Now That I Think Of it, Why Does God Need Jesus If He is Omnipotent?

reply to post by mr10k


Ya he does, doesn't he? It's just like if I were to stand at the edge of a 100 foot cliff and step over, the gravitational pull would force me downward toward the ground, and then I would likely die.... because a force that strong is quite unforgiving, and it does to you as it pleases, and never changes.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by windword

 

How did Herod, Pilate, and Caiaphas "know" what they were doing? Were they informed as to the spiritual status of Jesus by Satan? How are these people above, as far as knowledge, the pharisees and sadducees, who were confounded? How are these real people not included in Jesus' prayer of forgive "them"?

They knew because Jesus told them.
There seems to be sufficient scriptural evidence that they understood that he claimed to be god.
The fact that they plotted to have him killed shows their true nature and they serve as types to condemn the system they represent.

Many Christians, I'm not sure where you stand on this, believe that Jesus' crucifixion was ordained from the Genesis story:

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.

Personally, I don't see the correlation.

I can't believe that any of those men, Herod, Pilate, and Caiaphas, had any free will in the deal. Herod never even met Jesus. If God hardened the heart of the Pharaoh, in order for Moses to do his thing, why would I think free will had any play in the Jesus story. Even Jesus didn't get a say here, as he prayed for a way out.

Also, Jesus never claimed to be god. He claimed to be the "son of god," and went to some effort to explain that we all can claim that title.

Originally posted by Rocsgirl
reply to post by mr10k

 

Ya he does, doesn't he? It's just like if I were to stand at the edge of a 100 foot cliff and step over, the gravitational pull would force me downward toward the ground, and then I would likely die.... because a force that strong is quite unforgiving, and it does to you as it pleases, and never changes.

Gravity is a force of nature. Do you worship gravity? Is your god a bunch of laws of nature, like entropy and cause and effect? 2+2=4, that never changes either.

How does you god deal with the death that occurs, after one steps over that 100 foot cliff?

reply to post by windword

Also, Jesus never claimed to be god. He claimed to be the "son of god," and went to some effort to explain that we all can claim that title.

Being the son of God would require being a god of some sort.
When being arrested he was told they they were looking for Jesus and he told them he was, ending in a statement of "I am", where the arresting detail fell to the ground.
Jesus had, upon request, twelve legions of angels at his command.

Many Christians, I'm not sure where you stand on this, believe that Jesus' crucifixion was ordained from the Genesis story:
Personally, I don't see the correlation.

There isn't any reference to that in the NT, so it would have to be just something some people made up.

Herod never even met Jesus.

You are probably thinking of Herod the Great, Herod's father.

I can't believe that any of those men, Herod, Pilate, and Caiaphas, had any free will in the deal.

They did, but it would have been rather difficult at that time to exercise it, being so wrapped up in the system.

Even Jesus didn't get a say here, as he prayed for a way out.

The Garden scene to me demonstrates that Jesus had a choice. Some people may see it differently and I would like to see the argument.

reply to post by windword


Laws of Nature were created by God

reply to post by Rocsgirl


The laws of nature make sense. The laws that the god of the Old Testament put down and the commands he made are unloving, unjust and inhumane.

The laws of nature do not require a blood sacrifice, they aren't effected by offerings. Why did the god of the OT need the blood sacrifice, a human sacrifice, that was performed at the hands of ungodly murderers instead of a priest?

reply to post by jmdewey60

The Garden scene to me demonstrates that Jesus had a choice. Some people may see it differently and I would like to see the argument.

Since Jesus was alone while he prayed, that fateful evening, I wonder how anyone knew the content of his prayer. I also wonder why the people whocompiled the scripture saw fit to include this in the "gospels" as it leaves doubt as to the meaning of his request, "Take this cup away from me." It makes him seem reluctant.

reply to post by windword


I want to say first off that my comment regarding gravity and the laws of nature and falling off the cliff was a sarcastic remark I made in response to a comment in response to my first response. The person said something like: " This God character sure sounds like a pretentious douchebag." So I replied in sarcasm but correlated it with something of God (Laws of Nature) to explain the ideas of an unforgiving, never-changing, yet do-as-he-pleases type God, which the responder had misinterpreted my meaning of this, so I perpetuated his idea of God with my saracastic remark. Hopefully that makes sense.

Secondly, I do not hold the belief that God needed a human sacrifice, but I might be able to answer your question anyways. Here it goes: God does not determine one's status of righteousness of an honor so great to be called the Son of God with material wealth and power. But also, I don't know that there were priests in that time era, but I could be wrong.... I correlate priests with Catholicism which was not a religion yet. As far as the Kings or religious leaders... they may have otherwise been corrupt with greed anyways, or the people may have misperceived God's message if the Messiah had been a King, or a religious figure during that time. It may have created this idea that godliness and the saving of your soul is only achieved thru the status in which you hold within society.

Just a thought, again, I do not hold these beliefs.

Originally posted by Rocsgirl
reply to post by windword

 

Secondly, I do not hold the belief that God needed a human sacrifice, but I might be able to answer your question anyways. Here it goes: God does not determine one's status of righteousness of an honor so great to be called the Son of God with material wealth and power. But also, I don't know that there were priests in that time era, but I could be wrong.... I correlate priests with Catholicism which was not a religion yet.

Yes, Yahweh had priests. Here's an example from the Old Testament of how the priest would perform an abortion on a suspected adulterer.

Numbers 5
18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse —“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

Also, this god went great lengths to explain how he wanted his animal sacrifices prepared, what kind of rocks to use and what kind made the meat taste bitter, how to remove and cook the kidneys and when to sprinkle the animals blood on the meat while it cooked and what herbs and spices to use.

Also, he wanted the alter/BBQ not be too high, as he didn't want anyone looking up the priest's/chef's robe.

6 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

So, if God went to such great lengths, describing how to ritually sacrifice animals to him, so why would an ungodly angry mob's desire for murder be looked at as a ritual sacrifice. That's my question to Christians.

reply to post by windword

Since Jesus was alone while he prayed, that fateful evening, I wonder how anyone knew the content of his prayer. I also wonder why the people whocompiled the scripture saw fit to include this in the "gospels" as it leaves doubt as to the meaning of his request, "Take this cup away from me." It makes him seem reluctant.

I'm reading a book on that, called, This Tragic Gospel.
The author brings that up, how anyone was witness to what Jesus prayed if he was alone?
The usual explanation for the request is Jesus aligning his own will with God's.
I don't see it as reluctance so much as assurance that this was the right course of action.

reply to post by jmdewey60


The same is true with his temptation in the desert. Did Jesus come back from his "vision quest" in the desert and then start bragging about how he kicked some Satan arse? "He said this and I said that, Haha, so there you devil, get thee behind me!"

I don't think so........

reply to post by windword

I have another book I am reading that covers that, called, Temptations of Jesus in Early Christianity.
It's fundamental to the understanding of the person of Jesus, that he was tempted, as we are, but this high level of a temptation would be fitting of a person of his rank, that being the Messiah.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
Why do we have people with names like Mark, Luke, John writing in the bible when the names did not even exist at the time. The term Christianity originated long after the bible was supposedly written, so what was the name of the religion at first? Again I say Jesus and God are not one and the same. The bible was been highly revised and certain aspects have been removed and added, It's the modern religion of Babylon.

I have to agree. Even the name "Jesus" could not have existed in those times, in that particular area. All spoke a form of Hebrew. If you know anything at all about Hebrew, it has 22 letters and corresponding numbers, and no Vowels. The letter "J" was not invented intill the 14th century, no one knows who invented it, some say it is a Latin letter. So, no Vowels, that takes out the e, and the u. With the letter J gone too, that leaves ss.
When researching the Christian religion, always remember, all roads lead straight back to Rome, and the Holy (cough, cough) Church. I know they are telling us all lies, and would certainly like to know what they really think.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by SubPop79

 

God created man, so that there may be others like himself. As the angels do not have the same attributes as man does.

So who created Woman? And please don't say a male. Not a single male know the mind of a woman. God had help from a Goddess.
And you are right, there are many we humans would call Gods and Goddesses out there. But as far as I know, there is but one First Creator. And I know not thing one about it.

reply to post by Rocsgirl

We are to worship God and God alone.

I disagree. We are here to learn, and to raise our Spiritual level as high as possible during our lives. And to be like the Creators of human kind are. We are here to learn how to be creators in our own right.

The word "worship" means "work for."