True Freedom: What's Your Price?

I believe the OP is saying that reality itself is either superdeterministic (once the choice is made it can't have been any other way), of, if freedom is even possible, that it (reality) presents itself to us, as an endless variety of choices, each of which requires that everything else that isn't chosen, is lost, and he's asking us, what would you be prepared to give up, to be TRULY free or absolutely free?

It's a very very interesting question and proposition.

To either be forced to give up everything, just to have something, or if giving up any one thing in particular, to have be or do another, what's the price or the cost, to have that as a free choice.

I say nothing. The universe itself is the ultimate free lunch and absolute freedom is our already always state of being, nothing embues it or grants it, and nothing can take it away, or act as a constraint upon it, in TRUTH, which is the knowledge of experience, the qualia of our very existence as a human being. In truth, we are probably more free than we can even at this moment in history, begin to fathom. Because if free to a degree, then since freedom by it's very nature is an all or nothing proposition, free the whole way.

Non judgement, prior non judgement, is prior freedom, it's in our humor and our mirth as our experience of freedom, and it exists prior to choice as a prior freedom, in the domain of which we don't even HAVE to choose anything in particular, while waiting to choose something better.

So what would I give up.

Time.

Quality over quantity.

And to be free in this way is to be set free in eternity, so you get the immortality part of it as an added bonus, and an even further added sense of mirth and charm.

Time therefore is what kills freedom, even death kills it by serving as a time constraint upon our life.

While freedom, hope, faith, love, it's both who we are and timeless. I'll take that Alex, for 10,000 (at least!).

aditional pondering...


Absolute Freedom, if there is such a thing, would have to involve absolute uncertainty with equanimity, and absolute absurdity en.wikipedia.org...

You'd laugh out loud, for a while, over nothing in particular, if you were absolutely free, in truth.

In short you'd be locked up in a mental ward, for having the audacity to proclaim your eternal freedom.

So to TIME, I would add to that, my SANITY (by anyone or everyone else's standard).

And hey, sometimes every now and again you DO have to lose your sanity (by anyone or everyone else's standard), to go into sanity or "normalcy" again (which is really only to lose your mind in another way), although you might have a hard time getting rid of that sheepish grin of inner knowledge and experience, so that I wouldn't give up, and if need be, I'd be happy in the mental ward.



Freedom is a state of mind.

It's a state of laughter I do believe.

Absolute hilarity - that's Freedom, TRUE Freedom.

It's the joke that just keeps on getting better, at the expense of our ignorance or lack of awareness and comprehension, so we've got to throw those onto the pile of unwanted things, jetisoned and discarded for the sake of freedom, our prior stupidity as to our SELF imposed lack of true freedom. It's both scary and funny both, at the same time, but only in the light of the awareness of understanding which is the domain of freedom, as a form of self awareness or self knowledge, since we cannot be absolutely free to choose without awareness, that's not freedom either.

The Price?

Time
Sanity
Stupidity (ignorance)

Those are the three things I'd have to give up, to be TRULY Free in the truth that sets us free in eternity now and forever... amen.

Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by Open2Truth


Because the only true change is in your mind.

That's the beauty and the curse of true freedom. The world never changes...but you do. And you cannot force the world to change.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You understand what I'm saying then.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


This is EXACTLY the question I am posing. Everyone wants something, but every action has a consequence, and with every consequence, something is lost...to never again be reclaimed.

No one understands that everything has a price...even freedom itself. They claim it is their right, when in reality (quite literally, the fabric of reality) their supposed "right" would result in their destruction, because what they want...doesn't exist.

They don't truly understand what they want.

reply to post by Starchild23


The best and most effective thing to want is nothing.
Nothing is freedom from everything.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


That is actually one of the wisest things anyone has ever posted on my threads...

I agree with you completely. Unfortunately, that isn't possible for a nation that has been conditioned to take, take, take, in order to keep afloat the system that guarded us while we were maturing.

reply to post by Starchild23


Do you want freedom for them? Or freedom for you?
If you want freedom for them then you are wanting something and not nothing.
You have to want nothing, be nothing, just be here and now not wanting something.

When you can know yourself without things you will see that you are free.

My life,ego and this reality are trivial to the order of things.Does that answer your question?

reply to post by cavtrooper7


How are they trivial?

No, that does not answer my question, besides saying that you don't care. It explains what, not why nor how.

reply to post by Starchild23


when i was a young man i was as free as i would ever be, there were no consequences to my actions i had no one to answer to and had nothing to lose. As i grew older i made relationships that truly mattered to me and that is when my freedom began to slip away; but it was my own choice. i would let people do things to me say things to me that as a young man i would not have put up with all to make sure that those relationships that truly mattered to me were safe. I always thought Janis Joplin said it best " freedom just another word for nothing else to lose" as we grow older we fear what we can lose and give up certain freedoms

reply to post by jed001


A change of perspective will change what makes you happy.

When you learn to be happy with having nothing, having something will make you more so.

reply to post by Starchild23

to me true freedom almost feels selfish. its hard to think of others when you are concerned with your own freedoms

reply to post by Starchild23

Somewhere between 1 and priceless

Originally posted by Open2Truth
reply to post by Starchild23

 

Why is true freedom only when it is without consequence?

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction? Karma? I'll just stop there.

edit on 5/22/2012 by Open2Truth because: (no reason given)

what if you don't believe in karma? I am still trying to make up for all of my poor choices as a young man. But, some people believe there is no afterlife ( i did not say heaven) so there are no consequences for their actions, no karma

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Starchild23

 

I did not choose freedom, I chose slavery to Truth. I do not wish for freedom. But this was my free choice.

edit on 22-5-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

what is truth ...... your truth, may not be my truth, or the truth

reply to post by Starchild23


I'm freely, blissfully ignorant.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

This is EXACTLY the question I am posing. Everyone wants something, but every action has a consequence, and with every consequence, something is lost...to never again be reclaimed.

No one understands that everything has a price...even freedom itself. They claim it is their right, when in reality (quite literally, the fabric of reality) their supposed "right" would result in their destruction, because what they want...doesn't exist.

They don't truly understand what they want.

Oh no it exists, but the consequences in terms of what would be lost re: time, sanity, stupidity, are just to great to overcome, and we cannot enter into the domain of absolute liberation/freedom, from the tunnel of subjective experience, because we are already mired in all the choices and value judgements that we hold, so we're closed to the possibility of absolute freedom, and even if it were available, we are not willing to pay the price to have it, at risk of being lost both to ourselves and our fellow man. Such a thing, to pay such a price for the sake of freedom would or could mean having to give up everything, even our attachment to life itself, to time, causation, sanity (what others might think), and then to all our cherished beliefs and judgements or "reality filters". It might also represent the very dissolution of self itself. It's just too scary both to choose and to pay the required price to have.


"The kingdom of heaven is like a wise merchant, who, after travelling the whole world over in search of a fine pearl at last finds it, and in finding it, sells everything he owns to have that pearl."

It (freedom) exists, and it's gettable, but you're right, for almost all of us, the price required is just too great, but then again... if you ever found it..! Hmph, interesting. That Jesus he was a very smart cookie. Too bad it's taken us 2000 years to understand what he was talking about!

Maybe reality as it presents itself to us, as active participants and choosers in it, whether we like it or not, is semi-superdeterministic, meaning that while the domain of absolute freedom is at least available to us as a possibility ie: the future is open, nevertheless we remain cut off from it because we're trapped in an unchangable past. In other words we can't get there from here, unless the karmic (causal) debt of all past choices were somehow PAID from the POV of a higher standard of truth and justice, apart from ourselves.

It could very well be that we eventually and inevitably tend to imprison ourselves within a self-constraining domain of bondage (in chains) and slavery (attachment), according to karmic law, combined with an unhealthy dose of common human stupidity. In such a case, one may be forced to wonder, at the utter absurdity and impossibility of their predicament in recognition of the fact that there is no way "out" nor is there any way of liberating ourselves, from the POV of a higher standard of truth and justice apart from ourselves, or in other words that we, by our own human resources and from within our own subjective experience and interpretations are utterly incapable of engineering our own "salvation" so to speak. But this state of imprisonment (with awareness), is simply where the supreme JOKE (and the release from all such bondage) begins!

This (absolute freedom) also raises the question of a satisfying and just judgement, yet without of course having to pay the price ourselves, for our own shortcomings and past mistakes, and how could we? We wouldn't know with absolute certainty precisely where that price begins and ends, and we'd probably "settle" anyway and thus compromise perfect justice. Absolute freedom is nothing if it is not also Just, and yet... if the height of justice were mercy, and forgiveness (non-judgement) provided it were to make NO COMPROMISE with all the rest of the nonsense (sin), then the standard was/IS set AND the price PAID for us in full, and, if that weren't enough already, paid in such a manner that we, in spite of ourselves, and all our bad choices/karmic debt, are assigned an infinite value, of infinite significance and proportion, since the domain of absolute freedom is timeless, spaceless, and based squarely in reality as it really and truly is.

The price? Justice realized.

The reward? True (authentic) Freedom.


"Set free for the sake of freedom - to freely love as we are loved."
~ Saul of Tarsus, turned Paul the desciple of Christ.

Therefore - I proclaim our freedom, not just as an ethereal possibility, but as an actuality recorded in time and history for all time and for all people.

The question then posed is - who has the courage and the audacity to freely recieve the immense gift of incalculable value that is at the same time unearned/undeserved, yet freely given? And who has the imagination to grasp the significance of it? Who can set aside their own contemptuous bias towards all things "religious" long enough to fully "grok" it? And once understood, who would refuse it? That's the funny part, that it's just too good to be true, but is, once grasped, once owned, like a prescious pearl.

So in the final analysis, while it's true that absolute freedom, true freedom, carries with it a price to be paid, the "free lunch" I mentioned earlier is still free, but for yesterday, today, and tomorrow, lunch is on the Lord Jesus Christ, and best of all, it's an all-you-can-eat buffet!

Originally posted by jed001

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Starchild23

 

I did not choose freedom, I chose slavery to Truth. I do not wish for freedom. But this was my free choice.

edit on 22-5-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

what is truth ...... your truth, may not be my truth, or the truth

it is Truth to me, and in my opinion this is all that matters. I do not need to speak on what I believe it is or is not, if you are seeking Trtuth I am sure you will find it.