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Is Death An Illusion? Evidence Suggests Death Isn’t the End

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posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by Myollinir
 


Good point. The only way I can figure it is that 'something' (soul or spirit?) must occupy the brain and use our senses as 'tools'. When we die those tools are no longer available and new ones must be employed, ones which do not require a body. Logical? Until I get a better answer it is for me?

When you change occupations you require/acquire an entirely new skill set.

Just my speculation, I can not prove a thing.




posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by oghamxx
 

I like to think of it this way. Imagine that the brain is the computer and the soul is just software that runs in the brain. The brain is just the interface that enables us to decode this 3D reality.

I can't prove this, but it's interesting to think about, and makes sense to me anyways.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by xAlbinoniblAx
 


Good post.

I have often pondered E=MC2. The C2 bothers me. Speed, any speed, feet per second or miles per hour or light years requires both space and time. Can there be a universe without time? IMO not if the past, present and future are an illusion

".....know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."

Dr. Lanza has stated that 'time' is a measurement of EVENTS. I need to digest that further.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by R0CR13
 


Yep and well spoken.

I don't talk about it much...what led me there was my fault.....

I agree with the posts you made, And The O.P.


When you cross once or twice...... your perspective has a tendancey of sharpening a little.

You deffinately sweat the small stuff like spelling a lot less..... and you know . the time left on the clock? Am I not right?

Cheers! I'm sure you use it to the full...an over full cup.

Cheers to you, peace and a hope to run into your kind in future....



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Treespeaker
reply to post by R0CR13
 


When you cross once or twice...... your perspective has a tendancey of sharpening a little.

You deffinately sweat the small stuff like spelling a lot less..... and you know . the time left on the clock? Am I not right?


This is exactly the reason I think we are biologically programmed to have these experiences when we stress too much, or nearly die.

It's so that we can come back, and have a renewed sense of faith. It's also a means to bring about culture/religion/artist ideas to other people. It has a function, else it wouldn't exist.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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I think there are 4 possibilities:

1. "We" are not physical beings, we are some sort of energy that is immortal and housed in this physical body. This existence is something like the game "second life" and when we die, we simply exit out and into wherever we really are. Not sure why we would be here but maybe imortality is very boring and you simply have to experience every form of existance to pass the time. Like maybe next time you will be a piece of granite for 12 billion years. Or a water molecule on Jupiter.

2. There is no afterlife, we just switch off and no longer exist. Difficult to accept but entirely possible. Because our consciousness has never experienced non existence, and thus there is no frame of reference, we find it hard to accept.

3. The religions of the world are accurate to some degree, we are here to learn and be judged, after which there will be some sort of reward or punishment. Again its wierd to think you would be rewarded/punished for trillions of years for an infinitesmally brief life on this little planet. But maybe

4. This is just a simulation, we are just pixels in someones computer.
edit on 27-6-2012 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


I find that completely true.

I have started and completed a few works....recoginized and not.

I feel now a field of influence that I didn't before, a sence of urgency, and yes faith in a power higher than myself, more than before.

It translated to an ability to raise those near me to a better possition at my cost.

I feel this is more than adaquate as time is a short matter all in all. And could have been shorter but a choice or two...

Cheers to you !



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


"Show me one case of anything existing after death (outside of a book) as a soul, as ether, or without a body. I might be inclined to agree with the OP."

Is it fair to say your position is that if our primitive 5 senses can not detect it then it does not exist?

Can you explain why every cat I have owned, that being 3, when stared at from afar, either while asleep or facing away, will awaken and look back at me with a 'what do you want' look. How do salmon return to die in the very creek where they were spawned. The world is full of mysteries but you seem to accept nothing as possible unless it can stimulate your physical senses.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by oghamxx
 


You sences are the key to your door?

Yos cannot denismise the sences....

Peace.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Xaphan
reply to post by oghamxx
 

I like to think of it this way. Imagine that the brain is the computer and the soul is just software that runs in the brain. The brain is just the interface that enables us to decode this 3D reality.

I can't prove this, but it's interesting to think about, and makes sense to me anyways.


I think that the brain and the body is the computer and coding + software(dna..etc.) and the energy is the electricity.. the soul is the fusion between the coding of the dna, the body brain make up and energy.. that gives unique character to each individual but the fundamental thing that we all share is the energy..which is one and runs through all. Like an oak tree is different from a pine tree and 2 oak trees differ from each-other even though they're the same kind.. they dont need a soul to be different, just a separate existence that runs on the inherited coding throughout evolution.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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"Could the mind be a machine that interprets information? An exquisite if not the most elaborate result of constant evolution, adaption & natural selection of the life on earth that developed into what we call the “I”. What is the “I” a mechanism (body,mind,emotions,senses) that is in a constant loop that sorts and labels information? And then Identifies with the information as part of self. What is ego? Where do “I” start and where do “I” end -> Am I still “I” without body parts? How much of me has to be missing for me to let the body go? If I face pain, I wouldnt want to stay within this fading shell, if I overridden with guilt of leading a bad life then you could say on my death bed “I” would have a hard time letting go “things” that “I” consider myself to be? Its not I who fades away from the body its the body that fades away from me, starting at birth."

~ Sergei Podosenov



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by metatronobody

Originally posted by Xaphan
reply to post by oghamxx
 

I like to think of it this way. Imagine that the brain is the computer and the soul is just software that runs in the brain. The brain is just the interface that enables us to decode this 3D reality.

I can't prove this, but it's interesting to think about, and makes sense to me anyways.


I think that the brain and the body is the computer and coding + software(dna..etc.) and the energy is the electricity.. the soul is the fusion between the coding of the dna, the body brain make up and energy.. that gives unique character to each individual but the fundamental thing that we all share is the energy..which is one and runs through all. Like an oak tree is different from a pine tree and 2 oak trees differ from each-other even though they're the same kind.. they dont need a soul to be different, just a separate existence that runs on the inherited coding throughout evolution.


Although now that I think about it.. something has to start the snowball(effect).. right?.. could it be a combination of particles or whatever it may be find each other in the sea of potential to make a unique "thing" that evolves over time.. i guess it doesnt necessary mean its a soul.. but human isnt a tree and is pretty unique.. what gave it/us the beginning of beginnings that makes us what we are now.. apart from the initial seed.. how deep does the rabbit hole go?? maybe a microscope wont cut it.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by openminded2011
 




4. This is just a simulation, we are just pixels in someones computer



.Okay, this one gives me the chills.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by oghamxx
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


"Show me one case of anything existing after death (outside of a book) as a soul, as ether, or without a body. I might be inclined to agree with the OP."

Is it fair to say your position is that if our primitive 5 senses can not detect it then it does not exist?

Can you explain why every cat I have owned, that being 3, when stared at from afar, either while asleep or facing away, will awaken and look back at me with a 'what do you want' look. How do salmon return to die in the very creek where they were spawned. The world is full of mysteries but you seem to accept nothing as possible unless it can stimulate your physical senses.


That's a fair assumption, but untrue. I neither haven't experienced no perceived anything that constitutes life after death. No ones has. So what is someone to do in this case? Blindly believe the claims of others as you do? I know I'm not the only one who is capable and confident enough to trust his own conclusions before the conclusions of others.

No one here is dead. Therefore, no one here can logically say, without lying to themselves at some point, that there is an afterlife. All I hear is people who think they were dead at some point, who, while their brain was under extreme amounts of turbulence and stress, happened to maybe experience something out of the ordinary. This doesn't explain anything at all. It only shows that their body and brain was under considerable enough amount of stress. How can we not at least accept the possibility that this was the cause of "trips to the afterlife and back?"



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by metatronobody

Originally posted by metatronobody

Originally posted by Xaphan
reply to post by oghamxx
 

I like to think of it this way. Imagine that the brain is the computer and the soul is just software that runs in the brain. The brain is just the interface that enables us to decode this 3D reality.

I can't prove this, but it's interesting to think about, and makes sense to me anyways.


I think that the brain and the body is the computer and coding + software(dna..etc.) and the energy is the electricity.. the soul is the fusion between the coding of the dna, the body brain make up and energy.. that gives unique character to each individual but the fundamental thing that we all share is the energy..which is one and runs through all. Like an oak tree is different from a pine tree and 2 oak trees differ from each-other even though they're the same kind.. they dont need a soul to be different, just a separate existence that runs on the inherited coding throughout evolution.


Although now that I think about it.. something has to start the snowball(effect).. right?.. could it be a combination of particles or whatever it may be find each other in the sea of potential to make a unique "thing" that evolves over time.. i guess it doesnt necessary mean its a soul.. but human isnt a tree and is pretty unique.. what gave it/us the beginning of beginnings that makes us what we are now.. apart from the initial seed.. how deep does the rabbit hole go?? maybe a microscope wont cut it.


Could it be that the soul is a different type of potential energy that creates the initial seed?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 


So you're saying a brain can exist on its own and perceive without the body? Wouldn't blood and oxygen need to go through the brain in order for that to happen? Wouldn't you need skin to touch? Eyes to see? Ears to hear? A nose to smell? The spine and nervous system can be discarded?

I'd like to see how long someone will last as a brain without a body.


No, sir. I'm not to sure how you got that out of that. Your nose, eyes, ear, hands, and whatever else do not to the perceiving. Your brain does. They are just antennas. They send the signal to your brain and your brain creates this image for you to experience. What I am saying is that all of your reality merely exists inside of your brain. The sounds you hear only exist in your brain. The sights you see only exist in your brain. So on and so on in that fashion. They make exist physically somewhere else but you only experience these things directly inside of your brain. That being said, your mind is also being experienced inside of your brain, but who knows where the voice really comes from.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:29 AM
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No one here is dead. Therefore, no one here can logically say, without lying to themselves at some point, that there is an afterlife. All I hear is people who think they were dead at some point, who, while their brain was under extreme amounts of turbulence and stress, happened to maybe experience something out of the ordinary. This doesn't explain anything at all. It only shows that their body and brain was under considerable enough amount of stress. How can we not at least accept the possibility that this was the cause of "trips to the afterlife and back?"



I found Eben Alexander's account of NDE particularly convincing - www.lifebeyonddeath.net... (sorry, haven't worked out how to do the linky thing yet!)

Dr Alexander is an academic and neurosurgeon of 25 years standing.As a mainstream brain scientist he was a skeptic materialist. He experienced an NDE, much to his surprise. It changed his whole life and thinking.

It's also illuminating to hear/read the opinions of other doctors too: Pim van Lommel is particularly interesting. Melvin Morse, who works as a pediatrician with very ill children. Bruce Greyson, Also PMH Atwater.

Thing is, many hundreds of thousands of people experience these NDEs which, without exception apparently, leave them convinced of 'heaven's gate' (or more rarely 'hell's gate').



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by oghamxx
reply to post by pigsy2400
 


Firstly I claim nothing. I am only the messenger. Dr. Lanza makes the claims which I find plausible.

I suggest you visit www.robertlanzabiocentrism.com...
and read the ENTIRE article. It includes brief descriptions of several experiments which you may want to take under consideration as 'evidence'.

If they do not meet your criteria for evidence allow me to further suggest that you read a few of the many articles by Dr. Lanza listed along the right side of his web site. Please note that I have only read a few of them myself and am thus unable to suggest which ones might influence you thinking on this subject.



Since you've started a thread claiming to have evidence of death not being the end (of consciousness?), why don't you provide a summary of this evidence in Lanza's experiments, rather than make anybody go on a wild goose chase to read some tedious articles? Reading through this thread and finding no evidence of some sort of consciousness after death is tedium enough, thanks. I'm not going to waste anymore of my time looking up something you CLAIM provides evidence.

That you aren't supplying this evidence tells me all I need to know, i.e. you're just spouting mumbo-jumbo and have no evidence to back up your claims.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


Fair enough, a brain under stress is a possibility. Are there other possibilities? Is it not also a possibility that shedding or being deprived of our 5 senses then 'makes room' or opens the door for other, latent, senses to come to the forefront?

Your point of contention is 'death', being a popular time for extrasensory experiences to occur. Have you experienced or do you accept others having experienced extrasensory talent, ability or experiences short of death? If so, are these also in your opinion manifestations of a brain under stress?

I have great difficulty accepting incidents of young children (or adults under hypnosis) who provide details of past lives being attributed to a brain under stress. IMO something survived death and occupied another body. Ditto for deja vu.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by oghamxx
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


Fair enough, a brain under stress is a possibility. Are there other possibilities? Is it not also a possibility that shedding or being deprived of our 5 senses then 'makes room' or opens the door for other, latent, senses to come to the forefront?


It is a possibility. But even if it was latent, or more primitive as you'd like to call them, it would still be a process of the brain and body.



Your point of contention is 'death', being a popular time for extrasensory experiences to occur. Have you experienced or do you accept others having experienced extrasensory talent, ability or experiences short of death? If so, are these also in your opinion manifestations of a brain under stress?

I have met people who have claimed they had extrasensory talent. They of course couldn't produce it when asked. Also, they never sought a scientist or doctor to document these powers. It is only their word they could offer. For me, that is not enough.

I have seen many die. I have been around death. But every single time I've never seen any lights, spirit or ghosts. I never felt any out-of-the-ordinary changes in temperature. So I would have to assume that if the dying was experiencing anything at all, it was happening entirely in his head.



I have great difficulty accepting incidents of young children (or adults under hypnosis) who provide details of past lives being attributed to a brain under stress. IMO something survived death and occupied another body. Ditto for deja vu.

Then you shouldn't accept them at all, or at least suspend judgement on the matter. If you're swayed by the claims of children and others so easily, you should then consider relying somewhat on your senses for at least some substantiation. Thoughts are deceiving. I can imagine a flying dragon in my head without ever seeing one. If I were to claim to have seen a dragon, will you give me the benefit of the doubt if I acted innocent enough for it to seem true? Maybe you are much more trusting than I—which isn't a bad thing, except there is a fine line between being trusting and being naive.

Deja Vu I have experienced and I have no explanation for.




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