What Stand Down Did Cheney Order?

Originally posted by Bilk22
First tower at WTC hit at 8:46. Second hits at 9:03. Pentagon hit at 9:37, almost an hour later than first strike and we didn't have time to intercept? We're that incompetent? Come on.

Well, you prove that simple minds need simple explanations. I thought you were an architect? That profession usually requires an education. Where's the evidence of yours?

No one knew there was an attack being perpetuated until after UA 175 struck at 9:03. At that time it was obvious an attack was under way. With me so far?

Now, I'll leave it up to you to determine what time NORAD knew of another flight that needed to be intercepted? The United States is a big place or didn't you learn that in elementary school geography classes? Because of this and because Air Defense Fighters don't have an unlimited fuel supply it was not appropriate to launch fighters to begin searching the rather vast North American Continent for a hijacked aircraft. They needed to know one existed first.

Once you determine what time NORAD knew of a another hijacked aircraft that needed to be intercepted you can then come back (if you're not too embarrassed by what you find) and we'll discuss more details about Air Defense Intercepts. 'K

We are at four pages now. Still no one has been able to point to where our military was told to 'stand down'. Someone wake me up if they are able to actually point to where NEADS (those responsible for air defense in NYC and DC) were told to 'stand down'.

Originally posted by SimonPeter

Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by 911files

 

The stand down order was given June 1 2011 . Donald Rumsfeld issued that order from Vice Admiral Fry . GW Bush was a face man and Cheney to put it nice ran things . Order CJCSI 3601.01A superseded order CJCSI 3601.01 where no authorization was needed to take action against hijacked aircraft . The new order complicated and hindered response time by requiring the Secretary of Defense approval to take action concerning hijacked or derelict aircraft . The Vice Admiral and Rumsfeld took orders from Cheney who shouldn't have been running anything much less the military . His job is to wait for the president to expire and then take the helm . Whether you send the fighters away on maneuvers , or as he did clutter the radar with bogus targets , or restrict response with red tape NORAD was restrained . What the hell is a burned out CFR chairman doing running a maneuver . What was to be gained by it . Was he better than the military men that were fully qualified to do so . Why were the NORAD officials not there with Cheney in case something went wrong . Where was the chain of command
Then what did Cheney mean by what America needs is a Pearl Harbor ??????

Each and every day you win the prize for the most preposterous post chocked full of false information. You are truly a poster child for the "truth movement" or you're a debunker in disguise making the "truth" look like the idiots most of them are. Congratulation, you win again today!

You are in error thinking you know it all .

No, I certainly don't "know it all", but I do know and understand infinitely more than you do.

If a "stand down" order was given on June 1 2011 requiring Rumsfield's authority to launch Air Defense fighters in response to a hijacked aircraft then how did NEADS scramble two F-15's from Otis ANG Base on 11 Sept 2001 in response to a hijacked aircraft WITHOUT Rumsfield's authorization?

Then later, NEADS again scrambled two F-16's from Langley AFB in response to a hijacked aircraft WITHOUT Rumsfield's authorization.

Again, how did the Secret Service prompt a launch of 3 fighters from Andrew's AFB WITH SHOOT DOWN AUTHORITY FROM VICE_PRESIDENT CHENEY all without Rumfield's authority.

My comment above still stands. Every time you post you reinforce it...

reply to post by 911files

We are at four pages now. Still no one has been able to point to where our military was told to 'stand down'.

That's because they were NOT told to stand down.
It's just one of those lies truthers believe in.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by 911files

 

We are at four pages now. Still no one has been able to point to where our military was told to 'stand down'.

That's because they were NOT told to stand down.
It's just one of those lies truthers believe in.

Don't cha just love the irony displayed in calling people who refute their nonsense; "sheeple"?

Originally posted by samkent
It's just one of those lies truthers believe in.

Careful now, I too am a truther. I fight these stupid "myths" not as a debunker, but simply because they are not the "truth". Everyone points to Mineta's testimony and how it proves a "stand down". However, all of the objective evidence indicates that he arrived after the WH evacuation and could not possibly have heard Cheney's remarks in time frame of AAL77 to which it is attributed.

Show here are the handwritten notes of the Secret Service log for that morning as documented by a 911 Commission staffer:




Notice that as early as 9:27, the Secret Service was getting information from the FAA that there was an aircraft in-bound to DC. Yet, NEADS was not notified until over ten minutes later. This is not some TSD track they are tracking over there at FAA, but an aircraft that ultimately hits the Pentagon. So, instead of praising Mineta as some hero of "truth", they should be asking him why his agency did not notify NEADS of the threat like they did the Secret Service. So if anyone ordered a "stand down", then we might want to look at Mineta first.

Originally posted by ReheatThat's because they were NOT told to stand down.
It's just one of those lies truthers believe in.

Don't cha just love the irony displayed in calling people who refute their nonsense; "sheeple"?

edit on 25-6-2012 by Reheat because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-6-2012 by Reheat because: (no reason given)

Refer to my last post. Exactly who are the "sheeple"?

OK let's use your timeline without looking at when the transponders were shut down and when flight paths were altered from their original. 34 minutes. Still not enough time?

Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
First tower at WTC hit at 8:46. Second hits at 9:03. Pentagon hit at 9:37, almost an hour later than first strike and we didn't have time to intercept? We're that incompetent? Come on.

Well, you prove that simple minds need simple explanations. I thought you were an architect? That profession usually requires an education. Where's the evidence of yours?

No one knew there was an attack being perpetuated until after UA 175 struck at 9:03. At that time it was obvious an attack was under way. With me so far?

Now, I'll leave it up to you to determine what time NORAD knew of another flight that needed to be intercepted? The United States is a big place or didn't you learn that in elementary school geography classes? Because of this and because Air Defense Fighters don't have an unlimited fuel supply it was not appropriate to launch fighters to begin searching the rather vast North American Continent for a hijacked aircraft. They needed to know one existed first.

Once you determine what time NORAD knew of a another hijacked aircraft that needed to be intercepted you can then come back (if you're not too embarrassed by what you find) and we'll discuss more details about Air Defense Intercepts. 'K

reply to post by 911files


But the fact remains:
Mineta did not say a 'stand down' order was given.
Mineta did not say he heard anyone say there was a 'stand down' order.
Mineta did not say there was a defacto 'stand down' order was in effect.

No where did he even use the words "stand down".

[

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by 911files

 

But the fact remains:
Mineta did not say a 'stand down' order was given.
Mineta did not say he heard anyone say there was a 'stand down' order.
Mineta did not say there was a defacto 'stand down' order was in effect.

No where did he even use the words "stand down".

This might help clear it up....

Mineta, Cheney and Athe orders still stand@ controversy:
Further evidence that Vice President Cheney=s order on 9/11 regarding Flight 77 was not a shoot-down order, but a stand down order - an order NOT to shoot the plane down.

May 1, 2007
by John C. Ekonomou
Attorney at Law
B.A. Political Science, University of Illinois at Chicago
J.D. Thomas M. Cooley Law School, Lansing, Michigan

[email protected]

www.journalof911studies.com...

reply to post by 911files


According to the docs im looking at, NEADS was informed about an inbound aircraft at 9:24. Thirteen minutes before it hit the Pentagon.

reply to post by Bilk22

Ah I found it myself. Transponder for flt 77 was shut off at 8:56. Reheat can you perform simple math computations and tell us how much time it was between then and when it hit the Pentagon at 9:37?

Originally posted by SimontheMagus
This might help clear it up....

Nope.

There is no reason for Mineta to lie about the events in the PEOC.

Yeah there is, I just posted it.

- Norman Mineta knew what time he arrived at the PEOC.

Yep, he was very clear. He arrived after the evacuation began. At earliest, that was 9:35, but the news media footage indicates it did not begin in earnest until around 9:40 to 9:45. So he arrived AFTER AAL77 and quite frankly has no knowledge of the AAL77 response.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by 911files

 

According to the docs im looking at, NEADS was informed about an inbound aircraft at 9:24. Thirteen minutes before it hit the Pentagon.

Then you did not get that the Secret Service was notified of the inbound aircraft, not NEADS. NEADS was alerted by Colin Scoggins who overheard mention of a AAL11 possibly being in the air and headed to DC on an FAA line. If it had not been for him, Langley would not have responded as early as they did. However, the AAL11 (AAL11A) track was a TSD artifact, not AAL77 which was inbound from the west and obviously being tracked in the FAA by someone. So why didn't the person who was tracking the unknown primary drop a dime to NEADS? Perhaps that is the question Mineta wanted to avoid.

Bottomline: There was no stand-down order given. NEADS would have responded had they been given the information. So why did Mineta's gang at FAA not give them the information? Whoops! There goes the hero of the "hero" of the "truth" movement.

Originally posted by Bilk22
OK let's use your timeline without looking at when the transponders were shut down and when flight paths were altered from their original. 34 minutes. Still not enough time?

My timeline? Since when did I compose a timeline? The timeline of 9/11 events is a matter of historical record with witness testimony, audio tapes, transcrips, and radar return records from MULTIPLE sources . The key question you still haven't answered is when did NEADS know there was a hijacked aircraft at any time after 9:03.

For your information flight paths are altered all of the time from the original and aircraft do lose their transponders occasionally. Does that mean Air Defense fighters respond with an intercept? You have a long way to go to understand the National Airspace system and how it operates and you still don't have a clue how and when Air Defense responds to anything.

Hint: You're not going to get accurate information from conspiracy theory sites.

Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
First tower at WTC hit at 8:46. Second hits at 9:03. Pentagon hit at 9:37, almost an hour later than first strike and we didn't have time to intercept? We're that incompetent? Come on.

Well, you prove that simple minds need simple explanations. I thought you were an architect? That profession usually requires an education. Where's the evidence of yours?

No one knew there was an attack being perpetuated until after UA 175 struck at 9:03. At that time it was obvious an attack was under way. With me so far?

Now, I'll leave it up to you to determine what time NORAD knew of another flight that needed to be intercepted? The United States is a big place or didn't you learn that in elementary school geography classes? Because of this and because Air Defense Fighters don't have an unlimited fuel supply it was not appropriate to launch fighters to begin searching the rather vast North American Continent for a hijacked aircraft. They needed to know one existed first.

Once you determine what time NORAD knew of a another hijacked aircraft that needed to be intercepted you can then come back (if you're not too embarrassed by what you find) and we'll discuss more details about Air Defense Intercepts. 'K

reply to post by 911files


I'm sorry, it was 9:21 when NEADS knew there was a possible hijack inbound to DC.....


I suppose NEADS could be wrong..........

LOL ok so flight paths are altered all the time and transponders go off all the time, yet planes don't crash into towers all the time, much less two on the same day. Come on man, you're a fool if you expect to sell that crap without question.

Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
OK let's use your timeline without looking at when the transponders were shut down and when flight paths were altered from their original. 34 minutes. Still not enough time?

My timeline? Since when did I compose a timeline? The timeline of 9/11 events is a matter of historical record with witness testimony, audio tapes, transcrips, and radar return records from MULTIPLE sources . The key question you still haven't answered is when did NEADS know there was a hijacked aircraft at any time after 9:03.

For your information flight paths are altered all of the time from the original and aircraft do lose their transponders occasionally. Does that mean Air Defense fighters respond with an intercept? You have a long way to go to understand the National Airspace system and how it operates and you still don't have a clue how and when Air Defense responds to anything.

Hint: You're not going to get accurate information from conspiracy theory sites.

Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by Bilk22
First tower at WTC hit at 8:46. Second hits at 9:03. Pentagon hit at 9:37, almost an hour later than first strike and we didn't have time to intercept? We're that incompetent? Come on.

Well, you prove that simple minds need simple explanations. I thought you were an architect? That profession usually requires an education. Where's the evidence of yours?

No one knew there was an attack being perpetuated until after UA 175 struck at 9:03. At that time it was obvious an attack was under way. With me so far?

Now, I'll leave it up to you to determine what time NORAD knew of another flight that needed to be intercepted? The United States is a big place or didn't you learn that in elementary school geography classes? Because of this and because Air Defense Fighters don't have an unlimited fuel supply it was not appropriate to launch fighters to begin searching the rather vast North American Continent for a hijacked aircraft. They needed to know one existed first.

Once you determine what time NORAD knew of a another hijacked aircraft that needed to be intercepted you can then come back (if you're not too embarrassed by what you find) and we'll discuss more details about Air Defense Intercepts. 'K

Originally posted by Bilk22
reply to post by Bilk22

 

Ah I found it myself. Transponder for flt 77 was shut off at 8:56. Reheat can you perform simple math computations and tell us how much time it was between then and when it hit the Pentagon at 9:37?

No one within NORAD monitors or controls the Domestic Airspace of the National Airspace system outside of the ADIZ. The FAA monitors and controls the entire National Airspace system to include the ADIZ.

So, yes, I can add and subtract. The real question is, can you?

reply to post by vipertech0596


Again, that was due to Colin, not the FAA. Unfortunately, Colin's information resulted in the fighters being sent towards Baltimore, not DC. But, again, no evidence of a "stand down" in our air defenses. Quite the contrary. Had the FAA given the information to NEADS of AAL77's approach from the west, they would have responded vigorously, just as they did when they finally got the notification that it was "6 miles from the White House". No "stand down".

reply to post by 911files


You make a very good point about why Mineta's testimony was as it was. I don't think anyone else has picked up on that yet... That is a very good deduction and perhaps hasn't even been thought of until now...