America's anti-immigration movement stems from one single man: John Tanton a racist.

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by litterbaux

 

Lol I'm glad I disgust you. I'm glad I disgust people like you who think America is now an elite club where only certain people are allowed.

This country was founded on the labor and sweat of previous immigrants. The ones that come here come for the same reasons. They want a better life and a better future for their children.

America is and always will be a country of immigrants.

Blame the broken immigration system first before blaming the people.

edit on 6/20/2012 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

Yes...immigrants made this country great.

No, the entitled descendants of those immigrants are destroying this country because they just don't have the same work ethic as 1st or 2nd generation immigrants do.

If we want to boost our economy...we need a new batch of hard working immigrants to jump start it.

reply to post by Monsatan


The libs will come up with some way to make it about race even if they are Caucasians from another nation. Everything is about race with them.

Actually, it's quite racist of them.

OP: Never heard of the guy. My anti-illegal immigration stance comes from facts, knowledge and economics. Once the U.S. gets enough money to provide assistance to its own citizens, then we can provide help to non-citizens. But, somehow, we got $16 trillion in debt.

But I guess your lord and master will find a way to raise the money to pay for not-Americans. They are his voter base, after all.

/TOA

reply to post by muse7


So what? So, he's a racist.

a) He's still entitled to free speech and to work for causes he believes in, no matter how ignorant they may be.

b) While his motivations may be racist, it doesn't mean that all arguments for stemming immigration are...

Living in an area with a HEAVY illegal immigrant population (lot of migrant farm workers), I now understand the economic necessity of these folks, and how intricately our economy is already dependent upon them.

The reason there will never be sweeping immigration reform, is that stemming the flow of this illegal cheap labor pool would cause massive inflation in many different industries employing this labor pool...

I think most folks don't really realize how in bed we already are with this...and that stopping it, would be a disastrous blow to our economy (and tax base). Just because they are illegal, doesn't mean they don't pay taxes you know.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

If we want to boost our economy...we need a new batch of hard working immigrants to jump start it.

and the 10+ million who've entered legally since the last anmesty have "jump started" the economy how exactly?

reply to post by Gazrok

I think most folks don't really realize how in bed we already are with this...and that stopping it, would be a disastrous blow to our economy (and tax base). Just because they are illegal, doesn't mean they don't pay taxes you know

totally appreciating this sentiment, i have to ask ... just what do these illegal immigrants pay taxes on legitimately ??
1. gasoline
2. alcohol
3. clothing (maybe)
4. some dry goods that are not provided via other charity institutions
5. cell phones
6. ?? i'm running short on ideas, any help ??

do try to remember, they do not pay property taxes and the homeowners participating in HUD do not collect enough to pay their respective property taxes, that balance usually comes out of their pocket, not the illegals.
with the current homeless populations throughout the country, do you really think many units would stand unoccupied ?? maybe a few but an awful lot less would be HUD participants.

imho, i would bet they might pay a whole $100 per month in total taxes, that is not the windfall so many make it out to be. and property values/taxes, would likely increase as the illegal immigrants disappeared, crime reduced and structural integrity improved.

i have yet to see an American community that has improved with the presence of illegal immigrants.
this FL county has been working on it for more than 20yrs and they still can't find a balance.

reply to post by PvtHudson


Feel free to prove me wrong.

Show me a person of color that spends even half the time that whites do complaining about immigration.

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by litterbaux

 

Lol I'm glad I disgust you. I'm glad I disgust people like you who think America is now an elite club where only certain people are allowed.

This country was founded on the labor and sweat of previous immigrants. The ones that come here come for the same reasons. They want a better life and a better future for their children.

America is and always will be a country of immigrants.

Blame the broken immigration system first before blaming the people.

edit on 6/20/2012 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

You are way out of league here. I have been inside an INS office and have seen the many faces of people from all over the world who are doing it the legal way. Sneaking over the border or overstaying a visa doesn't cut it! There is no excuse for the breaking of our laws and administrations using the issue to get votes or for other political reasons.
Earlier administrations put limits on even legal immigration back when so many were coming in through Ellis Island.

Wikipedia says this about immigration numbers in the US

In 2006 the United States accepted more legal immigrants as permanent residents than all other countries in the world combined.[1]

After ethnic quotas on immigration were removed in 1965[2] the number of actual (first-generation) immigrants living in the United States eventually quadrupled,[3] from 9.6 million in 1970 to about 38 million in 2007.[4] Over one million persons were naturalized as U.S. citizens in 2008.

The Congress passed the Emergency Quota Act in 1921, followed by the Immigration Act of 1924. The Immigration Act of 1924 was aimed at limiting immigration overall, and making sure that the nationalities of new arrivals matched the overall national profile.

en.wikipedia.org...

Whatever in the world makes you think the US is obligated to accept everybody who comes here? And especially whatever makes you think the US is obligated to take in illegals and give them benefits not even available to US Citizens? Why should they be given preference over people immigrating through legal procedure?

You might like to take note of how many have been coming from China since 2010. One would think that it would be the opposite, you know with China being so favored worldwide.

But look, don't let your socialist moorings get in the way of numbers and facts.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by PvtHudson

 

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Show me a person of color that spends even half the time that whites do complaining about immigration.

Well, enough illegals were mad enough to gather in LA for a rally....were you thinking that they just happened to think of it that day?

ironically, this article states that Prez Bush sought a guest worker program

President Bush is pushing for a guest worker program that could provide temporary legal status for some of the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States, but many of his fellow Republicans are taking a more restrictive stance.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Originally posted by InfoKartel

Originally posted by projectvxn
Really? A man I've never even heard of makes my opinion racist?

By the way I've been a citizen about a month and a half now. I'm against illegal immigration because my family and I did it the right way. You can't hope to be law abiding when your first act is breaking the law.

edit on 20-6-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Oh so now millions of people who you've never met are not worthy because they didn't do as you did.

Go get some pills kid, you need 'em.

No, Projectvxn is right. He and his family did it the legal way, while others feel they should get a free pass. It costs money to become naturalized legally, and most people have to hire an attorney to do it. The govt often finds creative ways to deny citizenship based on technicalities.

Originally posted by Honor93
muse, you are promoting this agenda why ??
are you thinking of joining or something ??

this agenda has nothing to do with the illegal immigrant problems ppl are finally openly discussing at several levels of government. shame on you for intentionally clouding the issues.

most ppl who are against illegal immigrant relief, also support legal immigration, even this guy.
he just wants to reduce the amount of legal immigration we currently endure.
personally, i don't see much wrong with that either.

if you are going to condemn him via his associations, why doesn't the same apply to POTUS ??

Heh heh good one...Ayers, Van Jones, Soros, Frank Marshall Davis....

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus


No, Projectvxn is right. He and his family did it the legal way, while others feel they should get a free pass. It costs money to become naturalized legally, and most people have to hire an attorney to do it. The govt often finds creative ways to deny citizenship based on technicalities.

Thank you for posting this (although it does sort of undermine your point).

I understand that illegal immigration is a problem. However, until we have comprehensive immigration reform that makes immigrating into the country a more reasonable process, I find it difficult to blame the immigrants themselves. Most are just seeking a better life and don't do any harm besides not paying taxes, if we naturalized these immigrants and made them tax-paying citizens (*gasp* amnesty!), there would be no problem at all.

As I see it, the problem lies on our side of the border. We allow companies to hire illegal immigrants with massive oversights, we have complicated the immigration process to the point where it is laughably obtuse, and our border security is a joke.

Being mad at the immigrants themselves for crossing the border is like being mad at the water that spills out of a leaky bucket.

reply to post by drwizardphd


I am primarily concerned with truth. what part of my post undermines my point? What did you perceive my point is? I thought my point was that what people want does not supercede the breaking of laws. Was it my point about the govt finding creative ways to deny? Yes, I think that does occur, not to mention the fact that the govt somehow managed to misplace a bunch of papers which people had sent that tells the govt where they have relocated. That was when the govt mandated the fingerprinting of people of various target countries who were here on visas or had green cards. People who were in that target group had to report to the govt every time they moved or got new jobs.
Now when people who apply for citizenship are getting fingerprinted many times over during the process, I find it incredibly bizarre that the current administration should be so willing to place illegals or the children of illegals above those who worked so hard to do things legally.
This isn't a point of being mad at people who cross the border, it is a matter of fairness to those who do not break the laws but work hard at doing things legally and justly. It is also a matter of fairness to American citizens in general.

As for companies being held responsible for hiring of employees, ICE does their fair share of raids, and who opposes that? I think we all know who. When sovereign American citizens themselves have to be fingerprinted to prove to a potential employer they are legal citizens, then we are making the sovereign citizens to show their papers for what illegals are doing.
In essence, isn't that what we are doing when we demand that employers be held responsible for the presence of illegals?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus


As for companies being held responsible for hiring of employees, ICE does their fair share of raids, and who opposes that? I think we all know who. When sovereign American citizens themselves have to be fingerprinted to prove to a potential employer they are legal citizens, then we are making the sovereign citizens to show their papers for what illegals are doing.
In essence, isn't that what we are doing when we demand that employers be held responsible for the presence of illegals?

I'm afraid I don't really follow.

There should be no 'fingerprinting' done of any kind. Every single job I have had has required some form of documentation from me so that I know I'm a legal citizen. The people who hire illegals know what they are doing, they usually hire illegals because they can pay them slave wages and have them work off-the-books.

Targeting people who employ illegals under these conditions will do more for the American workforce than targeting and deporting individual immigrants will. It's a much more logistically sound solution, and when the jobs are not there, the impetus to even come here in the first place won't be there. It's really a win-win.

Think of it this way: if you deport a working immigrant, there's a (let's say) construction firm short one guy. The owner of that firm can either choose to replace that worker with a documented American citizen for around twice the pay rate (cutting into his bottom line), or he can hire another illegal immigrant and save on payroll. Another illegal immigrant gets a job, American citizens are still unemployed. Capitalism at work.

Targeting the employers is the only reasonable solution.