Jesus is not the whole god since you cannot be a part of something and at the same time be the whole. He is a person who find the connection to his higher self (spririt) and therefor could connect to the whole. It is true that you become one with god by becoming Christ but that is the same as becoming Buddha in Buddism. Human titles for the same connection with the spirit. I agree that religous wars are insane since religon is human views of god and sometimes not evolved enought to say anything about the whole. But people can learn to see beyond duality from Christianety also but it is from my point of view a harder road than other roads.

Originally posted by Arles Morningside
Uh-oh Vrill, you said dem things which make the 'faithful' go ka-wazy.

For me, there is no doubt of the reality of what I like to call the 'Great Mystery'. As for matters of faith, I prefer intelligent faith rather than blind faith...but I especially love to be challenged, especially what I hold most true. I also greatly appreciate aggressive challenges. I think it is unfortunate that these types of threads are not so embraced simply because they are a direct challenge to what we would otherwise like to keep taking for granted. Everything should be questioned, and explored, even if at times in a manner that is vulger or what have you...if what we hold true cannot withstand such onslaughts, they are not worth our time.

I don't think the problem is so much religion as it is people. Religion can serve as a powerful tool in helping the Journeyer grow wings, but on the flip side, it can also clip their wings or it can be used as a powerful excuse to avoid growing wings altogether.
What hurts religion is our 'baggage', what we bring to the table. Religion should be a living force but we have gotten into the habit of keeping it frozen and stagnate. It's not that the truth changes but rather our understanding of it grows and should grow.

edit on 29-6-2012 by Arles Morningside because: Because i'm tired and my poor typing skills are worse than usual.

Spot on.

Religion is run as a cult. Many fall into the trappings of god being made from the Sumerian issues that basically can't be called god in today's terms, much like the Earth isn't considered to be flat anymore. Religion now flies the flag of indoctrinations into false concepts.

freethought.mbdojo.com...

The indoctrination practices of Christianity are indistinguishable from any other cult.

When I was a child I went to church with my mother and the people there were dancing and singing, waving their hands in the air. I was expected to sing in tongues and that the gift and ability would come from the holy spirit. Naturally awkward, I decided to mimic the behavior of these strange adults for acceptance. Later I would go up on stage and observe people collapsing to the ground as the pastor smacked their forehead. When it was finally my turn and the pastor struck me after a public reaffirmation... I just stood there, staring him in the eyes and then looking over the silenced crowd.

For anyone looking for a reason why religion is increasingly becoming more stagnant and empty, or perhaps for someone in need of looking outside of the box, search for an anthropological perspective on: Betwixt and Between.
Many religions do what we do in our own little crazy ways, they just add the distinction of their culture.

The bigger question is who benefits from having this many people in a daze of imposed social norms?

(Thanks for the warm welcome wild, I've been a lurker for years and now I'm joining in)

Religion should be made illegal, it causes too many problems in the world.

It's a method of control and extortion and there is no evidence to prove god exists.

If a god exists, then what created god, and what created the entity that created god, and so on, it's infinite, so cannot be correct. Some people are just more gullible/malleable than others, and some are brainwashed from birth.

Religion does more harm than good and all that BS about the ten commandments are just basic rules that everyone would live by regardless.

Didn't the bible surface 300 years after jesus was supposed to have died?! How come religions contradict each other? Surely if it were true there could only be one religion.

Religion is a cult, and should be abolished.

Did you guys know Bruce Lee made a religious movie before he died? You can see it in its entirety here.