There Are LOADS Of Jobs Out There, But NONE Of Them Pay Living Wages!

1. Middle class is a statistical concept. It doesn't exist in real life. It's also a concept based on a very, very bad tax code, itself based on the idea of absolute value [i.e. disregarding inflation].

2. No one's forcing you to compete for resources. Do as you wish, but know this: you aren't entitled to your competitor's/neighbor's energy, time, OR money. If the alternative to work [charity] hurts your ego, then your problem is psychological. That's between you and your priorities.

3. Everything DOES reduce to personal responsibility and personal responsibility reduces to the problem of knowledge. You want more options? Get smarter.

4. Favoring exertion to complain rather than address problems 1-3 is the definition of lazy. Yes, you are lazy. I don't care if you don't like being called that, nor do I care if it offends you. A clear comprehension of thermodynamics, or social thermodynamics [economics], would evaporate all of the ignorance expressed in posts like this.

Hey Mods? You should kill this thread out the respect for the HUNDREDS of thousands of un employed-and-looking. Many of them regular contributors to ATS.

The OP is deluded...and out of touch with reality.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


I don't think that it's the people not wanting change, it's just some or most are not even aware that it's possible or afraid of it. When people lose hope, they lose more than that. Divide and conquer, not united we fall...

All you have to do, is to try and see it from the rich mans eye.

Here's an exmple

A factory in west, costs N € per hour. This is the running costs. If it's put up in the eastern block, it costs N/2 €. If it's put up in Asia, it costs about N/4 €.

Previously shipping costs would be enormous, from the East to west ... but it's not merely wages that are high, it's also transport cost is high. So transport "within" the west, is equivalent to transport from the east.

Second, when you pay wages to a person in Europe you have to pay 50/50 to the individual and to the government. Which is quite expensive of course. Now, assuming that you have to pay about 26% taxes from what you make, from a business ... that means, that you'll save about 50 percent, by letting people off.

Now, seen from the entire "system" perspective ... it's like this. If a person get's salare X, then the government gets about 30 percent of that salary from the individual, and another equivalent amount from the company. It amounts to about 50 percent of the salary. This demands transportation systems, health care systems, etc., as people go to work it requires a lot of other systems to be "better" functional than otherwise. The streets must be taken care off better, as the tearoff factor is greater ... iwhat it means is this, more people in employment means greater transition, and that means that offical or public infrastructure must be greater, with greater transportation, as an example. This means, that you can in fact cut this amount in half, to about 25% to being actual tax money coming into the box office of the government.

Now, you can run the numbers again ... the government gets at most 50 percent from the tax payer, with increased cost factor, marginalizing this down to about 25 percent. (think lesser income from companies, and increased public employment costs). Or it can get 26 percent, that can go up to about 40 percent with increasing income tax from companies, that start at 26 percent.

What it amounts to, is that people running the government office and public employees will see two curves that will have a common point. On one side, you have a factor which will give the government good amount of money but decrease, with increasing labour factor. Or decrease labour factor, and increase income.

Since the government is being increasingly run as a company, unemployment is actually profitable. Seen from a national point of view, if your country gets in $1 billion, then the "rich" people can decide wether to pay "minimal" salaries (through government securities) and increase their "capital" or pay you "more" and decrease theirs. In fact, the government being run increasingly as a company sees this the same way ... and in this case, it's against you the individual tax payer, and it's a profit organisation for the rich.

Which is basically why the saying goes "The rich get rich, and the poor get poor" ...

Originally posted by buster2010
The banks and the elite in no way wants to pay people livable wages. If people were getting these wages then they wouldn't need credit as much because they would have the cash to pay for things.

People with living wages use credit extensively (and get mortgages, auto loans, etc.). They probably use it more than people with unliving wages, because they qualify for larger lines and get more attractive rates. Those who don't make a lot of money tend to avoid credit and use debit, which is what the banks want--no risk of big defaults, less legal compulsion to refund money lost to fraud, and have you seen some of those overdraft fees?

People who make much more than living wages use also credit (and buy bigger houses and nicer cars). Do you think the JP Morgan Palladium Card or the AmEx Centurion exist to trap the lower-income strata in debt? They exist because you can make a lot of money when a multi-millionnaire carries your card.

2 words for the near future : resource pooling.

There used to be a time when families lived in the house for extended periods of their lives or forever. Kids didnt move out at 18 with a new car and a job at McDonalds or go to college with mom and dad footing the bill and paying for Jrs lifestyle . Resources were pooled and the family unit survived and sometimes thrived. You can do this with friends and like minded individuals. There is no need to suffer if you change your paradigm a little and insist on thriviing in your life and not just surviving. There are many benefits to resource pooling with family and friends. Youre little tribe provides not only money but skills, security, etc. We have an almost 3K sq foot home with 5 bedrooms and space for more bedrooms and bathrooms... guess what we're planning? not just to survive.. but to thrive in these unstable times.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

People with living wages use credit extensively (and get mortgages, auto loans, etc.). They probably use it more than people with unliving wages, because they qualify for larger lines and get more attractive rates. .

But you didn't take in the "risk" factor, did you ... huh.

People with "lot of money", even if few ... will save their money ... in the bank.

Lot of peole, with "good salaries" will live above their income rate, and thus the bank can lend out money to the poor from the rich mans pocket, by demanding interrest rates. But this group of people are a risk factor, and it's not profitable for the bank. Or didn't you realize, that the money was flowing "out" of the bank, in creater numbers than it was flowing "in". Does the loan rate of 10:1 mean anything to you?

Lending money out to the middle class, is a risk factor for the bank and those with money. This should be obvious, even to a child. Which is why "the rich" want to get rid of the "middle class".

It's always been the agenda.

This isn't a complicated picture, it's what happens in every society in the history of mankind.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


That's right. They are high-stress, low paying jobs. One company in our town hired another out-sourcing company to hire people, so they wouldn't have to.

We've got bosses "pinging" us all the time, not paying us to keep up with the demands of the job/ever-changing program and keeping us from the other company's healthy cafeteria. It's the caste-system come to America.

If people were smart they'd organize. It's a shame that the corporations see people as expendable.

Originally posted by Thunder heart woman
I will agree that there are jobs that do not pay living wages. BUT what are we supposed to do then? Live on welfare? I'm sorry but welfare is not a lifestyle choice for me, and my parents did not raise me up to just take and take and sit on my behind. I'd rather dig ditches than sit on my duff and take my monthly check. I will work as long as I can, and I have multiple sclerosis and a heart condition. I cannot abide laziness. Welfare is a hand UP, not a lifestyle.

Yes...but you should be grateful that you are still eligible to be hired as a ditch-digger. Once you reach a certain point in your career & education you are deemed "overqualified" for far too many positions.

This myth that all the unemployed people could just go back to work if they lowered their expectations is just that...a myth. Nobody is going to hire a psychologist, mba, or a industrial engineer to dig a ditch, work at burger king, or sweep floors.

Furthermore these people can't even lie on their resume's/applications and try to PRETEND to be stupid. The background check will uncover that they hardworking, intelligent, individuals and then they'll NEVER be able to get a job.

Originally posted by imherejusttoread
1. Middle class is a statistical concept. It doesn't exist in real life. It's also a concept based on a very, very bad tax code, itself based on the idea of absolute value [i.e. disregarding inflation].

2. No one's forcing you to compete for resources. Do as you wish, but know this: you aren't entitled to your competitor's/neighbor's energy, time, OR money. If the alternative to work [charity] hurts your ego, then your problem is psychological. That's between you and your priorities.

3. Everything DOES reduce to personal responsibility and personal responsibility reduces to the problem of knowledge. You want more options? Get smarter.

4. Favoring exertion to complain rather than address problems 1-3 is the definition of lazy. Yes, you are lazy. I don't care if you don't like being called that, nor do I care if it offends you. A clear comprehension of thermodynamics, or social thermodynamics [economics], would evaporate all of the ignorance expressed in posts like this.

Your post is entirely meaningless, the systems are being run by people who make it an issue to use YOUR energy...personal responsibility has nothing to do with laziness either...LOL@ social thermodynamics, it could take hours of explaining to you that economics is a matter of BS...and control over others...so i gather you are saying become a hunter, and screw everyone else !!

I know that I am never ever going to do another writing contest for ATS now. I am still kicking myself for sharing this June's writing contest storystory, because of T&C's You know the part that it is now their property. I think it was one of the best writings I have done and I have enough to make it a novel, but now I can never go out and try to get it published. What a waste. I wish I would have thought of this sooner. Maybe I'd have saved that entry as my own and made a different entry to the contest instead.
Some day I will make money off of my writing.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Hey Mods? You should kill this thread out the respect for the HUNDREDS of thousands of un employed-and-looking. Many of them regular contributors to ATS.

The OP is deluded...and out of touch with reality.

No. Censorship is unacceptable.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
This is a rebuttal to the 'other' thread espousing the wonders of a plentiful job market. Everything is okay because we can all just be creative and invent our jobs. It's that easy!

If all else fails just work 3 jobs and you'll be okay!

The problem is that the middle class is shrinking and allot of jobless people have worked for their degrees or invested blood sweat and tears in their trades and they're not going to settle for McDonalds. Most people aren't just trying to survive, they are trying to live, and perhaps have a chance at 'thriving.' If the job can't even meet basic needs, what's the point?

Sure you can start a business and watch it become successful, but the odds are it will not. You can try to invent something, but most likely it's been done, and the odds are it won't work out. Entrepreneurship is a risky business, and with limited resources, it's not worth it. With no source of income, you can't just keep trying to start a business and have it fail or you'll be on the street quick.

Reinventing yourself is another option, but again, not everyone can reinvent themselves so easily. Where is your source of income while you reinvent yourself? This is assuming you reinvent yourself and can find a job, then find yourself at the entry level again. Just because one person can do it and relate their positive anecdotal account does not mean it can be replicated by others. If it's that easy we wouldn't have a problem.

There's something bigger that needs to be addressed like outsourcing work and exporting jobs overseas. Something bigger like Mitt Romney coming in and laying off thousand of people so he can make his investors a nice profit. Something bigger like The Fed, debt, and economic bubbles that burst when the plutocrats play dice with our economy. Something bigger like the fraud, waste and abuse of our system.

So while you claim everything goes back to personal responsibility, you are ignoring economic factors that are putting hard working people on the streets and then mocking them because it worked out for you.

But of course, they must be lazy if it didn't work out for them!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...............WRONG

Freakin take a low paying job and move in with a family member. Simple as that.
The world degrades the word family and it doesnt exist anymore.

4 COMBINED low wage jobs will work. Pay for your own food and just help pay the bills to the house.
DOESNT take a freakin rocket scientist

Originally posted by Submarines
I personally jungle 5 jobs. This also allows my wife to be a stay at home mom.
We have money to put away, pay for all our bills, and health insurance. We eat well, AND have a social life.

You lazy a$$ people need to suck it up and go to work and quit complaining!

So all the jobs are in the jungle, then?

Wages are a big problem. Some don't understand that when you spend all your time making subsistence type wages, or less, it becomes very hard to escape from that. Some people don't have families, or don't have families they can depend on, that will help them.

My husband's father left him when he was 6 weeks old. He's wealthy and never helped my husband or his sister, AT ALL. Period, end of story. He has 2 other children now that he spoils rotten. They exist, first set don't, in his mind.

My own dad makes Scrooge look generous. That's all we have - and what is that?

When it happens to them - when they lose THEIR job or have their wages cut, then they will understand better.
Some probably never will understand, but I wonder about those people anyway.

I know, in a perfect worldit would be nice to work one job and have plenty of money but that's never been how it was.
There was a few times in my life where I had to work 2 and sometimes 3 jobs to get by. It's the way it is and always has been.

People today just don't want to do it because they don't think they should have to.

You do what you have to to get by. I got divorced and raised my 2 kids by myself and had to work multiple jobs to do it for a few years. Quality time suffered with the kids but they were fed and had the necessities.
It was because I had a baseline education and couldn't do any better for us then. I bettered myself and was able to work hard and get myself into a position where I can work one job and I do really well now.

Work hard, better yourself, keep stepping up, don't believe your "entitled" to something your not and you can work yourself into a better life. It's all on you.

reply to post by Daedal

I don't think that it's the people not wanting change, it's just some or most are not even aware that it's possible or afraid of it.

That's exactly what I said...

When people lose hope, they lose more than that. Divide and conquer, not united we fall...

You have me there... but I've put so much effort and time into creating the foundations for change... I've held onto my hope for so long, I've put so much faith into people only to have it all thrown right back in my face time after time again. I am simply tired... I grow tired of trying to help those who refuse to help themselves. My last strands of hope are only barely holding together.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Hey Mods? You should kill this thread out the respect for the HUNDREDS of thousands of un employed-and-looking. Many of them regular contributors to ATS.

The OP is deluded...and out of touch with reality.

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

Just because YOU disagree doesn't make YOUR opinion the right one.
22,000 jobs in Detroit say other wise. Plus doesn't it defeat the purpose to be out of a FREAKIN JOB but have INTERNET STILL? OH FREAKIN CRAP HOLE OF THE DONKEY'S FACE. GROW UP! Don't argue with me that the population is more than 22,000. I dont care! That is 22,000 people who can have a job. Most American's CANNOT justify not having a job.

Stop complaining about having no money. ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL OF YOU RIGHT NOOOOOOOOOOOOW! If you have a cell phone, internet, TV. You are not hurting for money. And DON'T anyone of you tell me that people need to the internet to apply to jobs. NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE!

Use the library! You say "How is that person going to get there without money for gas or a car?" Bus maybe? A friend maybe? Hell if you freaking want a job that damn bad...that PERSON will WALK. For crap and giggles...ask your neighbor to use their internet also.

Get the point? Anybody who argues with any of that. You are lazy and self-centered, then on top of that don't want a job.

When I got laid off from my previous job in January 2010, I was earning $18/hour as an Admininstrative Assistant at a small HVAC company. The president, a very generous woman who had done all she could to keep everyone there finally had to lay off the least needed people. I spent two years applying for jobs and here is what I noticed. In those two years, I got phone calls for an interview three times, despite a very experienced resume. At the beginning of my job search, the advertised rate for an admin would be on average $16-$20/hour. Now two years later, these exact same jobs are being listed for $9-$10/hour. This is San Diego, CA. Gas is nearly $5/gallon. Food prices are out of control! A box of cereal and gallon of milk would cost an hour of work (before taxes of course). What really pisses me off, is when you read a job description like this:

"OFFICE ROCK STAR NEEDED!
Must be super friendly, reliable, and available anytime of the week from 7am til 9pm. Must be a JACK or JILL OF ALL TRADES! Your duties include supporting the CEO, President, Vice President, a 40 person office, meetings, luncheons, payroll experience needed, human resource experience a must.
Bachelor's Degree or above.
This is a temp-to-hire job! Starting pay $10 with room for advancement! Job is part time with chance for full after 6 months."


And no, I am not making this up. This is a typical job description.
Housing here can cost around $1000+ just for a one bedroom. I have 2 kids. Before being laid off, I was living with my brother, mom, husband, and 2 kids in a 5 bedroom house as we all pooled incomes. Unfortunately my landlord was foreclosed on and we had to split houses since I no longer had income above unemployment.
Thankfully, my husband is highly educated and debt-free. He works R&D for a biotech company, and also teaches classes for a backup job. He understands the games banks play and exactly how money and debt works and actually gets money FROM credit card companies by choosing those cards that give you cash back, then using the cards to make his purchases, and paying the cards before they accrue any interest. In the end, they have to send him a check for a percentage of the purchases he made on the card. We do not buy what we cannot afford, and I am a stay at home mom. We live modestly and stay out of debt above all else.
Of course, I spent years struggling before I met him, having to work two jobs to support my kids and mom. I would still be struggling had I not met him. Unfortunately that is not the case of most people. They do not have an out to their situation, or a family member to help and they get deeper and deeper in the mire.
My own brother had a heart attack at the age of 34 due to previously undiagnosed cardiac sarcoidosis. Despite all his struggles, plus being laid off his long term job, he still tries to avoid government help. I keep telling him to go get food stamps and such..and stop worrying about it! He paid into the system as he has been employed since before he was even 16. No need to feel guilty!

Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by ZindoDoone

 

Carefull! Might wanna check your not victim to a conspiracy being laid off that many times!

We recently found out 4000 construction workers had been blacklisted from our major companies over here for being part of a union!! LOL anyone who exercises their rights are automatic terrorists now!

NWO is a scary aspect indeed.

Blacklisted by whom? Construction companies don't have to hire people based on orders from the government, they hire who they want. If they don't want to hire people because they are in a union (and is there any fact to that?) then it's a construction company question to answer, not a government one.