WAR: Iraq Survey Group Conclude, No WMD., page 2
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reply posted on 7-10-2004 @ 11:30 AM by Seekerof
No marg, whats funny is how you anti-Bush folks like to say that Bush and the Bush Administration lied when the whole freakin' world believed that Saddam had WMD! Interesting isn't it now?!
Try this video, k?
Video

If you don't want to watch the video, research it....
How is that prior to all "hell breaking loose-then and now", that the very Russia, Britain, Canada, Egypt and many other nations were claiming and providing information that Saddam had those now "non-existent" WMD's?! How about the reports non-mention of those "unreported" and "undeclared" WMD's that Saddam supposedly still had according to the UN?

Are you and others saying that those nations were/are wrong? Are you and the papers calling them 'liars' and 'incorrect'?

Let me guess, I guess it all depends on what side of the 'new' historical perspective that one takes, huh?



seekerof

[edit on 7-10-2004 by Seekerof]


reply posted on 7-10-2004 @ 02:22 PM by TrickmastertricK
In regards to the video:


"Three Intelligence angencies tell ABC News that they can't be certain what was discussed, but almost certainetly they say Bin Laden has been told he would be welcome in Baghdad."


Can't be certain, sounds like 'Speculation' to me.


"And intelligence sources say they can only speculate on the purpose of an alliance,"


Only Specualte.


"There are people prepard to commit terror in his name, who he does not even control"


Alliance, no alliance people use his name for their causes. Yhis does not insinuate that He and Saddam were allies.




Yahoo Cache

Iraq and Al Qaeda are not obvious allies. In fact, they are natural enemies. A central tenet of Al Qaeda's jihadist ideology is that secular Muslim rulers and their regimes have oppressed the believers and plunged Islam into a historic crisis. Hence, a paramount goal of Islamist revolutionaries for almost half a century has been the destruction of the regimes of such leaders as Presidents Gamal Abdel Nasser, Anwar el-Sadat and Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, President Hafez al-Assad of Syria, the military government in Algeria and even the Saudi royal family.

To contemporary jihadists, Saddam Hussein is another in a line of dangerous secularists, an enemy of the faith who refuses to rule by Shariah and has habitually murdered Sunni and Shiite religious leaders in Iraq who might oppose his regime. During the Persian Gulf war, Omar Abdel Rahman, the radical sheik now imprisoned in the United States, summed up the Islamist view when he was asked what the punishment should be for those who supported the United States in the conflict. He answered, "Both [those] who are against and the ones who are with Iraq should be killed."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.




Gulf-News.com

"Socialists are infidels wherever they are - whether in Baghdad or Aden (Yemen)," it said, but added: "It does not hurt that in current circumstances, the interests of Muslims coincide with the interests of the socialists in the war against crusaders."

The United States has used its allegations of a link between al Qaeda and Iraq to support its case against Baghdad as it prepares for possible war over Iraq's alleged banned weapons.

But Bin Laden has often criticised Saddam, whose rule has been marked by purges of Islamists. Saddam said earlier this month he had no links with al Qaeda.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.




CBS News

Rather: I understand. Mr. President, Americans are very much concerned about anyone's connections to Osama bin Laden. Do you have, have you had, any connections to Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden?

Translator For Saddam Hussein: Is this the basis of the anxiety in the minds of U.S. officials? Or is it the basis of anxiety in the minds of the people of the United States?

Rather: Mr. President, I believe I can report accurately that it's a major concern in the minds of the people in the United States.

Translator For Saddam Hussein: This issue, this topic did not appear…amongst the concerns of U.S. officials until - that is, about any relationship between Iraq and Osama bin Laden -- until recently. That is when they realized that what they had been saying about Iraq -- that Iraq was probably in possession of proscribed weapons of mass destruction -- or that Iraq might have manufactured some of those weapons after ….If that was the case, then that would be an embarrassment to the United Nations.

Then they began talking about the possibility of Iraq having relations with Osama bin Laden. Mr. Tony B- (GLITCH) actually asked me the same question, when I (UNINTEL). And I answered him, and I will answer you now very clearly. We have never had any relationship with Mr. Osama bin Laden, and Iraq has never had any relationship with Al Qaeda. And I think that Mr. Bin Laden himself has recently, in one of his speeches, given such an answer -- that we have no relation with him.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This is a very intresting interview to say the least. I do not believe Saddam Hussein to be the most 'credible' person in the world, but sometimes people do have the ability to tell the truth. This is so simple that everything is being blown up. We were led into Iraq because Saddam had 'stockpiles of WMD'. These images were then paraded in front of the UN by Colin Powell. If they were able to obtain 'these' images, don't you think common sense would be watching these sites for movement? He does not have stockpiles of WMD, which was the reason given for going to war. Again where are they? Not speculation, tangible PROOF, Images, documents, there is NOTHING. If there was we would not, and the Presedential candidates for sure, would not be arguing over this. The very possibility that we were lied to once, does not mean that it can't go on.

As ATS is a conspiracy board, and there is always talk about a One World Government, and New World Order, the above nations Seekerof mentioned could have well been using that for there own agenda. Who Knows? I know that I have not seen 'stockpiles of WMD" show up in Iraq, nor have I seen that they were moved out. Speculation, Speculation, Its Simple, Yes or No, you can't have it both ways.



reply posted on 7-10-2004 @ 03:25 PM by Muaddib



reply posted on 7-10-2004 @ 04:00 PM by Jakomo
Muaddib:
Yes, you are totally off....if i had been the US only saying these things before the war i would have to agree with you....but you keep forgetting to add that the whole world was saying the same thing. Jakomo...nice try...you and others like you keep ignoring what most of the world was saying before the war.


Okay WHAT are you talking about? The whole world was saying that Saddam had WMD?

The whole world was saying "We don't know if Saddam has WMD, but we want to give the UN inspectors more time to determine that, and we will not support an invasion of Iraq without UN approval".

I was there, where were you?

Either every intelligence agency in the world was wrong in their own reports... or those wmd are still hidden somewhere....or, it was the biggest set up to make the US a lackey to the UN...


Okay, again, WHAT are you talking about? Every intelligence agency in the world said Saddam had WMD? On THIS planet? Because the only ones who were rabid about it was the CIA, MI-6 and Mossad.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Powell repeatedly declared that they had positive proof that Saddam Hussein possessed hundreds of tons of chemical weapons, hundreds of thousands of liters of biological weapons, and a nuclear program capable of constructing a bomb in as little as a year.

UN weapons inspectors, returning to Iraq in November of 2002, had found no evidence of ANY weapons despite weeks of intensive on-the-ground investigations.

If all the intelligence agencies in the world said Saddam had WMDs, the US would have had UN support. They didn't say any such thing.

Unless you have actual documents to prove it. So I would be happy to see your info on intelligence agencies around the world that claimed they had information that Saddam had WMDs.

jako


reply posted on 7-10-2004 @ 04:02 PM by AceOfBase
Originally posted by Muaddib
Have you heard about the UN resolution 1441? Didn't we go in under the conditions of that resolution and that's why we have a coalition?


Have you heard who wrote UN resolution 1441?

State.gov
SECRETARY POWELL: It has been clear from the very beginning -- you know, I am one of the principal authors of 1441, and for better or worse, I can take some credit for having been one of its champions as we drove it through the United Nations Security Council process for a period of seven and a half weeks.
And we always insisted on three elements to that: one, Iraq is in material breach; two, this is their last chance; there
have to be serious consequences. And those serious consequences meant the use of force. And you've heard me say
that repeatedly, repeatedly. And I've also said that if the international community through the UN, when the time comes,
does not wish to use force, the United States reserves its right as a sovereign nation to make a judgment within this
clear record of violation to use force alongside likeminded nations who might wish to be part of such a coalition.
So I have been consistent throughout this entire process. And as I've watched the process unfold, I have watched Iraq
go by every exit ramp -- diplomatic exit ramp -- that was put there for them. They could have made a full, complete and
accurate declaration in December, which would have given us some confidence that they were serious about
disarmament. Instead, they gave us 12,200 pages of nothing very useful.


Saddam's violations include, amongst other things, not admitting that he had WMD.
Powell stated the following: If the Iraqi regime was
truly committed to disarmament, we wouldn't be looking for these mobile labs. They'd drive them up and park them in
front of UNMOVIC headquarters for inspection.


That really put him into a tough situation, either admit you have WMD and show them to us or you'll be invaded. How can he comply with that if he didn't have them?

They asked for information on his weapons programs and he gave it to them but they said it wasn't good enough because it didn't mention the WMD programs that he may not have even had.



reply posted on 7-10-2004 @ 08:19 PM by TrickmastertricK


Yahoo

President Bush (news - web sites) and his vice president conceded Thursday in the clearest terms yet that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) had no weapons of mass destruction, even as they tried to shift the Iraq (news - web sites) war debate to a new issue — whether the invasion was justified because Saddam was abusing a U.N. oil-for-food program.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


NOW can you say he had no WMD's?
and I don not remember the Oil for Food program being the reason we had to go to war.

[edit on 7-10-2004 by TrickmastertricK]


reply posted on 7-10-2004 @ 08:33 PM by Muaddib
Originally posted by Jakomo
Okay WHAT are you talking about? The whole world was saying that Saddam had WMD?

I was there, where were you?


Let me help you a bit Jakomo...to see that you are wrong...

Prime Minister Paul Martin says he believes Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and they've fallen into terrorists' hands. Martin said the threat of terrorism is even greater now than it was following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, because terrorists have acquired nuclear, chemical and biological weapons from the toppled Iraqi leader.

"The fact is that there is now, we know well, a proliferation of nuclear weapons, and that many weapons that Saddam Hussein had, we don't know where they are," Martin told a crowd of about 700 university researchers and business leaders in Montreal. "That means terrorists have access to all of that."


Excerpted from.
cnews.canoe.ca...

BTW in case you don't know the above is the Prime Minister of Canada.

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002


Excerpted from.
www.globalpolicy.org...


Let me also add what some other people were saying.....

BTW, do read the following before John Edwards tells his people to remove it...

I'm here to speak in support of the resolution before us, which I cosponsored. I believe we must vote for this resolution not because we want war, but because the national security of our country requires action. Mr. President, the prospect of using force to protect our security is the most difficult decision a nation must ever make.

We all agree that this is not an easy decision. It carries many risks. If force proves necessary, it will also carry costs, certainly in resources, and perhaps in lives. After careful consideration, I believe that the risks of inaction are far greater than the risks of action.

Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal.


Excerpted from.
edwards.senate.gov...


"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." --- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998


Excerpted from.
portland.indymedia.org...

To read some more about Ritter's change of view.... on the threat of Saddam and its wmd click here


Lets see some other evidence on this.


DAMASCUS, Syria — A Syrian trading company with close ties to the ruling regime smuggled weapons and military hardware to Saddam Hussein between 2000 and 2003, helping Syria become the main channel for illicit arms transfers to Iraq despite a stringent U.N. embargo, documents recovered in Iraq show.
............
Other gaps in Washington's efforts to stem the flow of black-market weapons and missile technology to outlaw states emerged this month when Libya revealed that it had procured medium-range missiles and prohibited nuclear technology despite U.S. and U.N. sanctions.


Excerpted from.
www.latimes.com...

And if you want to see a complete list of the countries that were helping Saddam despite sanctions....as well as what kind of technology was smuggled, or they were trying to smuggle, by these countries into Iraq..

You can find all the named countries from page 272-289. Many of the countries mentioned in this report were selling or trying to procure banned parts and banned weapons systems and technology that were possible breaches of UN sanctions.

The countries mentioned in this report are: France, North Korea, Russia, Belarus, Bulgary, Yugoslavia, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, China, Czech Republic, and India.

www2.cia.gov...

Humm...i wonder what countries were against the war.....and the reasons why they were against it....


[edit on 7-10-2004 by Muaddib]
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