If You Dare

reply to post by ColCurious


Touche', but it's not a religous rant thread! Thanks for the honesty tho.

It all depends on when you think that ‘life’ actually starts.

If you believe that life starts when the sperm enters the egg, or after the first splitting of cells, then of course you’re going to believe that it’s murder at any point in time to terminate the pregnancy.

If you believe (like me) that life does not start until the foetus brain is fully developed or until it can live unaided (except feeding of course) on its own outside of the mother….. then no - not murder, and woman can choose to terminate the non-entity if she so wishes.

Mickierocksman

reply to post by ColCurious


Did I make a mistake refering to any babys father being of the human kind as super intelligent compared to anything else on the the planet in the carnel world ? Lets make Gods intel the ultimate beyond even super, if I confused you.

However your confusion is even completely off topic.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

The difference is, I, as someone who is pro-choice, would never sit and try to force my belief on others.

And yet, here you are. Over and over and over again, in every single abortion thread you can find, telling my daughters and anyone else willing to read your garbage that its okay to kill their babies if that's what they wanna do. Quite ironic wouldn't you say?

The problem with your argument is that it is only a belief, with no factual backing.

Classic denial. I truly believe that it is YOU that you are trying to convince.

It all depends on when you think that ‘life’ actually starts.

reply to post by Mickierocksman


As another poster did perfectly point out. Not in any one case is there room for thinking and thoughting.

You absolutely must know beyond all doubt.

Any living organism that you try to kill will run away and attempt to escape death.

I don't like the idea of abortions but I think they should be legal.

I couldn't get through the video Randy. It should be considered a snuff movie. I don't understand how anyone can sit through it without being morbidly horrified, let alone come in here and defend this practice with no shame whatsoever.

Not only that, but then these people turn around and tell you that you should be ashamed of yourself for speaking out against it !!!!!!!!!

I just don't get it.

But on a positive note... you did manage to change 2 peoples minds on the issue with this video, and they have openly admitted it in this thread. That is the whole point of talking about it and making people aware of what's really going on, and for that I applaud you Sir.

Keep up the good work!!!

reply to post by randyvs


Abortion makes me feel physical pain to think about. I view all lives and sacred and even accidentally stepping on a crawling spider makes me hurt inside.
I try to be diplomatic about it and know that in some cases, abortion is justified. I would never fault a parent who has decided to abort a child they know is going to be born without a chance of survival, or in such a way that their lives would be horribly short and painful.
I would never fault a woman who simply could not bear the the infant born out of rape or incest.
I would not hold anything against a woman whose life would be threatened by the birth of an infant. In that case, I do truly believe her life holds precedence.
I don't even have an issue with women who "mess up" and use the morning after pill.
What bothers me is woman or young girls who use abortion as a means of birth control. Or women or girls pressured by their partners to abort simply because the man does not want to deal with a child. Or women or girls that just "don't feel like dealing with it". Life is not always the way you plan it.
I guess, I feel that once there is a little heartbeat, that little being has chosen you to carry it into this world and that is a gift. Pregnancy and birth is such a powerful and amazing process.
I got pregnant when I was 16 and despite the pressure of society and my father, and the worst, my boyfriend and his parents (my mother was always by my side), I still loved my little baby from the moment I took the pregnancy test. Now here she sits, 17 years old, the apple of my eye. I shudder to think had I gone with my boyfriend's wishes. He would have been long gone, and I would have had a hole in my heart that I never would have repaired. As it was, he left our daughter and I soon after she was born and went on to have four more kids. So much for not wanting to be a dad!

reply to post by Bone75

I couldn't get through the video Randy

I'm not ashamed to admit I forced myself thru white knuckles and tears to watch every bit of it once. I will never watch it again. No friggen way. Some of the posts here have even brought me to tears. And most of those I've ever known on this earth, I'm positive would concur that I am a tough mo fo, for lack of a better term.

Happy Fathers Day

reply to post by bastet11


How beautiful you truely are. I imagine the universe could only compare.

You chose life. Life you will have.
...................................................................................................................................................... ..............

It seems that society in one form or another thru time has always had it's human sacrifice.



What is up with that ?

I am not one to tell a woman what to do with her body especially if it does not have my own child in it, because if the mother or father don't care enough about the baby to keep it alive then maybe death is more merciful than living 18 years under the rule of such parents. But I will say this, the two people I know who have had an abortion, one being my own mother, they both told me they regretted it very much. It haunted them both their whole lives. However, they were not raped. And I believe it should be ok in cases of rape if that's what the woman wishes. And I will go one step further and say that, if a woman has an abortion without it being a case of rape, if she has consentual sex and gets pregnant and wants to have an abortion, she should not be allowed to have any more children after the first abortion. She should be given a hysterectomy. Of course, I would not have been born, but even still I cannot argue with the logic in it. If a mother (and often the father as well) are ok with killing one of their own babies, they should not have the opportunity to be given responsibility over another! It's not the male's choice if an abortion is performed, so until that legally changes, I can find no justice in punishing the man as well.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
Any living organism that you try to kill will run away and attempt to escape death.

I don't like the idea of abortions but I think they should be legal.

edit on 17-6-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

Ah, the thinking man. I like the pose. But I'm a little confused at what you are saying and at the video you posted. So let me just try to get this straight in my mind, and if I'm totally way off, please, do correct me. Are you saying that, because a fetus doesn't fight back, its ok to kill it? (I'm gonna take your word on this alleged claim of lack of self defense maneuvers on behalf of the fetus because I have not watched any video of abortions or videos of a fetus being poked at to see what it does or any other evidence of this claim)

Just thinking about it, those organisms you showed were not in the womb, and perhaps it is reasonable that a being growing in a womb would not have developed any self defense instincts yet because the womb is generally regarded as a safe place. The use of self defense within the womb would not have been needed enough throughout the history of mankind to have necessitated the development of self defense instincts within the womb until a certain point when the living being is prepared for the outside world which is full of dangers.

Again, if I'm way off then I apologise and just forget everything I said...

reply to post by josephamccoy

i wish that people would think for just 1 second before they have sex, and think do i want to have a child? if the answer is no then put a rubber on it's far less traumatic.

Condoms are only 98% effective. Yes, that strange sucking sound you are hearing is all the men at ATS gasping and running to verify this on the box, and I assure you, it is on the box.

I agree with the other poster. You can find this to be disgusting and be against it, without trying to slam your views onto everyone else. If you feel abortion is wrong, don't get one, lobby your government in an attempt to stifle the rights of your fellow countrymen.

I don't think anyone needs to be convinced either way, you either support having an abortion, or you don't, no amount of videos, dead fetus images and such are going to change anyone's mind.

With that.... I assume all of you pro-lifers are at the forefront of demanding your country stop all trade with China because of their 1 child policy and forced abortions, right? I mean, you are against abortions period, and china is the world leader in abortions, some of which are forced and are done in less than medically sound procedures.

So i am positive that, not only have you all been organizing and actively lobbying your government, you've also started a boycott campaign against any retailers and businesses trading with the Chinese. Which, obviously, is about all of them.

You feel abortion is wrong. I feel dictating what others can do with their body based on your views, wrong. Lets say I'm a woman (I'm not) and have an abortion (I support the choice, I wouldn't want one, or my wife to have one) what have I done? Arguably, I've extinguished a life before it was born into this world.

Yet, how many doctors, nurses, and innocent people, have been killed any anti-abortion groups in their murderous campaigns? Do you think those doctors ONLY performed abortions? They probably worked a few shifts at the clinic in between saving peoples lives.

I agree, I think people need to be more responsible about having safe sex for various reasons, but I'm still flabbergasted that so many people would support removing someones rights over something that effects them in no way what so ever.

reply to post by randyvs


I think the solution is....the female should carry the child to full term...and then have the baby adopted into a good family. There are many, many people who want to adopt.

reply to post by randyvs


No hate from me, just a strong sense of disagreement. At the end of the day though, we are each entitled to our views - mine are no more correct than yours.

It is for that reason alone that i think you cannot ban abortion. If people disagree then fine, that is their choice. It would be wrong though to take the choice away from those that disagree with your views.

Not a subject that is black and white but my general view is that as soon as a human lifeform achieves consciousness at any level then there should not be an abortion. I don't know if there is a way to determine when consciousness occurs in a fetus (brainwave scan I presume?) but until there is consciousness of any sort then the fetus is no different to sperm, in my opinion.

Abortion, socialism, crime, are symptoms of something is not working. I am not a christian, or any religion. I don't believe in abortion, but I will not sit in judgment on another. What we have done, is offer our home, money, and compassion to two teenage girls who were seduced by grown men and got them pregnant. Their parents were alcoholics and no use. But the two babies were born healthy, stayed with their moms, and now the mothers are in community college. I think this method is much more effective and I actually do something to help the babies. And I care about them after they are born.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by randyvs

 

I think the solution is....the female should carry the child to full term...and then have the baby adopted into a good family. There are many, many people who want to adopt.

See this is how I feel about most cases.. Very surprizing to me how few come to this conclusion.


Flavian

No hate from me

Thanks for not hating me Flav. That avalanche hasn't really happened has it ?

Originally posted by DeathbecomesLife
When a mother is not left alone to raise her child, but is helped by the whole community...

When each child is regarded as the sacred continuation of our species...

When each person is free to explore this world again with the same wonderment they had as a child...

Then and only then will no one consider an abortion.

It is interesting that the above, which is the truth on the matter, has gotten not one reply and only a modicum of acknowledgement through stars. It is the truth. Before you can say you are against something, you should do some home work to find out why a thing is being done. You should try to get to the root of the issue and address it there.

How can you begrudge someone for having an abortion if all you are going to do is raise that child to go die in a WAR?

How can you begrudge someone for having an abortion when you first stripped them of the right to choose to get pregnant through rape or oppression?

How can you begrudge someone for having an abortion when the child will only be born suffering due to birth defects?

There is a reason the weaker sex physically is endowed with the divine right (it is in HER womb, not yours) to choose whether to allow life into this world or not. It is not the place of Man to decide this.

However, it is a man's place to protect this sacred vessel. To provide a sustainable environment for the child once it is born. To ensure the safety and health of the child. To teach it. To love it.

Do we acknowledge the sacredness of our women today? Truthfully?

Do we do what is the logical thing to do as Man who is trying to ensure the survival of our species?

It begins in the womb.

Originally posted by DeathbecomesLife
What are you willing to sacrifice that abortion is no longer considered?

How against it are you?

So I ask these again...

It is no one's place to dominate the body of another. A woman has the sacred right to do with what she will her own body. Until a child leaves her womb, she has the power.

Look at your women, and ask yourself, what will I do to protect them?

Then when you find your answer, know that the other man will too.