What Stand Down Did Cheney Order?

OP, even if he didn't give the standdown, listen to this. NORAD can scramble f-16's and handle a hijacking within 15 minutes. On 9/11, it took an hour for NORAD to respond, and the f-16's were flying everywhere on bogus radar signatures.

Not to mention just look at the photos from the pentagon. The report said the whole plane dinstigerated, leaving only a few parts of the "plane" Right, planes don't do that by the way, there would be engines, wings, the hull and all sorts of eveidence to be left behind. The photo of the pentagon that day was hilarious. It looked like an FBI agent literally put a small peice of metal there to convince the public.

Not only that, look at these pics and draw your own conclusions.













Now you can't honestly believe that a plane crashed into the Pentagon right? Or how about wtc7? There is bull# covered all over 9/11 and I'm surprised people still believe in the original story. Oh well, just like JFK.

Originally posted by Kang69
it took an hour for NORAD to respond,

My, that's a long time, isn't it? Would you mind specifying that 1 hour time frame. From when to when is your claim. Once you do that I'd then like to see a source for that.

Originally posted by Kang69
and the f-16's were flying everywhere on bogus radar signatures.

But, you just said there was a "stand down". If there was a "stand down" how could F-16's be flying everywhere?

Originally posted by Kang69
Not only that, look at these pics and draw your own conclusions.

Thanks, I just did, but I have a question. What is all of that stuff in the hallway piled up outside there by the punch out hole?

In this photo:

Originally posted by Kang69
There is bull# covered all over 9/11 and I'm surprised people still believe in the original story.

The only bull# I can find is what you wrote in your post.

Originally posted by poppycock
What on God's green earth is the upside to defending the official story anymore? Makes no sense to me how foolish one could be to not have figured out the official story is ridiculous and indefensible.....but you keep doing it but, for what reason in incomprehensible to me. If your getting paid to do it, that's cool ya got to feed your family but, I hope you got a cabin in an underground base or ride off-planet somewhere too.

It's that type of attitude that keeps me coming back, "defending" the official story. You are so sure that you're right, that you group anyone who disagrees into a little box of weirdos who you say are being paid to do it.

Eventually, you have to accept that we're just regular people who represent those that do not believe the conspiracy blindly. Truth will come out, and whether it's the conspiracy or not, there needs to be both sides to move forward.

He never said "stand down." He said the orders still stand. Which seems to mean that there was no change in order as the flight came closer to the Pentagon. Which seems to mean that they talked about the flight coming to and hitting the Pentagon.

reply to post by Reheat


You fail at reading comprehension. I never said there was a stand down. I think a stand down never happened, regardless, about the picture.

What's all the stuff piled up? The debris from the building obliviously. I'm guessing your saying that's the debris from a plane. I'm also assuming you have a logical explanation for that hole in the wall that's far away from the crash site? Maybe an engine? That's pretty convenient, the whole plane disintegrates, but an engine manages to pass through wall after wall to make a good sized hole.

How do you explain the plane exactly? Did it fully disintegrate? You can't be this narrow minded. Planes do not fully disintegrate, they leave huge structures behind, wings, hull, the list goes on and on. And, as you can see from the photo, (and others on the web) there is just a few pieces of metal on the ground.

Let's look at reality here.

These are from Nigeria, where an aliner crashed and killed over 150 people.












There is evidence all over the place.

You can contiune to ignore reality, or look at past events.

Now if you can bring me pictures of a plane fully disintegrating, I'll rest my case.

Oh and btw, the shanksville crash.






Oh wait, I see the plane, never mind, go back to bed, American idol is on. Also, I would love to talk to you about WTC7 if you have the time, I know shills have a tough time with that one.

Oh and and one of the hijackers passport managed to drop peacefully from the WTC crash to the street and that's how they identified him. Man those RIFD chip passports are strong as hell!

reply to post by Kang69


You failed to answer my first and primary question. Was that intentional or did you just forget?

You obviously don't know enough to have an intelligent discussion. There were no walls between the outer wing and the punch out hole at the Pentagon on the two floors impacted. When you grow up you might learn to get information from sites other that those that sell DVD's and t-shirts.

You also don't understand the difference between a slow speed controlled crash versus one which slams into a reinforced building at over 800 fps.

Nah, I'm not interested in discussing anything with someone so ignorantly informed. Now, go play with the other girls, I have better things to do than bicker with someone so ignorant of facts...

reply to post by 911files


The stand down order was given June 1 2011 . Donald Rumsfeld issued that order from Vice Admiral Fry . GW Bush was a face man and Cheney to put it nice ran things . Order CJCSI 3601.01A superseded order CJCSI 3601.01 where no authorization was needed to take action against hijacked aircraft . The new order complicated and hindered response time by requiring the Secretary of Defense approval to take action concerning hijacked or derelict aircraft . The Vice Admiral and Rumsfeld took orders from Cheney who shouldn't have been running anything much less the military . His job is to wait for the president to expire and then take the helm . Whether you send the fighters away on maneuvers , or as he did clutter the radar with bogus targets , or restrict response with red tape NORAD was restrained . What the hell is a burned out CFR chairman doing running a maneuver . What was to be gained by it . Was he better than the military men that were fully qualified to do so . Why were the NORAD officials not there with Cheney in case something went wrong . Where was the chain of command
Then what did Cheney mean by what America needs is a Pearl Harbor ??????

reply to post by Reheat


Look, I got that information from a video a while back, and I must admit, it was dumb to say that and not give a source. So I admit that information could be false for not having the info to back it up. That does not kill the whole case though.

Now, by your comment, you seem to be an expert on plane crashes. Your saying that a plane can completely disintergrate at a certain speed according to xyz? Explain. I would love to hear it.

Planes do not fully disintergrate, oh and by the way, the shanksville photo. You can't honestly beleive a plane crashed there and again fully disintergrated and left a few peices of metal?

Again, I providied you with some evidiennce of a REAL plane crash, can you give me a photo of a plane fully disintegrating?

Can you give me a photo of a skyscraper falling due to fire? Man, honestly It thought you would be better then this, instead of telling me to play with girls and hold your self on a high horse? Seriously?




















You get the point, you can find tons of these photos online, and there is not one case of a plane fully disintegrating. It's the same as WTC7, the first skyscraper to fall to fire. Man 9/11 has some juicy coincidences doesn't it!

Oh and your comment about the wall thing. Look at the photo again. I'm having a hard time trying to understand what your saying. There is 1 major section in between the crash and the hole. Are you talking about the spaces in between?

Wait, I'm an unintelligent truther, I don't deserve to be in your presence. You can continue your slander, or provide some evidence of your claims. For example, a plane fully disintegrating, and a skyscraper falling due to fire. (if you say wtc7 i will spew milk from my nose)

Thanks.

Originally posted by Kang69
You can continue your slander, or provide some evidence of your claims. For example, a plane fully disintegrating,

You do know that tail sections on Boeing 767/757's are made from carbon fiber. Carbon fiber shatters on impact.

If you are looking for the tail sections of the planes, this is what you should be looking for.

Originally posted by 911files
Here is the historical record of our air defense response, radar and recorded "as it happened" audio of the air defense response to the Pentagon attack. Although only 2 fighters were on standby at Langley for air defense, they launched three (one unarmed). Now please, point out to me in that historical record where this "stand down" took place.

edit on 24-6-2012 by 911files because: (no reason given)

I do agree with you that "the stand down order" was most likely never given literally. In my opinion there were too much going on at the same time and the military was overwhelmed and at times confused with what was happening due to the scheduled drills with almost the same scenarios. I think that to most people (including myself) it seems nuts that there were no air defense for the Pentagon, and TPTB pretty much have zero credibility with people who pay attention to current events.

I personally feel that 9/11 wouldn't be possible without help on the inside. I don't know who or what kind of help they had but no terrorist could have known about all the weaknesses in defense of this country on that day. The hijackers made so many mistakes for example using their real names for everything they were doing, drawing attention to themselves all over the place, all the way up to 9/11 they acted like they had nothing to worry about. Plus at least two of them lived with an FBI informant. History proves beyond any doubt that the government lie about pretty much everything they do. And the stonewalling the investigation and the cover up didn't help either.

I appreciate the information you bring to us and I hope you continue to do so. People need to know what happened that day. But just like some "debunkers" that will not admit that they are wrong about something , there are some "truthers" who won't admit to being wrong. It gets frustrating and stupid at times but what you gonna do..

reply to post by waypastvne


Landing gear , engines , wing spars and carry through s don't just disappear . Actually the plane was shot down . An engine was located about a mile short of the supposed crash site . There would be substantial debis around the crash site as with all crashes . The only crash not to leave debris was the crash in the Everglades Swamp . There would also be blood and body parts . The jet did not go into the ground in one piece

reply to post by lambs to lions


Anything is possible, but there were only two birds in the air.
They both flew over my head and out to sea. Literally.
So they were miles away concerning that stand down order.
Hundreds of miles away, past Long Island Sound.
No where near D.C.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by 911files

 

The stand down order was given June 1 2011 . Donald Rumsfeld issued that order from Vice Admiral Fry . GW Bush was a face man and Cheney to put it nice ran things . Order CJCSI 3601.01A superseded order CJCSI 3601.01 where no authorization was needed to take action against hijacked aircraft . The new order complicated and hindered response time by requiring the Secretary of Defense approval to take action concerning hijacked or derelict aircraft . The Vice Admiral and Rumsfeld took orders from Cheney who shouldn't have been running anything much less the military . His job is to wait for the president to expire and then take the helm . Whether you send the fighters away on maneuvers , or as he did clutter the radar with bogus targets , or restrict response with red tape NORAD was restrained . What the hell is a burned out CFR chairman doing running a maneuver . What was to be gained by it . Was he better than the military men that were fully qualified to do so . Why were the NORAD officials not there with Cheney in case something went wrong . Where was the chain of command
Then what did Cheney mean by what America needs is a Pearl Harbor ??????

Each and every day you win the prize for the most preposterous post chocked full of false information. You are truly a poster child for the "truth movement" or you're a debunker in disguise making the "truth" look like the idiots most of them are. Congratulation, you win again today!

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by waypastvne

 

Landing gear , engines , wing spars and carry through s don't just disappear . Actually the plane was shot down . An engine was located about a mile short of the supposed crash site . There would be substantial debis around the crash site as with all crashes . The only crash not to leave debris was the crash in the Everglades Swamp . There would also be blood and body parts . The jet did not go into the ground in one piece

The starboard engine was located in the impact crater. The port engine was found in the retention pond 600 yards past the crater.


95% of the aircraft was recovered, and the plane was in one piece at the time of impact.

Sorry but those are the facts.

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by Reheat

 

Look, I got that information from a video a while back, and I must admit, it was dumb to say that and not give a source. So I admit that information could be false for not having the info to back it up. That does not kill the whole case though.

No, the garbage you posted regarding a 1 hour response time NORAD not only could be false it is definitely false. Typically, you just made it up to sound like a big bad boy to make your fantasy continue. It kills anything else you have to say on the subject of NORAD as it proves you have no clue. You're like most other "truthers" simply an internet junkie with nothing else to do, but get you're jollies posting claptrap on Web Sites.

Originally posted by Kang69
Now, by your comment, you seem to be an expert on plane crashes. Your saying that a plane can completely disintergrate at a certain speed according to xyz? Explain. I would love to hear it.

No, I'm not an expert on plane crashes and never pretended that I was. I have, however, picked up little bits and pieces of friends who crashed while in the service of their Country.

I did not say that a plane can completely disintegrate at all.....YOU DID! You're really not worth the effort it would take to explain anything in a rational manner. So, run along and do your thing and I won't bother you again, unless you post more claptrap to get your jollies...

Originally posted by Kang69
Planes do not fully disintergrate, oh and by the way, the shanksville photo. You can't honestly beleive a plane crashed there and again fully disintergrated and left a few peices of metal?

You are very confused about what credible people have said about the crashes to which you refer. It really doesn't matter what you "honestly" believe. You've proven that your opinion is irrelevant by your comments already.

Originally posted by Kang69
Again, I providied you with some evidiennce of a REAL plane crash, can you give me a photo of a plane fully disintegrating?

No, I'm not in the habit of doing research for people who think they already know all of the answers. If you are truly interested you might google PSA 1771. That's about the most similar of those I recall off hand.

Originally posted by Kang69
Can you give me a photo of a skyscraper falling due to fire? Man, honestly It thought you would be better then this, instead of telling me to play with girls and hold your self on a high horse? Seriously?

Yes, seriously. Sorry, I don't have an example of a skyscraper that was hit by a giant missile known as a Commercial Airliner almost full of fuel and weighting around 100 tons while traveling in the vicinity of 500 mph. There just aren't any other examples of which I am aware.

Originally posted by Kang69
You get the point, you can find tons of these photos online, and there is not one case of a plane fully disintegrating.

I'm not surprised at all. (See above)

Originally posted by Kang69
Oh and your comment about the wall thing. Look at the photo again. I'm having a hard time trying to understand what your saying. There is 1 major section in between the crash and the hole. Are you talking about the spaces in between?

Why don't you do some research on how that section of the Pentagon was constructed before you go spouting off again about the number of walls the aircraft had to penetrate from it's entry to the "punch out" hole.

Originally posted by Kang69
Wait, I'm an unintelligent truther,

You may be. I don't really know. All I have to judge is by what you say in your posts. That truly speaks for itself.

Originally posted by Kang69
I don't deserve to be in your presence. You can continue your slander, or provide some evidence of your claims. For example, a plane fully disintegrating, and a skyscraper falling due to fire. (if you say wtc7 i will spew milk from my nose)

Maybe. I really didn't make any claims. I corrected yours tho' with facts that are very easy to find. So, now you're a lawyer too, are you? Again, you said a plane fully disintegrated, I didn't. You continue to be very confused. Please, stick to one subject at a time. It really doesn't take that much concentration and is much easier for readers to follow if you do...

Originally posted by waypastvne

95% of the aircraft was recovered, and the plane was in one piece at the time of impact.

Sorry but those are the facts.

I know this "no plane crashed in Shanksville" bit is so ridiculous that it's tantamount to being the result of a bet between Dylan Avery and Alex Jones to see how many people they can sucker into believing something so bizarre, but would you happen to have any sources for the 95% recovered claim?

reply to post by Reheat

Doing a Google images of the PSA crash leads to a few pictures od how small the debris was.

But it stands out against the green grass background. Unlike being mixed in with building remains.

Also there is a pic of the reconstruction efforts. Mighty small pieces.

Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by 911files

 

The stand down order was given June 1 2011 . Donald Rumsfeld issued that order from Vice Admiral Fry . GW Bush was a face man and Cheney to put it nice ran things . Order CJCSI 3601.01A superseded order CJCSI 3601.01 where no authorization was needed to take action against hijacked aircraft . The new order complicated and hindered response time by requiring the Secretary of Defense approval to take action concerning hijacked or derelict aircraft . The Vice Admiral and Rumsfeld took orders from Cheney who shouldn't have been running anything much less the military . His job is to wait for the president to expire and then take the helm . Whether you send the fighters away on maneuvers , or as he did clutter the radar with bogus targets , or restrict response with red tape NORAD was restrained . What the hell is a burned out CFR chairman doing running a maneuver . What was to be gained by it . Was he better than the military men that were fully qualified to do so . Why were the NORAD officials not there with Cheney in case something went wrong . Where was the chain of command
Then what did Cheney mean by what America needs is a Pearl Harbor ??????

Each and every day you win the prize for the most preposterous post chocked full of false information. You are truly a poster child for the "truth movement" or you're a debunker in disguise making the "truth" look like the idiots most of them are. Congratulation, you win again today!

You are in error thinking you know it all . Your living in your own little SNOPES world . I saw the clip before 911 of Rumsfeld issuing that controversial order . It was controversial at the time . Cheney was feared by those who knew him . He is ruthless . I don't guess he was working for the Saudi's to get the Trans Afghanistan gas pipeline through the Taliban controlled area . I don't suppose Cheney as vice (some say president ) told the belligerent Taliban you will either accept a Carpet of Gold or a Carpet of Bombs . And 2 days before 911 we had troops in Pakistan ready to fight the Taliban with one of the northern alliances .
Cheney is a nasty bastard with a reputation for getting things done no matter who's carcase gets in the way .

First tower at WTC hit at 8:46. Second hits at 9:03. Pentagon hit at 9:37, almost an hour later than first strike and we didn't have time to intercept? We're that incompetent? Come on.

If a few 'truthers' can come to grips that there never was a stand down order, they also might start questioning a few of the other 'truther' beliefs.

Does anyone have a link to the entire Mineta testimony? Watching a few minutes earlier and a few later might enhance the context of his words. All I have seen is that short snippet.

But nowhere in that snippet does he use the term, 'stand down'.