Former Head Of Star Wars Program Says Cheney

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Originally posted by 911files
No sir, my position is that you have not established the bonafides of your "expert". You want to claim he knows more than Reheat, yet you refuse to show anything that documents what appear to be bogus credentials.

Now all of Bowman's credentials are bogus? Man, how low will you sink?

Maybe you should just go to reheat to answer all your questions.

It's really sad to see someone refuse to admit they are beaten.

Yes I know. Sad to watch you crash like this. And yes, Bowman has absolutely no credentials in regards to NORAD or air defenses on 9/11. The resume presented makes claims that you cannot support, so yes, bogus.

The importand issues of this thread are that Bowman said something about Dick Cheney. The OP really doesn't say what, but It's easy to guess it was something apparently because Bowman dislikes Cheney. Even after 12 pages now all we have are his credentials being touted as if anything he says is the gospel truth...

Not so. That's why some are still quoting his credentials instead of proving ANYTHING he says is true....

For example, he has stated that any time an aircraft goes off course Air Defense fighters are scrambled. That is patently false. In fact, most of the time little is done except ATC talking to the pilots to to determine if there is a problem or why they are deviating. The Payne Stewart Lear Jet was the only exception to this in the past 50 years, except for verified hijacking or emergency incidents. The only other time Air Defense fighters were/are scrambled for anything similar to this was and is when aircraft deviate from their approved track or timing upon entering an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ). No aircraft on 9/11 was in an ADIZ at any time, so this does not apply. In recent years there have been some scrambles related to drug interdiction. The most time Air Defense had for a scramble on 0/11 was 10 minutes for AA 11. At that time no one knew there was an attack in progress. All of the other times on 9/11 the time was less than 10 minutes. That is not enough time for fighters to respond...

He says the FBI confiscated all of the tapes in and around the Pentagon. That is true, but it is also standard police procedure in an investigation. Duh!

He goes on the say that all of the pertinent ATC audio tapes were confiscated, as well. This is FALSE. All pertinent ATC tapes have been released into the public domain and all are available to anyone who wants to listen to them... They were certified and released by the FAA, not the FBI.

He has also made accusations that the reason for the Afghanistan Invasion was to secure the gas pipeline. That pipeline still has not been completed and as far as I know has not even been started. It was not for the US's benefit anyway. The gas was suppose to go to Pakistan and India....

Apparently, many here believe he said that Cheney issued the "truther stand down order". I am unable to determine that he has said this, but it is false anyway. It has been clearly shown that no "stand down order" was issued at all. it simply remains to be a "truther" myth.

He says a lot of other things, but I don't have the time nor inclination to listen to them. He is a discredited gasbag.

So much for his credentials. His credentials only establish that if someone says something that "truthers" agree with, he's the most imminently qualified person on the planet and everything he says is true regardless with no questions asked. He is qualified to say it, so it's automatically true regardless if it's a crock of nonsense.

Bob Bowman is a political malcontent and he doesn't like Cheney or Bush and the neocons. Welcome to the crowd, but that in no way qualifies him to puke the nonsense that he has and does on issues supported by the "truth cult."

reply to post by Reheat


How many people with PhD's, the highest security clearance, and bonafide experience in the trenches above and beyond the call of duty are on your list of useless gasbags now? A hundred? A thousand?

And yet, there couldn't possibly be a conspiracy this big because "nobody comes forward"....

In a radio interview on April 12, 2007, Bowman said:


"Technological feasibility of a defensive shield is entirely irrelevant, because Star Wars has nothing to do with defense. It is an attempt to deploy offensive weapons disguised as defense. In 1982, in his secret defense guidance document, Ronald Reagan ordered the Department of Defense to develop Star Wars weapons, and he assigned them two missions. One: Destroy opposing satellites and seize control of space. Two: Destroy targets on the surface of the earth from space without warning. There wasn't a word in there about shooting down ballistic missiles. That was a smokescreen for the American people, because they knew that the American people would never approve weapons in space for offensive purposes.

Wikipedia

If you go to the link you will see why the OP stated it the way He did i would suspect.....so to me it seems this is a debate on semantics...I mean seems not 9/11 files or Reheat will accept his credentials...also I did not know there was any prerequisites for looking into the questions of 9/11...i mean is there a university degree in the study of 9/11 that is now required to allow someone the right to speak on the subject...Kind of Moronic...kinda like the statement before..."do you know who you are talking too"...where the heck do you people out there come to get such big Egos.

But then this is just a guy who has no right to speak on 9/11....yet does he just sit on the internet....and somehow Reheat and 9/11 files feel he does not have the ability to speak on 9/11....wow

Google Video Link

yup i would tend to hold your words as true...calling this man...I give him more cred on his middle finger than you two could ever muster up....you say you both speak facts...yet he facts are this man does have some sound knowledge. Will it be all true....most likely not....but he has valid points...whether they are all agreeable or not.



see the words 9/11 truth.....so lets call the conspiracy what it is....the truth is not the conspiracy...the conspiracy is and always has been the Official Story.

Also if you look into my 9/11 thread(signature)...I had stated the oil situation on the protection of the pipeline.....You know Standard oil.

but heck what the heck does the truth movement know....so if people want to keep living blind it is up to them.

But go ahead and bash this man...It is so sad....9/11files....and Rehaet...you both like to think your something for some reason...but all you really are doing is perpetuating a delusion....Which is really as criminal as the perpetrators of 9/11 themselves.

Time will show the people the truth no matter how much people try to lie to people by hiding behind the Official story conspiracy.

I would believe this man over either of you as you try to assassinate his character without having the decency to show yours.

reply to post by plube


Excuse me, but a 2007 interview referenced by Wikipedia does not credentials make. No, it is NOT semantics. You are claiming the guy was head of a program that did not exist while he was credited to have been involved with it. That is not semantics, that is an outlandish claim that requires documentation.

Originally posted by Reheat
He has also made accusations that the reason for the Afghanistan Invasion was to secure the gas pipeline. That pipeline still has not been completed and as far as I know has not even been started. It was not for the US's benefit anyway. The gas was suppose to go to Pakistan and India....

He's right on the money. Afghanistan was about two things:

OIL

prorev.com...

and HEROIN

whatreallyhappened.com...

It's sad to see someone who spends half their life exposed to the truth still know nothing about the world they live in. It's all about the money.

Originally posted by 911files
reply to post by plube

 

Excuse me, but a 2007 interview referenced by Wikipedia does not credentials make. No, it is NOT semantics. You are claiming the guy was head of a program that did not exist while he was credited to have been involved with it. That is not semantics, that is an outlandish claim that requires documentation.

Where is your proof that it did not exist?

FoxNews?

reply to post by SimontheMagus


Hey, I'm not the one asserting the guy is an "expert", you are. The burden of proof is on you, not me. If you can't verify his credentials, then say so and move on.

reply to post by SimontheMagus


See, the problem is, you cannot distinguish facts from his opinion. Col Bowman, was several years (decades) removed from having ANYTHING to do with Air Defense. Or even being privy to the information about it. He is no more reliable or current than the "men who stare at goats" idiot (Stubblebine, I believe his name is)

reply to post by 911files


I see the ones who are defending the gasbag are also gasbags themselves by not proving what he says is true. It all just a contest to see who can produce the most gas. None of them addressed with any proof anything I called him on, just more gas.

Congratulations, You guys win with the contest by being better gasbags....

ETA: I am not even questioning his credentials at all. His credentials are not the issue, it's what he says that I'm refuting and will continue to do so because he is nothing more than a gasbag.

reply to post by 911files


Let see, was it not call the advanced space program under ford and carter...later to be called the SDI or to be known as star wars under Reagan...thanks to the movie and him being and actor....Right.

I still don't get why you choose to just slander ...peoples names..and when the same is done to yourself you get all in a huff....You are not anyone special....just as Reheat is not...and i myself am not....but what we are i would hope is logical thinking individuals with opposing opinions...but because i do not agree on things with you, and you might not agree with bowman...does not makes their views any less regarded...even if he was a pig farmer in the south he would still have a opinion.

Do you think that...Reagan came in and then and only then a strategic defense program just came into being....It would have been thought of before his term i would have thought...I mean i could be wrong...but i don't think so...I think it was just repackaged to be sold to the public...and if you think it was not the case...then i would have to ask you who here is really being naive....Are you going to try and wash this by people and think you are so intelligent to think otherwise...because if this is the case then i would say someone is being truly ignorant.

do you remember Ross Perot....I would say not the sharpest tool in the shed...but he is sharp enough to be a billionaire more than once over....So you might want to say his credentials are lacking...but i would say if mine were lacking that badly at least i would be able to just put a finger in the air and say when you make your first billion your points of view might be considered.

Does yourself or Reheat have a PHD......It is not revealing anything about yourselves...it is a fair question....because i can say to you i dont.....but i do have a bachelors of engineering from BCIT which i don't mind saying and am proud to have achieved it.....but go ahead and bash away and be little it if you like....makes no difference to me....now prove to me that there was no star wars program of any kind before Reagan.

Proclamation 4512 - United States Space Observance
July 11, 1977





Jimmy Carter
1977: Book II

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By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation
Our human race has always felt an urge to explore and understand the world around us. This drive lay behind the theories of Ptolemy and Copernicus, the discoveries of Aristotle and Newton, the journeys of Columbus and Magellan.

In our time, this spirit has led to the exploration of space. From single missions, designed to send satellites into orbit and land men on the Moon, the United States space program has grown into a much broader range of endeavors. Its purpose is not simply to study space, but to understand its relevance to life on earth. Satellites now orbiting the earth have helped us to forecast weather patterns accurately, discover mineral deposits, detect sources of pollution and establish a global communications network. International projects such as Apollo-Soyuz have helped bring the people of the world closer together through coordinated research and 'the cooperative use of land and sea resources.

To encourage the American people to reflect upon the purposes, goals and achievements of America's space program, the Senate (July 11, 1975) and the House of Representatives (September 30, 1976) have requested the President to issue a proclamation designating the period of July 16 through July 24 as "United States Space Observance" and calling for its appropriate observance (S. Con. Res. 47).

Now, Therefore, I, Jimmy Carter, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim the period of July 16 through July 24, 1977, as United States Space Observance.

I urge the communications media, educators, the aerospace industry, scientific and public-service organizations and the American people to join with the Administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration during this period in commemorating the achievements of the United States space program which demonstrate that advanced technology devoted to peaceful purposes can lead the way to a better life for people of all nations.

In Witness Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand this eleventh day of July, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred seventy-seven, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and second.


JIMMY CARTER

Proclamation

United States space program which demonstrate that advanced technology devoted to peaceful purposes

reply to post by plube


Yet, you post no documentation that Bowman had anything at all to do with Star Wars. Yet the article linked in the OP promoted him as such. That is disingenuous at best. I know, it was "secret".

And to clarify as Reheat did. It is not HIS credentials I am questioning. It is the mis-characterization of them by the OP and other posters. However, even if he was Neil Armstrong, the first man on the moon, does not qualify him to speak to post-Cold War NORAD and/or air defense issues. He was not there, he does not know (obvious from his remarks).

reply to post by 911files


What they don't know is that Lt Cols are a "dime a dozen" at the Pentagon, so it is highly doubtful that he was in charge at DoD level of the program which proceeded Star Wars. That is highly unlikely indeed. He may have worked on it, but in charge? That is very highly doubtful.

He has every right to speak on 9/11 issues. No one that I know is questioning that right at all. However, that in no way indicates that anyone should listen to what he says... Especially, since he has gotten so many issues related to 9/11 wrong... You people defending him need to defend what he says, not his credentials, which are irrelevant.

That's one of the main problems with "truthers". You are not able to discern who to listen to. There are numerous folks with "credentials" that are nothing but gasbags. Bowman is one of them....

Originally posted by 911files

Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, ret. flew 101 combat missions in Vietnam. He is the recipient of the Eisenhower Medal, the George F. Kennan Peace Prize, the President’s Medal of Veterans for Peace, the Society of Military Engineers Gold Medal (twice), six Air Medals, and dozens of other awards and honors. His Ph.D. is in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from Caltech. He chaired 8 major international conferences, and is one of the country’s foremost experts on National Security.

Bowman worked secretly for the US government on the Star Wars project and was the first to coin the very term in a 1977 secret memo. After Bowman realized that the program was only ever intended to be used as an aggressive and not defensive tool, as part of a plan to initiate a nuclear war with the Soviets, he left the program and campaigned against it.

I don't know this guy. Not that that means anything, really, but I've never heard his name, and when you get a list of stuff like this that looks like he walks on water and farts lightning, I generally start poking around to see if the guy's a PX Ranger.

Anyone looked at these sources to see if it's true? A quick look at the recipient list for the Eisenhower Medal doesn't show him. I'm off to the lab for the night shift, will look at the other stuff tonight if time permits. I can get into 'the other internet' from work, will be amusing if he doesn't show in the DOD database as an LTC.

The List

Originally posted by Reheat
However, that in no way indicates that anyone should listen to what he says...

Of course not. He contradicts to OS. No one should listen to anyone who contradicts Big Brother. Isn't that right?

Especially, since he has gotten so many issues related to 9/11 wrong... You people defending him need to defend what he says, not his credentials, which are irrelevant.

I like his credentials, and he states from an insider perspective what I have concluded from my own research: That the top criminal suspect on 911 was Dick Cheney. Of course Bush gets a pass from being in that position because he had nothing to do with the chain of command due to his being too damn stupid.

That's one of the main problems with "truthers". You are not able to discern who to listen to. There are numerous folks with "credentials" that are nothing but gasbags. Bowman is one of them....

If he was touting the official garbage line he would be anything but a gasbag. To you, he'd be God.

reply to post by Bedlam


Yeah, I'm having a hard time finding the George F. Kennan Peace Prize he was supposed to have been awarded as well. Not saying he did not get any of them, just having a hard time verifying the guy's credentials.

reply to post by SimontheMagus


More gas. I told you already that you've already won the gas bag contest, but you keep trying to outdo yourself.

Bush not in the Chain of Command, huh? Well, for your ignorant information as the POTUS he was at the top of the chain-of-command as Commander In Chief. That is a designation contained in the Constitution, not that I would expect you to know.

What is this about Cheney again? What did he do or not do with proof, not more gas? There has been nothing but unsubstantiated "truther" allegations, so far.... Are we going to just get more gas or are you really going to say something that is correct and proven for a change? I don't have high hopes...

Originally posted by Reheat

Bush not in the Chain of Command, huh? Well, for your ignorant information as the POTUS he was at the top of the chain-of-command as Commander In Chief. That is a designation contained in the Constitution, not that I would expect you to know.

That's right, he wasn't in the chain of command. He was just a moronic little puppet dancing to the tune of his daddy. Anybody who knows what really went on inside the White House knows that Dick ran the show because Bush was an illiterate numbnutz.

These Nazi bastards don't care about the Constitution. In the imbecile's own words. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper."

I sincerely hope you don't really believe the crap you sell. It's bad enough just selling it... but believing it? Your brain cells must be screaming blue murder from the torture.....

Originally posted by 911files
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Yeah, I'm having a hard time finding the George F. Kennan Peace Prize he was supposed to have been awarded as well. Not saying he did not get any of them, just having a hard time verifying the guy's credentials.

Ok, so far, he didn't win the Eisenhower Medal, according to the Eisenhower Medal list. I intend to ask them about it directly to confirm, but he's sure not on the list. A cursory examination doesn't show anything CALLED the "George F Kennan Peace Prize". Kennan won a lot of prizes for peace himself, but I don't see any organization or award called any reasonable derivation of this name. Still looking.

edit to add: Well, there is this:

Today, professors, policy pogues, pundits, and even occasional politicians speak of the "Kennan Prize"—the nonexistent yet highly coveted award that will go to the man or woman who does for now what Kennan did for then.

Source

Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, ret. flew 101 combat missions in Vietnam. He is the recipient of the Eisenhower Medal, the George F. Kennan Peace Prize, the President’s Medal of Veterans for Peace, the Society of Military Engineers Gold Medal (twice), six Air Medals, and dozens of other awards and honors. His Ph.D. is in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from Caltech. He chaired 8 major international conferences, and is one of the country’s foremost experts on National Security.

Bowman worked secretly for the US government on the Star Wars project and was the first to coin the very term in a 1977 secret memo. After Bowman realized that the program was only ever intended to be used as an aggressive and not defensive tool, as part of a plan to initiate a nuclear war with the Soviets, he left the program and campaigned against it.

The Society of Military Engineers Gold Medal

The list doesn't include any Bowman's. Not even once.

Since 1927, the medal has been presented to a recipient every year. Only three members have been awarded the medal a second time, Rear Adm. Braccia and Col. Markle in 1979, and Brig. Gen. Bachus in 1992.