US-Australia plans for war on China

A war with China is certainly not the go in Australia, at least from the public's view anyway.
China is regarded positively and is providing us with strong economic growth and employing the population.

Yes the US influence is wanting us to attack however this is the US and not supported by Australian and certainly isn't in our interests. Honestly most Australians are getting a little fedup with America at the moment trying to impose their views on us.

Unless China attack Australia I don't see us attacking China but rather defending it.
Just my 2 cents

reply to post by stanguilles7


Here's the deal, the USA is currently struggling to stay afloat. You can look at nearly every indicator and see that we are. As far as I'm concerned, we're already fighting more of a war than we can handle. We're currently expending more money than we had anticipated on a war in Afghanistan which we're not winning, and we've withdrawn from Iraq leaving them in a pretty big mess. These weren't advanced enemies, and I don't think we'd do well against a military that's actually capable of fighting us on semi-level terms.

While the Pacific nations may want the US to come to their aide, it's not something we can really do right now. Our military is spread too thin and it's battle weary already, taking on another campaign would be opening the door to disaster. It's not a tactically sound move right now. What happens if we do engage China and we end up not performing as well as we need to? What would our options be once we start to run low on our military numbers? Could we start conscription? Would that even be worth the attempt? I don't know how effective it would be. I've seen the physical shape of youth these days, a lot of our correctly aged people are in no way capable of fighting in the military. They can hardly find the effort to get up and at go outside.

There's never been one nation that's "ruled the world" or held the top spot forever. Change is inevitable. As much as I don't want to consider China being the next world superpower, it's looking like a good possibility. We could possibly do something about it, but that would be very difficult right now. It'd require a major shift in how our country lives and works, and it would require a unifying purpose that holds everyone's attention long enough to get them doing something besides watching tv and playing with Chinese manufactured toys.

reply to post by Mapkar

While the Pacific nations may want the US to come to their aide, it's not something we can really do right now.

We do not want that. We are being forced into it. Why would we want protection from our greatest trading partner? There is no problem in the Asia Pacific.

What problem is there?

The US is here to try to muscle in on our profits and to annoy China. That is all. America is the problem.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by Mapkar

 

While the Pacific nations may want the US to come to their aide, it's not something we can really do right now.

We do not want that. We are being forced into it. Why would we want protection from our greatest trading partner? There is no problem in the Asia Pacific.

What problem is there?

There are al sorts of problems Many countries in the South Pacific have directly asked the US to ensure china does not clamp down on trade in the South Pacific. The TPP was formed for that reason,amongst others. Countries Vietnam, Australia, stand to have their trade with the rest of the world severely limited by an expanding Chinese Empire.

Here's a few thinks which might be helpful fill in the blaring gaps in your half-cocked,baseless opinions.

www.eastasiaforum.org...

A stronger China has long been the most serious threat to Vietnam’s security. Vietnam came under Chinese suzerainty for almost a thousand years until 938 CE. Even after the French colonisation of Vietnam in the latter half of the 19th century, China was still deeply involved in Vietnam through invasion and occupation, as illustrated by the brief yet bloody war China waged along Vietnam’s northern border in 1979 and the naval clash initiated by China in the South China Sea in March 1988.

www.eastasiaforum.org...

reply to post by Mapkar


Your thinking of it as a hot war, but that isnt accurate. This is more like a trade war, where key militaries are put in key positions to enure a hot war doesnt unfold.

The US is not seeking to invade China as they did with Afghanistan or Iraq. They are seeking to contain china, which is a far, far different approach than US foreign policy in the Middle East.

And the US has FAR more to lose if they dont contain China.

Originally posted by phantom150


Yes the US influence is wanting us to attack however this is the US and not supported by Australian and certainly isn't in our interests.

Nothing in the article implies the US wants Australia to attack China. This IS NOT about a hot war with China. t's about ensuring China does not use its military might to control the South Pacific. And that is very much, obviously, in Australia's interest. China is an Aussie trading partner. That doesnt mean they are an ally.

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by Rosha

 

I had to LOL at this. The silly beggar was getting all angry and attacking the OP, and couldn't even figure this part out for himself...

Yeah, me too. Seeing as he's Australian, you would think he would be familiar with the names of major national newspapers.

Originally posted by Mapkar
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

Fighting China is a terrible idea. I can't see why we would do that.

Besides, how would we get the money to do it? I'm sure China won't pay us to fight them

This goes back to another ATS thread titled:

IF WW3 happened, and we (USA) lost, do you think the "winners" would be friendly?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So, I agree, fighting China ALONE is a terrible idea...a country needs allies to go to a REAL war.

reply to post by stanguilles7


That is wrong. Your MSM lies to you.

We have a petition against the TTP

To the Honourable The Speaker and Members of the House of Representatives This petition of concerned citizens draws to the attention of the House: The Australian government is negotiating a Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade agreement (TPPA) with the US, New Zealand, Chile, Peru, Brunei, Singapore, Malaysia and Vietnam. But the agenda is being set by giant US corporations. They see many Australian health, social, cultural and environmental policies are barriers to trade which should be removed. They want to use the negotiations to undermine the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme and charge higher prices for medicines, to give special rights for corporations to sue governments, to remove labelling of genetically modified food, to undermine local jobs and fair employment conditions for government contracts, and to weaken policies for Australian content in film, television and digital media. They also oppose including enforceable labour rights and environmental protections in the agreement.

parlinfo.aph.gov.au...;page=0;query=TPPA;rec=0;resCount=Default

Do you know why your government is out of control? Because of people like you. You have no idea about TPPA yet you talk about it. All you have read is some bs US MSM story. You have no idea about regional politics in theAsia Pacific.

Why on earth would an American be defending their government militarizing the Pacific? I honestly find it hard to believe. The sooner the reserve ststus is taken away from you people the better. You will obviously defend your government on every international issue then from the other side of your mouth you complain about domestic issues. It seems many of you are ignorant greedy and selfish.

America needs to be taken down as superpoer. It is a pretender. The american people do not deserve to live in a superpower. Seems most americans only care about themselves.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

That is wrong. Your MSM lies to you.

How is a south pacific online newspaper part of the American 'MSM'?

You're going to have to do better than that.

Why on earth would an American be defending their government militarizing the Pacific? I honestly find it hard to believe.

Here's your problem, mate. You think someone reporting something is 'supporting' it. I dont support my government's militarization of the Pacific. I dont support my government's militarization of ANYTHING. I'm just pointing out the reasons FOR doing this.

Can you not grasp that rather large distinction?

reply to post by Germanicus


Don't be mad because your country is weak.

You would not be in the position you are in if you didn't need another country to be your daddy. Your government is made up of a bunch of pushovers and you're mad because we're top dog.

I guess it sucks for you that it will continue to be this way, huh?

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

That is wrong. Your MSM lies to you.

How is a south pacific online newspaper part of the American 'MSM'?

You're going to have to do better than that.

Why on earth would an American be defending their government militarizing the Pacific? I honestly find it hard to believe.

Here's your problem, mate. You think someone reporting something is 'supporting' it. I dont support my government's militarization of the Pacific. I dont support my government's militarization of ANYTHING. I'm just pointing out the reasons FOR doing this.

Can you not grasp that rather large distinction?

edit on 17-6-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)

Can you not grasp that you are wrong and you are parroting bs. I am not your mate. And you do defend the US Governement. You just gave them excuses. Excuses that you get from MSM. You can clearly see above that the TPP 'treaty' is being pushed by American Corporations to destroy our laws. You are wrong. The US Government are Imperialists and there is no need for their military to be here. They are not the police and gods of the world.

You are wrong. Stop believing MSM.

reply to post by TritonTaranis

China is an aggressive communist country, its set its sites on world domination and nothing will deter it from that goal not even its own people choking to death in illegal levels of pollution, it simply doesn't care, only a confrontation will stop its worrying dream, China is no different in its goals than that of Adolph Hitler & Nazi Germany, 

China is an aggressive communist country? How many
countries have china invaded in the last 50 years? Your
just another fear mongerer dying for a war!

As for tibet. Yes, china has not been perfect when it comes
to tibet, but do you know what tibet was like under lama rule?
Or do you just belueve the western media propaganda that tells
you that tibet was heaven on earth before chinese rule.

Most of the tibeten people were slaves, being tortured in
horrible ways, and starving to death, while the lama and
his cronies lived like kings. Does that soung like heaven on
earth to you?

As for taiwan being invaded by china, that will never happen,
unless china wants to start world war three. Why would they
want to do that? They have got where they are today without
having to invade other countries. Why change that?

Originally posted by Germanicus

You are wrong. Stop believing MSM.

Do you even know what MSM is? Nothing the OP posted is considered mainstream media....

reply to post by Germanicus


I WILL say it's impressive how you totally ignore every point I take the time to list, in favor of calling me names and misconstruing my argument.

Originally posted by stanguilles7
reply to post by Germanicus

 

I WILL say it's impressive how you totally ignore every point I take the time to list, in favor of calling me names and misconstruing my argument.

Where do I call you names?

Can you not grasp that you are wrong and you are parroting bs. I am not your mate. And you do defend the US Governement. You just gave them excuses. Excuses that you get from MSM. You can clearly see above that the TPP 'treaty' is being pushed by American Corporations to destroy our laws. You are wrong. The US Government are Imperialists and there is no need for their military to be here. They are not the police and gods of the world. You are wrong. Stop believing MSM.

I said you were wrong. It is you who is ignoring points. The US Government are Imperialists. There is no need for them to be anywhere in the world but America. They especially do not need to be here in the Asia Pacific.

Originally posted by Mapkar
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

Fighting China is a terrible idea. I can't see why we would do that.

Besides, how would we get the money to do it? I'm sure China won't pay us to fight them

As china becomes more integrated into the world it will be less able and inclined to exploit its regional primacy in a obtuse or that of a politically obtuse fashion such as taking and obtuse control of other nation states. China has emerged as a regionally dominant power but it is not likely to anytime soon become a global power as it still lacks in military, cultural and control and can only compete on one of the several major components that is needed to be a global power and they can only compete economically.
Furthermore china's rise is not to be seen as a threat but rather a good thing in the long run and with the pushing for the one world currency it is safe to say that only the chinese elite will benefit and that in the future their nation will be the regional power that promotes prosperity and peace to a degree and keeps down potential rival states. In short china can hopefully become what the EU is to America. An anchor in the far eastern mainland that is dependent on America and Europe for its place in the global world order and is dependent on those alliances in order to maintain its regional dominance at the same time Japan will act as the subordinate anchor that is is to the hegemonic american dominance and power in the far east. However control of the eastern asian mainland and a degree of US influence is hard to ever succeed without successful inclusion of the chinese state. China should consider the US an ally as the US has brought them into the global world and is the main reason their economy is a success and the cause for their development and their ties between Europe. It is the United States that is the great arbiter of Eurasian landscape and only with and through the US and Japan will China have relations that are friendly with Europe and with Europe can than in a way have relations that are pleasant with the middle east. Furthermore without a viable strategic consensus from America china would not have or likely have and be able to keep the massive foreign investment that is necessary to their economic growth.

For the united states China as a regional power should be embraced and co-opted into a wider framework and for that of international cooperation can be a vitally important strategic asset and location for the US. American chinese strategic dialogue regarding the areas that both countries wish to see free of domination by other aspiring hegemons is therefore imperative. But to make progress the dialogue should be sustained and serious. Any anti american hegemonic actions by china would only hurt china and isolate them and cut them off From Japan and that of Europe the middle east and that of North America and to a degree South America. Chinas capacity to attract foreign investment would greatly be hindered if it were not for the United States. Furthermore China's own aspirations to be a regional power and to have a position as a key global player would greatly be victimized should they ever take an anti western approach and ultimantley it would only lead to their quick isolation and slow but sure destruction from outside and quick destruction from within.

Originally posted by Mapkar
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

Here's the deal, the USA is currently struggling to stay afloat. You can look at nearly every indicator and see that we are. As far as I'm concerned, we're already fighting more of a war than we can handle. We're currently expending more money than we had anticipated on a war in Afghanistan which we're not winning, and we've withdrawn from Iraq leaving them in a pretty big mess. These weren't advanced enemies, and I don't think we'd do well against a military that's actually capable of fighting us on semi-level terms.

While the Pacific nations may want the US to come to their aide, it's not something we can really do right now. Our military is spread too thin and it's battle weary already, taking on another campaign would be opening the door to disaster. It's not a tactically sound move right now. What happens if we do engage China and we end up not performing as well as we need to? What would our options be once we start to run low on our military numbers? Could we start conscription? Would that even be worth the attempt? I don't know how effective it would be. I've seen the physical shape of youth these days, a lot of our correctly aged people are in no way capable of fighting in the military. They can hardly find the effort to get up and at go outside.

There's never been one nation that's "ruled the world" or held the top spot forever. Change is inevitable. As much as I don't want to consider China being the next world superpower, it's looking like a good possibility. We could possibly do something about it, but that would be very difficult right now. It'd require a major shift in how our country lives and works, and it would require a unifying purpose that holds everyone's attention long enough to get them doing something besides watching tv and playing with Chinese manufactured toys.

You dont know what you are talking about


You cannot rule the world without subordination of Europe and the Middle east you must be the great arbiter of the Eurasian continent. He who controls Eurasia will control the world its is highly unlikely that China can ever have the influence that the United States is able to have as the US is the great arbiter of Europe and middle east and far east asian affairs. Furthermore the military is not spread to think and AEGIS equipped destroyers are being put around Japan along with missile defense. Oh and take into account that China is not to be viewed as an enemy it would detrimental to them and be bad for the US.

Hypothetically speaking if a war between the US and China was to break out china would lose. They are surrounded by military bases and our naval fleets their navy is very weak same with their air force and they have more internal problems than we do. There nuclear weapons are usually low yield and on poor delivery systems and they have no missile defense. In addition it is Naval and Air power that determines a nuclear war to a large extent and them being inferior in those two categories signifies there defeat. They could be effectively isolated and attacked from all sides and a nuclear attack on them could succeed with no threat of a second strike. Only Russia is capable of launching a second strike on the United States and the US is working to prevent that fully with additional missile defense and lasers that can vaporize missiles which is being worked on right now.


Of course that will never happen as China and their elites are western friendly and their will be a world order.



I really hope a child does not reply and make me than counter with proof it becomes increasingly tiresome to continually try and educate the morons.

Originally posted by paradox
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Don't be mad because your country is weak.

You would not be in the position you are in if you didn't need another country to be your daddy. Your government is made up of a bunch of pushovers and you're mad because we're top dog.

I guess it sucks for you that it will continue to be this way, huh?

I'd not be mistaking weakness for strength so readily if I were you.

The problem with creating promoting and upholding a dog eat dog world view..is accepting that eventually you will be the one getting eaten..you cant put a gun into peoples hands load it and then expect them not to use it. Personally..the US has nothing I want in or for my life..ditto China...as far as I am concerned, you can both rack of and let other nations self determine their futures - as we are anyway for the most part....you ( the US ) are not top dog..you are biggest bully..and as such..will eventually be at the mercy of all your victims...as all bullies before you have discovered. I can't conceive of a more vulnerable weakened position to be in.

I hope they will be kinder to you (US).

Ro

Originally posted by ARandomAfflictionOfSense
Australia still is the US lap dog it has always been.Is there a country anywhere I could call my own?
Nope!!

Correction our Government is, the People are fully aware of this and no matter who we elect - the position is always the same...suck up to the yanks. I for one think our Gov. is aware of some weapons platforms the Americans have that have yet to be rolled out in full public view and would be game changers in 21st Century warfare. I strongly suspect if our Government thought for one second that China would be a real threat we would be "hedging" but the fact we follow blindly what ever the US asks tells me we are in the loop.

I am also convinced of the existence of a Missile Silo base in our North West that would be used as a first strike platform, something our Chinese friends may not realize.