Is The Bible Real?

reply to post by randyvs

If Adam and Eve were not the first ? When even science, in it's studies of mitochondrial DNA, concurs that all mankind can be traced back to just one mother ? How do you know that God didn't name her Eve and her mate Adam ?

True, we all have a single common matrilineal ancestor. That neither makes her the first or the only Homo sapiens female that was around at the time.

One of the misconceptions of mitochondrial Eve is that since all women alive today descended in a direct unbroken female line from her that she was the only woman alive at the time. Nuclear DNA studies indicate that the size of the ancient human population never dropped below tens of thousands. Other women alive at Eve's time have descendants alive today, but sometime in the past, each of their lines of descent included at least one male, thereby breaking the mitochondrial DNA lines of descent. By contrast, Eve's lines of descent to each person alive today includes precisely one purely matrilineal line.

Wikipedia

And Mitochondrial Eve and our patrilineal MRCA didn't exist at the same time.

Sometimes mitochondrial Eve is assumed to have lived at the same time as Y-chromosomal Adam, perhaps even meeting and mating with him. Like mitochondrial "Eve", Y-chromosomal "Adam" probably lived in Africa; however, this "Eve" lived much earlier than this "Adam" – perhaps some 50,000 to 80,000 years earlier.

Ibid.

reply to post by iterationzero

True, we all have a single common matrilineal ancestor. That neither makes her the first or the only Homo sapiens female that was around at the time.

Around what time Zero ? How does it mean there was never a time when there wasn't just one ?

Sometimes mitochondrial Eve is assumed to have lived at the same time as Y-chromosomal Adam, perhaps even meeting and mating with him. Like mitochondrial "Eve", Y-chromosomal "Adam" probably lived in Africa; however, this "Eve" lived much earlier than this "Adam" – perhaps some 50,000 to 80,000 years earlier.

I find it hard to believe anyone can know this and it's more unbelievable the more I think about it ? Sounds like BS. No matter the source.

reply to post by randyvs

I posted the relevant part of the information presented at the link. If you want more detail beyond that, read the information I linked to.

reply to post by iterationzero


OOPs didn't notice the link. Sorry I just woke up. But does it give us a time. ?

Wait Wiki ? Holy crap why should I bother ?

You're not even right stud !

In fact the very question, " Is the Bible for real ? " is completely assinine . Are you for real ?

reply to post by randyvs

OOPs didn't notice the link. Sorry I just woke up. But does it give us a time. ?

Actually, it does.

Wait Wiki ? Holy crap why should I bother ?

Because the article I linked actually includes citations and references. Disregarding information that's in Wikipedia just because it's in Wikipedia without actually reading it and judging it based on where the information originally came from would be tantamount to disregarding information in the Bible just because it's in the Bible, no?

You're not even right stud !

Again, review the citations at your leisure.

In fact the very question, " Is the Bible for real ? " is completely assinine . Are you for real ?

I'm not the one that asked the question or posted the OP. That would be Starchild23. I was simply referencing the common misunderstandings surrounding Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam. No need to be defensive.

reply to post by iterationzero

I'm not the one that asked the question or posted the OP. That would be Starchild23. I was simply referencing the common misunderstandings surrounding Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam. No need to be defensive.

I realize where the OP came from and I wasn't being all," defensive ". Just making a comparison with the question,
" are you for real ? " Not necessarily directed at anyone in particular. I know it wasn't that clear. Apologies.

So I assume that by all this science is skating around what the Bible says. That at one time there was only one man and one woman on earth ? Is that really so impossible according to science? Or is it that science has thousands of us all emerging like some virus all at the same time ?

reply to post by randyvs

The answers to your question about what the science says are in the link I provided and the citations and references given there. I can keep cutting and pasting the same information from that source each time you ask me the same question, or you can read it yourself. If you don't see how what the science says differs from a literal account in Genesis then I really don't know what more I can add.

reply to post by iterationzero


I'm not gonna bother zero. You know for yourself, I would never trade off, what God has quite possibly said. For anything man has most definitely said.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Starchild23

 

Good question there, Starchild. Is it real? As in tangible, or as in truth? Tangible yes, all true, no. Like you said, it was not faxed down from God him/herself. It is, however, the works of MAN, translated by MAN, edited by MAN, for an agenda of MAN.

That Agenda would be control of a people from a platform of faith alone.

Autowrench you ROCK!! An Agenda to control, aren't all religions?

Originally posted by OpenEars123


I Jesus is so AMAZING, where is he right now whilst these babies are being raped and tortured? (Yes I mean now, real time) This is one example of MILLIONS of terrible things that happen AS WE SPEAK - Yes, in REAL TIME)
The list is endless, Period, enough said.

edit on 10-5-2012 by OpenEars123 because: (no reason given)

loll maby if you actually took some time to read IT you would possibly understand why these type of things are in the world and happen every day as we speak. Open your eyes.

Unfortunately, some people still need to be enslaved by the bible. I've actaully seen people say disgusting things like "If the bible isn't true, then we can just kill people".

reply to post by DominusIlluminatioMea


I have read it thank you. Nothing, I mean NOTHING can justify so much torture and death on young innocents.. Why don't you open YOUR eyes?

reply to post by arpgme


The bible does not say you can not kill - it says you can not murder. (but you must realize - Moses worshipped the moon (signified by the horned hat) and the 10 commandments directly came from the egyptian book of the dead if you dont - then that is a matter of religous belief)

reply to post by randyvs

I'm not gonna bother zero. You know for yourself, I would never trade off, what God has quite possibly said. For anything man has most definitely said.

I know you wouldn't, and you know I'd never try to make you trade. But I've always believed in being well-informed of the arguments of all sides, regardless of what my personal beliefs are.

I'm struggling with this myself in light of recent events. I have, for the past year or so, been seeing constant and seemingly random occurrences of the "number of the Beast" as the Bible describes it. I continually see 666 in everyday life, and only because I'm familiar with the Bible do I pay this particular number any mind, however, that does not discount the fact that I've probably seen hundreds of other numbers and number patterns in the same span of time, but again, as a person familiar with the Bible, this number has stood out and given me pause.

I don't know if the Bible is real, but I can say this: If you ever played the game "telephone" as a kid, you know how the passing of a story from one person to the next takes on a totally new detail, meaning, or subject. You have to consider that during the Bronze Age, there were very few who were educated enough to write or read. Also consider, that Jesus and his disciples were supposed to be men of the Earth, simple people of "blue collar" backgrounds, not the type typically known for being educated. They weren't of the nobility who were educated to write and scribe, so the stories, when they were written, or even initially penned, were not written by the authors, but interpreted or dictated direction to transcription, so even upon the first telling of the stories, or letters as they were, there was an interpretation of what was being spoken, meaning that the person who first put the words to paper had the use of their own words. Additionally, as the books were assembled in the Bible that we have today, there had to have been additions and omissions throughout the ages. The Dead Sea Scrolls has to make you question whether or not there was more that was intended for the Bible, but due to political agendas at the times of the publications or translations, there must've been edits that could've completely altered the message completely from the original story.

I have one question for anyone pondering whether or not to believe in the accuracy of the Bible: in the 21st Century, how do you feel about science from the mid-19th Century? How about Spanish Inquisition or the Crusades? We're talking about relatively recent accounts, from a historical recordkeeping perspective. Do you feel that the people of the time, and the knowledge of the thinkers of those times were well enough informed that you whatever they said should be applied to every aspect of life today? What we know from just the past hundred years indicates that knowledge as a whole has almost tripled, and what we thought we understood from the prior century at the time of discovery, was probably revered to be the "smartest writing of the time". Now, you'd look at the storytellers from yore as nothing more than hokey

I'm always shocked to hear that people don't expect "God" to give us any more information, as a species, than he did thousands of years ago, knowing that we'd mentally evolve to the point of higher comprehension; and what we know now will seem rudimentary in another 100 years. Einstein will be regarded in much the same way that we now contemplate the writings of Da Vinci or Plato.

reply to post by xenujenkins

The part about the AntiChrist and anything to do with the Rapture or revelations for that matter was added into the Bible much further down the line after Apostles writting wich also were not original but written by others.

The Bible can be a wonderful teaching tool but those who take it literaly....are oblivious to scientific Facts.
Split Infinity

Originally posted by arpgme
Unfortunately, some people still need to be enslaved by the bible. I've actaully seen people say disgusting things like "If the bible isn't true, then we can just kill people".

And many people need to see that we are all slaves to God or the beast...

Here's where today's morals came from:
1963 US Congressional Record
45 Current Communist Goals

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
 
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
 
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
 
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."
 
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
 
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
 www.rense.com...

When God opens one's eyes to know that Jesus is the saviour, then one is able to see and understand the implications of the above items - and to then understand that the reality in which we live enslaves us all. Most in today's generation believe that their thoughts are their own, and little do they want to comprehend that their beliefs were given to them in a constant IV drip line of modern media. That was just 1963 - FIFTY YEARS AGO. In fifty years, those powers were able to indoctrinate these past two generations into NEW beliefs whilst stripping them of any interest in seeking God. How? Sin. The love and power of lusts harden our hearts towards God, and in turn our morality spirals ever downward into oblivion. People start relabelling good as 'evil' and evil as 'good'. An example - abortion. In order to kill a baby, most women have to think about it as a mass of cells. Additionally, the love of career, money or 'freedom' must be loved MORE than life, otherwise they can'tjustify having one. Now we heard last week of the thousands of confiscated pills which contained the powered remains of dead babies, taken by people who actually believe that it enhances their sexual performance. This is a prime example and proof that once we throw out absolute moral truths then it snowballs into more and more deprived behaviour. But we are human, and therefore each generation never learns the lessons of the past. It's easy for people to say our grandparents were the prudish ones because God 's laws prevented them from partaking in such behaviours as many take pleasure in today. But in that thinking, we FAIL to understand that it's our OWN beliefs that have been changed. We FAIL to understand that their children safely walked to school, that front door locks weren't used, that they
never had to worry about their kids getting hooked on drugs, that their child would come home pregnant at age 13..

Your comment that the Bible enslaves is stated from the perspective that demonstrates that you are not aware that something already enslaves you - slowly taking you away from the God of your ancestors. Jesus came proclaiming the Kingdom of God, the power of God to pick one out of the darkness of this world and into the light of Truth. That resonates eventually with those He silently calls, those who value Truth no matter how painful. It breaks down the lies and shows us Truth.

The OP is anti-Christ and only is here to do his bidding. He or she has long ago succumbed to the spirit of disobedience which seethes against God and His Son. We are at the end of the Age, when the spirit of disobedience attacks Israel - and the sooner that you figure out who exactly is Israel, the better. The days of Noah will be again - when the hearts of most were continually only evil, when the highest power was 'man' and 'self', when people scoffed at Noah's preaching of imminent destruction. There truly is nothing new under the Sun. Considering that the holy spirit inspired scriptures tell us what happened, why it happened, and how it happens again is a threat to those who reject God. Evil loves company, and will always prefer to hold as many hands as possible in its wicked ways. The human heart, absent of God, seeks to be accepted by others, and when it's the wicked hearts in the lead, nearly all will follow. The Holy Scriptures tell us to keep swimming upstream no matter how powerfully the current changes - and as more people reject the words of the Holy Spirit, and the Word of God as "man made", yet fully accept the man made new age doctrines (oh, the hypocrisy), this Age is guided to its closure by God Himself.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Starchild23

 

Good question there, Starchild. Is it real? As in tangible, or as in truth? Tangible yes, all true, no. Like you said, it was not faxed down from God him/herself. It is, however, the works of MAN, translated by MAN, edited by MAN, for an agenda of MAN.

That Agenda would be control of a people from a platform of faith alone.

Agreed, look no further than what has been written above.

There is but one use for the Bible or any holdy scripture for that matter......Control.

reply to post by iterationzero


And I have complimented that before I'm sure. You are most definitely well informed.

And the Lord God said, Go and destroy thy enemies, slay all, leave none alive. And on the morrow take freely the spoils of thine enemies; whom have been utterly destroyed.
This is not in the bible at all. That was me writing. It could very well have been. Was I inspired..no..yes, ??. There are many verses in the bible that are similar to this. How did such disturbing verses get there??
Many are there of us who feel that God loves our country most and is on our side ( no matter what country that maybe) and He would not hesitate to kill our enemies whom have done a great injustice to us. We feel that the great Almighty Lord would kill for us...(his other children)
It is as if we are forcing God to take sides..against his children that we consider not fit to be here.
THIS ONE IS IN THE BIBLE>>>>.
Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
It is passages like this one...and there are many that are worse, that I feel the writers biased opinions and hatred for his or their enemies gets in the way of what is truly inspired.
The bible is a great teacher. If you can read it as a growing insight to whom the Chosen thought God was to them then you will come away a better person. It shows that even today we still have the same feelings, toward our enemies, but for most of us we want peaceful negotiations, not killing.
I don't think God would go to such lengths to kill for a group of people that He considered his Chosen, His favourites over all other children on earth. it is certainty not the example we want to show our own children today.
What is very disturbing to me is that I do have Christians friends (and an ex) who can read these passages and not bat an eye at them.
I don't consider myself Christian for the very reasons above, but I do read the bible and there are very valuable lessons that can be learned from it.