Wow. I finally get it! The Enlightenment.

Not having fun can be the fun.

Leave others to enjoy their not-fun.

Namaste.

reply to post by arpgme

The first philosophy I was following was "unconditional love" and when I thought about what that mean, I understood it as spreading the joy to myself and others, wanting to see others as happy and smiling...

The things that we do in life is motivated by interest (unless of course we feel like we are being 'forced'). Children and Animals are intuitively trying to have fun with their lives, unfortunately, with adults, they get more serious. They laugh less and play less, and yet, these are the qualities of the "child-like" state that many spiritual people talk about. So many people are so "serious" about their spirituality, that they may spend years trying to get to a deep, secret truth, or trying to get to a higher "level", instead of looking "inward" and remember their child-like playful nature...

Life is a game, and all of the people you interact with, friends, family, and so-called 'enemies' are all playing roles in this game. There are also those who are using 'cheat-codes' so to speak, so that they won't have to play fair. We are all doing it for 'fun'. This is why when people finally die and see 'The Light' it is so playful with them, and some people even laugh themselves into the afterlife after realizing how 'serious' they were taking it all.


So the purpose of life is 'fun'. When you are having fun, especially, with others, you are all playing together through your interactions in this game called life. Fun is your child-like nature that you forgotten when you were forced into the 'matrix' so-to-speak.

You were really pissing me off at first, with not bringing forth your vision. But after you posting this, I can understand where you are coming from. Yes, I see the child like intention behind your original OP!


I certainly learned something, and I thank you!

Originally posted by arpgme
The first philosophy I was following was "unconditional love" and when I thought about what that mean, I understood it as spreading the joy to myself and others, wanting to see others as happy and smiling...

The things that we do in life is motivated by interest (unless of course we feel like we are being 'forced'). Children and Animals are intuitively trying to have fun with their lives, unfortunately, with adults, they get more serious. They laugh less and play less, and yet, these are the qualities of the "child-like" state that many spiritual people talk about. So many people are so "serious" about their spirituality, that they may spend years trying to get to a deep, secret truth, or trying to get to a higher "level", instead of looking "inward" and remember their child-like playful nature...

Life is a game, and all of the people you interact with, friends, family, and so-called 'enemies' are all playing roles in this game. There are also those who are using 'cheat-codes' so to speak, so that they won't have to play fair. We are all doing it for 'fun'. This is why when people finally die and see 'The Light' it is so playful with them, and some people even laugh themselves into the afterlife after realizing how 'serious' they were taking it all.


So the purpose of life is 'fun'. When you are having fun, especially, with others, you are all playing together through your interactions in this game called life. Fun is your child-like nature that you forgotten when you were forced into the 'matrix' so-to-speak.

So self gratification is spiritual?

You need to wake up.

The truly spiritual take upon themselves suffering to better the lives of others. This is true from Jesus to Mother Theresa.

History does not record those who seek self gratification (fun) as spiritual. It usually regards them as the polar opposite.

Try again.

reply to post by arpgme

In Hinduism, it's what they call 'Lila".
S&F

reply to post by arpgme

So many people are so "serious" about their spirituality

"don't try so hard"
-Ron Swanson.

"The Buddha said that when one becomes enlightened they'll look up towards the sky and laugh. Laucius (Lao Zi) says that The Way is so simple that it is there and yet people can not see it!"




It seems as though enlightenment affects other species as well.

reply to post by abeverage

Perhaps you have never been poor (to the point where you seriously don't know if you get another meal), and your ideas of a game (other than one of survival) vanish.

Good point. You wanna be happy? I mean truly happy? Then give up everything you own, put on rags and come live under a bridge with me. No comfy bed indoors. No TV. No switch on the wall to light your way. No running hot and cold water at the throw of a handle. No cold box to keep your food fresh in. No car to motor round where you will. No money to fall back on or insurance to fix your broken health. Not a dollar to your name and no prospects.

Come live with me and we'll build a fire, cook some hotdogs and crack a beer on the railroad tracks. As the sun sets and the stars come out, you have nought but a few "companions" to play a guitar and hear the distant sounds of traffic. No door and dead bolt to lock the danger away. Only the reassurance that you are alone, scared and hungry for fulfillment. No road home, no one to depend on. Only longing.

Then and only then will you give up the dependence on worldly security. Then and only then, when you have but nought... then will you reach deep within, and deep without and humbly pray for divine guidance. And when you come to that point you shed the old you and become infilled with a new spirit. A spirit that does not depend on the old way of things, money and self that you used to cherish so much.

Then and only then will you become truly happy. Because you no longer care about all that other crap. It was like lugging a ton of baggage with you that you realize you didn't really need.

PS: Not saying it works for everybody, it just worked for me. Everyone is on their own path to (__________). Those saying we have arrived or achieved anything great are mistaken. This process is never ending. You just reached a new milestone. Chuckle...

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Originally posted by arpgme
The Buddha said that when one becomes enlightened they'll look up towards the sky and laugh. Laucius (Lao Zi) says that The Way is so simple that it is there and yet people can not see it!

Now that I finally get it, I have to agree. It is there and no one sees it! Some people spend there entire lives trying different philosophies and never find it, and yet, every single child and animal know it. This is why they say that IT is "child-like".

It all makes sense now. It is so simple and easy and natural...

Jesus said, "The man old in days will not hesitate to ask a
small child seven days old about the place of life, and he will
live. For many who are first will become last, and they will
become one and the same."

Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are Your disciples like?"
He said, "They are like children who have settled in a field
which is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will
say, 'Let us have back our field.' They (will) undress in their
presence in order to let them have back their field and give it
back to them. Therefore I say to you, if the owner of a house
knows that the thief is coming, he will begin his vigil before he
comes and will not let him into his house of his domain to carry
away his goods. You, then, be on your guard against the world.
Arm yourselves with great strength lest the robbers find a way to
come to you, for the difficulty which you expect will (surely)
materialize. Let there be among you a man of understanding. When
the grain ripened, he came quickly with his sickle in his hand
and reaped it. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."

Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to His disciples,
"These infants being suckled are like those who enter the
Kingdom."
They said to Him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the
Kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you
make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside,
and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the
female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the
female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye,
and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and
a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter [the
Kingdom]."


His disciples said, "When will You become revealed to us and
when shall we see You?"
Jesus said, "When you disrobe without being ashamed and take
up your garments and place them under your feet like little
children and tread on them, then [will you see] the Son of the
Living One, and you will not be afraid"

Jesus said, "Among those born of women, from Adam until John
the Baptist, there is no one so superior to John the Baptist that
his eyes should not be lowered (before him). Yet I have said
whichever one of you comes to be a child will be acquainted with
the Kingdom and will become superior to John."

edit on 12-6-2012 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)

What version is this? It doesn't read like King James (though I haven't picked that up in 10 years)

reply to post by arpgme


...Until someone's idea of fun is killing you.


God, not to be a jerk, but your post is ignorant. You assume universal truth to a non universal mind. Some people are not interested in the same kind of fun you want to have. In fact, some people's idea of fun is in complete opposition to your well being.

Your revelation is little more than a flawed assumption of everyone based off yourself.

Originally posted by abeverage
I get it and like it but...A child in Africa, hell even in America born in to poverty and a harsh life is to think that life is but a game to be played? Perhaps you have never been poor (to the point where you seriously don't know if you get another meal), and your ideas of a game (other than one of survival) vanish.

Perhaps these are the more hardy of our species and take on a serious challenge in the game? Or perhaps living in luxury we see the mundane and wish to play but do not see the struggle for life...

edit on 12-6-2012 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

If you are poor and starving to death, in order to escape your suffering you may try to get 'food' or 'water', but if that doesn't work, and you've already tried everything, and you'll die anyway, what else CAN you do? You might as well have as much fun as you can since you are going anyway.

But, hopefully that being will run into another team-mate who'll help make this game of life a bit easier for them...

Originally posted by PsyMike91
reply to post by arpgme

 

[1] When you finally reach what you believe to be TRUE enlightenment, what evil you do with this knowledge and Self realization?? [2] What is it you seek to gain by going down this path before you? [3] will you help others to gain the knowledge that you've attained, or will you employ your knowledge to maintain a materialistic upperhand upon the current society?? Just Wondering to be honest.

1) I keep it in my awareness.

2) I don't think this is 'changing' my path, it is just making me more aware of the path that I'm already on.

3) I can see into each person's soul into their inner playful nature.

Originally posted by chr0naut
So self gratification is spiritual?

You need to wake up.

There is no 'self' in the definition of fun. It is you who put that division there (between 'self fun' vs 'fun with others').

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by arpgme

 

...Until someone's idea of fun is killing you.


God, not to be a jerk, but your post is ignorant. You assume universal truth to a non universal mind. Some people are not interested in the same kind of fun you want to have. In fact, some people's idea of fun is in complete opposition to your well being.

Your revelation is little more than a flawed assumption of everyone based off yourself.

If your accept the premise that it is all about fun and life is a game, then you also accept the premise that you intend to 'play' (use the term loosely) with all of the people in your life. So it is not just about you having fun, but a shared experience of fun with you and others...

My understanding is that our natural state is free, not fun. Fun is notable when you are not allowed to be free and hold back until the right time = fun

It's all bubble and squeak and then you die. It's nice how you incorporate society into your world view. As evolved as I seem to be, to me, I find myself making it all about "me", and that concept of self just springs into force, so it seems..

... thought forms are tricky

reply to post by arpgme


Basically right on. What gets in people's way is when they think that the way to happiness is through power for themselves at the expense of others - they persist on this path, even when it consistently ruins their lives.

The only reason I have walked the path to darkness is to get a better understanding of it. I almost didn't make it back.

reply to post by arpgme


Yes. And some people have fun making others suffer. Some even consider that a form of love. Some very rare times, two people agree on this, and they actually enjoy each other's suffering.

Your assumptions that play and fun are universally defined are, frankly, false.

Not everyone plays fair.

reply to post by darkbake


And what about if it never ruins their lives. Those things do happen.

Ironic thing about belief is that if just one instance proves it wrong, it is a false belief.

Evil is evil. And on a very rare occasion it has its uses. But to assume that wrong is necessarily the same as evil, such as assuming such wrong will always destroy their lives, a form of evil, then you forget that this is not always true. I give you Dick Cheney for a pretty straight on example. His life is not in ruins, despite having been the spearhead of ruining the lives of millions of others. And his life, if anything, continues to get better. I believe he just got a heart transplant and is currently enjoying lots of money and power.

Originally posted by arpgme

Yes, and there are also so many complicated systems of getting "there". All of these different types of meditations and different levels of "processing" to get to "The Divine".

My friend, Roage, has devised a method of getting "there" (which worked a treat for me as well) which is simple, logical, and repeatable. Well, he didn't devise it really. He just recorded what he was going through and observed the progression of principles, then put that together on his website. He's a computer programmer and has a laser-like logical brain (that had to get exhausted before it did him good).

Here are his videos. Enjoy them!

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by arpgme

 

Yes. And some people have fun making others suffer. Some even consider that a form of love. Some very rare times, two people agree on this, and they actually enjoy each other's suffering.

Your assumptions that play and fun are universally defined are, frankly, false.

Not everyone plays fair.

How is one affected by those who just like causing pain?
Do you know such people, operating freely and effectively in society? (In a family group dues to resentment maybe)

Imagine if you were sensitive enough to catch not only the intent, but the cause too.. in view of a bigger picture? Also if you're able to accept reality as it stands now, without over-thinking or creating complexities that don't fit, you have intelligence working for you. This list goes on. You see people 'trying it on', but they see a voice trying to express something.

Don't mistake the 'political world' with the individual body. They share the same things but they are not the same.

Shadow Herder, is this from the gospel of Thomas? If not, where is it from? Your quote was timely and triggered a lot in me.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Jesus said, "The man old in days will not hesitate to ask a
small child seven days old about the place of life

Because they have so recently left that place. I have seen it. I was granted, back in '89, a memory of my last few seconds there before entering this life, and what I saw there makes it no mystery why babies cry so much. They miss home!

and he will
live. For many who are first will become last, and they will
become one and the same."

because EVERYTHING is one and the same. What prevents you seeing that is DUALITY (more on that later)

So what did I see in '89? I saw something like this:

Wikipedia image:



except the structure was made entirely of living light. In the center was what looked like a sun, but maybe was more like a sphere of that living light, with the addition that it radiated pure love. Also, at each node of the structure around, was a point of consciousness, the lines being the connection between them, and it was a place of a "whispered shout" (yes, like Robert Plant sings of in "Immigrant Song") which is pure exaltation, worship (minus the groveling aspect of what passes for worship these days), adoration, ecstasy, excitement, and genuine love. Between the structure and the sphere in the center (which took up a good 30% or more of the diameter of the whole structure) were flying angels, which looked a bit like the ones that came out of the ark in "Raiders of the Lost Ark", but not scary in any way. They were simply beautiful, and were, like, swimming in the atmosphere of pure love. Then, a couple of things happened and I was expelled into this life. For many years I thought it was a punishment, but I came to understand that I came here to share that light.

Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are Your disciples like?"
He said, "They are like children who have settled in a field
which is not theirs. When the owners of the field come

Annunaki

, they will
say, 'Let us have back our field.' The [disciples] (will) undress

unsheath their glorious true selves

in their
presence in order to let them have back their field and give it
back to them.
[...]
You, then, be on your guard against the world.
Arm yourselves with great strength

Know the truth, be free. Disentangle yourselves from the delusions of this world (corporations, governments, culture, taboos, "morality", judgmentalism)

lest the robbers find a way to
come to you, for the difficulty which you expect will (surely)
materialize. Let there be among you a man of understanding. When
the grain ripened, he came quickly with his sickle in his hand
and reaped it.

I reckon this means when you make your stand in truth, it may well cost your life in this world.

Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."

Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to His disciples,
"These infants being suckled are like those who enter the
Kingdom."
They said to Him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the
Kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one,

eschew duality for Unity

and when you
make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside,

realize that the "place of life" mentioned above is one with the life we lead here "outside" it.

and the above like the below

cease from judging

, and when you make the male and the
female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the
female female;

when you stop identifying with your body

and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye,
and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and
a likeness in place of a likeness;

when you recognize the body is simply a likeness to something REAL and transcendent.

then will you enter [the
Kingdom]."


His disciples said, "When will You become revealed to us and
when shall we see You?"
Jesus said, "When you disrobe without being ashamed and take
up your garments and place them under your feet like little
children and tread on them, then [will you see] the Son of the
Living One, and you will not be afraid"

to me this refers to the "unclothing" in the field mentioned above. A type of physical death, perhaps; a shedding of a coccoon.

Jesus said, "Among those born of women, from Adam until John
the Baptist, there is no one so superior to John the Baptist that
his eyes should not be lowered (before him). Yet I have said
whichever one of you comes to be a child will be acquainted with
the Kingdom and will become superior to John."

edit on 12-6-2012 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)

Thank you for sharing that. In Lak'ech ala K'in

reply to post by arpgme


As a buddhist myself I understand what your getting at, but don't pigion hole yourself, your current view of enlightenment will evolve.
I believe your absolutely right about the "child-like" view that most tend to forget as we get older. Another example that will make you laugh as soon as you start seeing it, is that the majority of us have a problem with saying "I don't know," like some how knowing all the the answers off hand is the key to a greater reward.
I might have to break your heart, but the enlightenment you found isn't the real deal. Heres a guess to explain what I mean... Your preforming Zazen, (or focused meditation) You finally stoped those floating thoughts from seeping into your line of vision and distracting you. The complete removal of your ego/ self/ or anthing beyond the present point, gave you this rush of a lightning bolt. The thing is, what you really just found was meditation. Your not fighting with your mind to turn off, your not focusing on your breath, your in the moment. Existing, but not. Living on the fraction of a second. Once you've experienced that, it is an amazing feeling.
So the understanding you gained is good/ great even, and you should be proud of being able to see it with your own eyes, and I really hope you reached that through meditation, becouse if you haven't then it's like reading about a place you want to visit, but not accually steping foot there. It's a whole different thing entirally, and I'd hope you get your sitting on, becouse it's totally worth it. But don't think this is the end understanding, and also don't forget the four noble truths are there for a reason.

I'm also commenting on this becouse I too came to this exact understanding a few years ago. At the time it all made perfect rational reasoning in my mind, and I still do my best to incorporate it in my every day. Since then though I've been studying Zen and works from teachers on the concept of how life itself is Enlightenment. I personally found a problem with the Child-like wonderment being the great answer. My reason is that it's hyper simplifys the complexitys of well... everything. As humans we strive to understand and learn, we are creative, and we theorize. We build upon the work of others and we grow by discussions and arguments. We experience pain, heart break, fear compation and a cluster of others that make up existance, and the whole of life. A child-like view should relate in it's most simple form, but it really dosn't when you think of what it all means as a complex whole. It just seems to leave out everything that makes having a brain or existance worth anything. There has to be more, and as I've personaly discovered there is. You'll see it for yourself along your path.

BTW I'm no teacher, so don't take anything of what I'm saying as absolute truth, I'm just a student. So, on that I really hope you take your spirital journey deeper and see where it takes you.
-Cheers

Originally posted by abeverage
I get it and like it but...A child in Africa, hell even in America born in to poverty and a harsh life is to think that life is but a game to be played? Perhaps you have never been poor (to the point where you seriously don't know if you get another meal), and your ideas of a game (other than one of survival) vanish.

Valid objection. Addressed with: All beings are God-beings, and therefore have their own goals to accomplish in this "simulation", let's call it. Who are you to look at another's sacred suffering and say it's worse than what you have? Do you wish to "reach down" to them to "help" them? They already have the full dignity of being a God-child. What can you, with your duality-clouded judgment, have to offer them? The experience matrix is so intricate and interwoven that all is taken care of. Some come here to die at six months' age of starvation. The joy of returning to the "place of life" mentioned in Shadow Herder's post above, will make the agony of those six short months seem like a small price to pay. My several NDEs (and those of many other people) back this up. You won't see the forest when you're looking at one needle on one pine tree. We all chose to be here. Even the starving baby. And we all chose the type of experience we were to have. To say the baby didn't is to claw its Godlike dignity and power from it and toss it aside to scream "LOOK! A VICTIM!". Ego LOVES drama and victimhood!

Perhaps these are the more hardy of our species and take on a serious challenge in the game? Or perhaps living in luxury we see the mundane and wish to play but do not see the struggle for life...

edit on 12-6-2012 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

ETA: No condescension intended by the "duality-clouded judgment" remark. It was meant to shock a bit. Just doing my duty!