What Stand Down Did Cheney Order?

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posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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Ah thanks but you still didn't supply the math. Having difficulty?

NORAD does monitor flights and they have a protocol for planes that go off screen or off their flight path. Now being they were already in a high state of emergency, what would they have done and actually, what is their standing protocol for such an event? Come on do the math and report back. Do you at least know how to use a calculator?

Correction = FAA not NORAD. Still remains, what was their protocol and why wasn't it followed?


Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
reply to post by Bilk22
 

Ah I found it myself. Transponder for flt 77 was shut off at 8:56. Reheat can you perform simple math computations and tell us how much time it was between then and when it hit the Pentagon at 9:37?


No one within NORAD monitors or controls the Domestic Airspace of the National Airspace system outside of the ADIZ. The FAA monitors and controls the entire National Airspace system to include the ADIZ.

So, yes, I can add and subtract. The real question is, can you?
edit on 25-6-2012 by Bilk22 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by Bilk22
 


More diversions to prove you can't answer the OP?



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Bilk22
LOL ok so flight paths are altered all the time and transponders go off all the time, yet planes don't crash into towers all the time, much less two on the same day. Come on man, you're a fool if you expect to sell that crap without question.


It's very thoughtful of you to tell me something I've known for almost 11 years. Don't mis con-screw what I said. I said flight plans are altered all the time, not transponders. Transponders only malfunction occasionally, but crews do misset then more often.

I'm not attempting to sell anything. I'm merely attempting to get you and others to stop perpetuating myths. I'm being very successful at it too... Once you get your head out of your nether regions, maybe, just maybe you'll understand...




Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
OK let's use your timeline without looking at when the transponders were shut down and when flight paths were altered from their original. 34 minutes. Still not enough time?


My timeline? Since when did I compose a timeline? The timeline of 9/11 events is a matter of historical record with witness testimony, audio tapes, transcrips, and radar return records from MULTIPLE sources . The key question you still haven't answered is when did NEADS know there was a hijacked aircraft at any time after 9:03.

For your information flight paths are altered all of the time from the original and aircraft do lose their transponders occasionally. Does that mean Air Defense fighters respond with an intercept? You have a long way to go to understand the National Airspace system and how it operates and you still don't have a clue how and when Air Defense responds to anything.

Hint: You're not going to get accurate information from conspiracy theory sites.


Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
First tower at WTC hit at 8:46. Second hits at 9:03. Pentagon hit at 9:37, almost an hour later than first strike and we didn't have time to intercept? We're that incompetent? Come on.


Well, you prove that simple minds need simple explanations. I thought you were an architect? That profession usually requires an education. Where's the evidence of yours?

No one knew there was an attack being perpetuated until after UA 175 struck at 9:03. At that time it was obvious an attack was under way. With me so far?

Now, I'll leave it up to you to determine what time NORAD knew of another flight that needed to be intercepted? The United States is a big place or didn't you learn that in elementary school geography classes? Because of this and because Air Defense Fighters don't have an unlimited fuel supply it was not appropriate to launch fighters to begin searching the rather vast North American Continent for a hijacked aircraft. They needed to know one existed first.

Once you determine what time NORAD knew of a another hijacked aircraft that needed to be intercepted you can then come back (if you're not too embarrassed by what you find) and we'll discuss more details about Air Defense Intercepts. 'K



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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What diversion? The transponder went off a full 41 minutes before it reached the Pentagon. You don't see that as a problem?


Originally posted by 911files
reply to post by Bilk22
 


More diversions to prove you can't answer the OP?



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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Successful? LOL

You can explain why 41 minutes after the transponder went off and 31 minutes after a second aircraft hit civilian targets, we didn't know what to do or how to do it?


Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
LOL ok so flight paths are altered all the time and transponders go off all the time, yet planes don't crash into towers all the time, much less two on the same day. Come on man, you're a fool if you expect to sell that crap without question.


It's very thoughtful of you to tell me something I've known for almost 11 years. Don't mis con-screw what I said. I said flight plans are altered all the time, not transponders. Transponders only malfunction occasionally, but crews do misset then more often.

I'm not attempting to sell anything. I'm merely attempting to get you and others to stop perpetuating myths. I'm being very successful at it too... Once you get your head out of your nether regions, maybe, just maybe you'll understand...




Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
OK let's use your timeline without looking at when the transponders were shut down and when flight paths were altered from their original. 34 minutes. Still not enough time?


My timeline? Since when did I compose a timeline? The timeline of 9/11 events is a matter of historical record with witness testimony, audio tapes, transcrips, and radar return records from MULTIPLE sources . The key question you still haven't answered is when did NEADS know there was a hijacked aircraft at any time after 9:03.

For your information flight paths are altered all of the time from the original and aircraft do lose their transponders occasionally. Does that mean Air Defense fighters respond with an intercept? You have a long way to go to understand the National Airspace system and how it operates and you still don't have a clue how and when Air Defense responds to anything.

Hint: You're not going to get accurate information from conspiracy theory sites.


Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
First tower at WTC hit at 8:46. Second hits at 9:03. Pentagon hit at 9:37, almost an hour later than first strike and we didn't have time to intercept? We're that incompetent? Come on.


Well, you prove that simple minds need simple explanations. I thought you were an architect? That profession usually requires an education. Where's the evidence of yours?

No one knew there was an attack being perpetuated until after UA 175 struck at 9:03. At that time it was obvious an attack was under way. With me so far?

Now, I'll leave it up to you to determine what time NORAD knew of another flight that needed to be intercepted? The United States is a big place or didn't you learn that in elementary school geography classes? Because of this and because Air Defense Fighters don't have an unlimited fuel supply it was not appropriate to launch fighters to begin searching the rather vast North American Continent for a hijacked aircraft. They needed to know one existed first.

Once you determine what time NORAD knew of a another hijacked aircraft that needed to be intercepted you can then come back (if you're not too embarrassed by what you find) and we'll discuss more details about Air Defense Intercepts. 'K



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by Bilk22
 


Yes a diversion. The OP is show me the "stand down" order that Cheney supposedly gave in the actual record of events. Not ZID's response to the transponder being turned off.

Looks more and more like to me that if there was a "stand down" order, it was an FAA ''stand down" on notifying NEADS.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by 911files
Yep, he was very clear. He arrived after the evacuation began. At earliest, that was 9:35, but the news media footage indicates it did not begin in earnest until around 9:40 to 9:45. So he arrived AFTER AAL77 and quite frankly has no knowledge of the AAL77 response.


Wrong. He arrived at 9:20. From the above linked pdf......


[Roemer starts off his questioning by asking an extremely tricky question - making the statement that the orders still stand... orders were a shoot down order by asking the question whether Mineta was in the room when the decision to shoot down was made.

Mineta skillfully dissects Roemer=s question into two parts: (1) that he did not know if that exchange referred to a shoot down order; and (2) verifying the time that Mineta arrived at the PEOC as 9:20 a.m. Mineta then makes an important, previously overlooked important revelation. He states knowledge that the President was on his way to Louisiana when the >conversation= (the shoot down authorization conversation between Bush and Cheney) occurred].

COMMISSIONER ROEMER:...But you had not been in the room when the decision was made -- to what you inferred was a decision made to attempt to shoot down Flight 77 before it crashed into the Pentagon. Is that correct?

MR. MINETA: I didn't know about the order to shoot down. I arrived at the PEOC at about 9:20 a.m. And the president was in Florida, and I believe he was on his way to Louisiana at that point when the conversation that went on between the vice president and the president and the staff that the president had with him.

MR. ROEMER: So when you arrived at 9:20, how much longer was it before you overheard the conversation between the young man and the vice president saying, "Does the order still stand?"

MR. MINETA: Probably about five or six minutes.

[This statement further confirms previous statements by the 9/11 Commission and news accounts that Bush was airborne in Air Force One when shoot down order discussions were held between Bush and Cheney, which was well after the Pentagon strike. Mineta makes it clear that he has knowledge that the Bush-Cheney shoot down conference occurred when Bush was on his way to Louisiana, after Bush took off from Florida, and after the Pentagon strike. (Bush himself states that no major decisions about the crisis were made until he boarded Air Force One.)

This statement also eliminates the probability of the Aorders still stand@ orders having their genesis in a Bush-Cheney discussion. Mineta would have been in the PEOC when those discussions were held. This statement has importance regarding Flight 93....



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Bilk22
Ah thanks but you still didn't supply the math. Having difficulty?

NORAD does monitor flights and they have a protocol for planes that go off screen or off their flight path. Now being they were already in a high state of emergency, what would they have done and actually, what is their standing protocol for such an event? Come on do the math and report back. Do you at least know how to use a calculator?

Correction = FAA not NORAD. Still remains, what was their protocol and why wasn't it followed?


Stop your crap about math! Prior to 9/11 NORAD only monitored via radar air traffic in the ADIZ. Do you comprehend that? They don't have flight plans for any other traffic, so how can they monitor or determine if it's off course or not?

The protocol is that the FAA may request assistance from NORAD for anything out of the ordinary. That includes traffic that is not complying with their flight plan (which ONLY the FAA has), Emergencies, Hijacks, and maybe NORDO. If there is no request from the FAA, they don't even know about it (if it's outside of the ADIZ).

You've obvious been getting information from CT sites or just pulled it out of your ass. I don't know which one to believe....


Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
reply to post by Bilk22
 

Ah I found it myself. Transponder for flt 77 was shut off at 8:56. Reheat can you perform simple math computations and tell us how much time it was between then and when it hit the Pentagon at 9:37?


No one within NORAD monitors or controls the Domestic Airspace of the National Airspace system outside of the ADIZ. The FAA monitors and controls the entire National Airspace system to include the ADIZ.

So, yes, I can add and subtract. The real question is, can you?
edit on 25-6-2012 by Bilk22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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I don't care who or what entity did or didn't take action. There was more than ample time to react and yet nothing. So this does apply to the OP.

The tactic by OSers such as yourself and others is clear - confuse the issue.


Originally posted by 911files
reply to post by Bilk22
 


Yes a diversion. The OP is show me the "stand down" order that Cheney supposedly gave in the actual record of events. Not ZID's response to the transponder being turned off.

Looks more and more like to me that if there was a "stand down" order, it was an FAA ''stand down" on notifying NEADS.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by SimontheMagus
 


That is what Mineta says. Mineta is either lying or mistaken. He said he arrived during the evacuation. There is NO evidence to indicate otherwise and we know when the evacuation took place. If any "stand down" was ordered, it was not by Cheney, but by Mineta to the FAA.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Bilk22
 


No sir, trying to keep it focused on the OP, Cheney's "stand down" order supposedly given at 9:35 or so in regards to AAL77. Kindly refrain from diversions from the topic.
edit on 25-6-2012 by 911files because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Bilk22
What diversion? The transponder went off a full 41 minutes before it reached the Pentagon. You don't see that as a problem?


It doesn't matter what I see at all... How was NORAD to know that the transponder went off?

Do you or do you not know that the FAA controls all traffic within the National Airspace of the US? NORAD has no clue about traffic outside of the ADIZ until the FAA tells them? You need to get a clue before you starting a stupid argument about something you have no clue about...


Originally posted by 911files
reply to post by Bilk22
 


More diversions to prove you can't answer the OP?



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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I hope we don't have a debate on what the words "stand down" mean like we have with "pull it"?



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by Bilk22
I don't care who or what entity did or didn't take action. There was more than ample time to react and yet nothing. So this does apply to the OP.

The tactic by OSers such as yourself and others is clear - confuse the issue.


The only one confused is YOU. No, it does not apply to the OP at all, not even close. I'm not even sure you know what the topic is any more...


Originally posted by 911files
reply to post by Bilk22
 


Yes a diversion. The OP is show me the "stand down" order that Cheney supposedly gave in the actual record of events. Not ZID's response to the transponder being turned off.

Looks more and more like to me that if there was a "stand down" order, it was an FAA ''stand down" on notifying NEADS.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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Again what is the ADIZ for the DC area? How far does it reach? Oh how long does it take for the FAA to notify NORAD they've lost a plane? If there's a stand down order, does it really matter?


Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
What diversion? The transponder went off a full 41 minutes before it reached the Pentagon. You don't see that as a problem?


It doesn't matter what I see at all... How was NORAD to know that the transponder went off?

Do you or do you not know that the FAA controls all traffic within the National Airspace of the US? NORAD has no clue about traffic outside of the ADIZ until the FAA tells them? You need to get a clue before you starting a stupid argument about something you have no clue about...


Originally posted by 911files
reply to post by Bilk22
 


More diversions to prove you can't answer the OP?



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by Bilk22
 





If there's a stand down order, does it really matter?

Yes it does matter.

The supposed 'stand down' order is a core belief in the conspiracy community just as thermite was.

And the OP's question still is unanswered. Where is the proof that there was an actual 'stand down' order?
No where is the answer.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Bilk22
Again what is the ADIZ for the DC area? How far does it reach? Oh how long does it take for the FAA to notify NORAD they've lost a plane? If there's a stand down order, does it really matter?


Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
What diversion? The transponder went off a full 41 minutes before it reached the Pentagon. You don't see that as a problem?


It doesn't matter what I see at all... How was NORAD to know that the transponder went off?

Do you or do you not know that the FAA controls all traffic within the National Airspace of the US? NORAD has no clue about traffic outside of the ADIZ until the FAA tells them? You need to get a clue before you starting a stupid argument about something you have no clue about...


Originally posted by 911files
reply to post by Bilk22
 


More diversions to prove you can't answer the OP?


Questions and topic for another thread. You are making a rather obvious effort to derail the OP.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Bilk22
Again what is the ADIZ for the DC area? How far does it reach? Oh how long does it take for the FAA to notify NORAD they've lost a plane? If there's a stand down order, does it really matter?


Do you want me to also wipe you after you use the bathroom? No thanks, not interested at all.

You are the one making the accusation, but without a clue or evidence to justify it. Since you've just admitted you don't have a clue why are you posting accusations in this thread?

If there was a "stand down" it was to the FAA... If you'll research what was going on at Indianapolis Center when AA 77 turned off it's transponder, perhaps you'll then understand the delay in notifying NORAD.

There was no "stand down" order. No evidence of one at all... Do research at credible sites and get off the conspiracy kick and perhaps you'll then understand what happened...

If you continue in the direction you're heading now, you'll never understand it at all...


Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
What diversion? The transponder went off a full 41 minutes before it reached the Pentagon. You don't see that as a problem?


It doesn't matter what I see at all... How was NORAD to know that the transponder went off?

Do you or do you not know that the FAA controls all traffic within the National Airspace of the US? NORAD has no clue about traffic outside of the ADIZ until the FAA tells them? You need to get a clue before you starting a stupid argument about something you have no clue about...


Originally posted by 911files
reply to post by Bilk22
 


More diversions to prove you can't answer the OP?
edit on 25-6-2012 by Reheat because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by waypastvne
 


Your only talking about a one piece of the plane. There are engines, interior, landing gear, the list goes on and on. An engine is not made out of carbon fire. Engines do not fully disintegrate.

But of course an UFO sweeped down and took the rest of the parts right? I'm counting on you to bring UFO's into this.



posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by samkent
 





Does anyone have a link to the entire Mineta testimony? Watching a few minutes earlier and a few later might enhance the context of his words. All I have seen is that short snippet.



it's not the entire testimony but that's all I could find. To me it seems like Mineta is actually talking about a shoot down order of flight 93.






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