ATS, I want to pick your brains!!!!

Next Monday at 9:00am I will be having a visit from an "Elective Home Education Advisor". I have made a small list of questions I'll be asking him and I'm giving you guys the opportunity to ask him some too! I'll be recording the meeting whether by audio or video/audio, we'll see.

So any way I'm having this visit because we home educate our children. We have 3, ages 6, 2 and 5 months. I deem all of them to be learning! I deem that we are ALL learning, without exception!

Originally I was planning to tell him we were not interested, though I had done some reading and there are some veiled threats out there basically saying if we went down that route it would be an or else situation! Here is one such exert.

Once a parent has decided to home educate and the local authority has been notified, the local authority elective home education administrator will contact the parent to arrange for an elective home education adviser to visit the home of the parent. If the parent is unwilling to meet in their home, a neutral venue will be agreed. Nottinghamshire local authority seeks to work in partnership with parents and would prefer to meet with parent and child. In rare cases, the parent may choose to meet the local authority adviser by themselves or not at all. If parents exercise their right not to meet with a local authority adviser they can then provide evidence through samples of work, diaries, reports from parents or independent tutors or a description of their educational philosophy or in some other appropriate form. Although parents are under no duty to respond to such enquiries, it would be sensible for them to do so.

I phoned them up and asked them if there is any law saying I must comply with them. To which they said NO! But basically if I did not comply at all they would eventually make proceedings to force our children into school (I'm sorry I've forgotten the term he used now.)

Now, I was still tempted to tell him to do one but I kept my cool and the chap actually sounded okay and was in agreement with some points I made so I decided to see him on my own! Here are the questions I have for him so far.

1) What is an Education?

2) What is reasonable? (They use this term a lot!)

3) Who decides what is reasonable education?

4) At what age do we begin to learn?

5) At what age do we complete our learning?

6) Did you learn more at school or in the "real world"?

7) Do you learn more off your peers or elders?

8) Do you learn more from experience or instruction?

9) What qualifies you to evaluate my child's learning?

This is it so far, I would love you guys to add or modify anything here and I will pick the best ones to put forward to the "adviser" ATS Have fun and go all out!

I question i really want answered is why every Child is not treated as an individual with different skills and quality's taking into account the different and unique Upbringing they have had.
To treat everyone equal in education seems foolish to me, Education should be structured around ones individual personality, Skill set and ambitions.
Generic learning should be scrapped altogether, We are not computers to be programmed, we are people.

*Are you concerned about the social implications of having your children home schooled?
*Do you consider your home a proper and reasonable substitute for the real world?
*How will you differentiate between school time and family time?
*Do you have appropriate equipment to meet the calisthenic needs of your children?

You're not the only one prepared, remember that.

reply to post by TedHodgson


Exactly my feeling too! The idea of teaching a "curriculum" is ridiculous! We're all wired up differently and have different interests! I do feel that it is beneficial for everyone to have a basic understanding of maths (adding taking away) and reading. As these are things we do everyday. But this does not need to be learned at school. In fact I feel it can be learned much easier outside of it!

You have a good question and I will be posing it to him! Let's see what he has to say, thanks.

I would ask them for standards of learning - what they should know by what age, what skills etc they should acquire and if they have any materials that the parent can use to follow such guidelines.
Put the burden on them! If they cannot answer your questions I would take that as a free hand to educate your children as you see fit (which is how it should be anyway).
Here in the US there are many associations of parents who homeschool.
We did that with 2 of my sons for 2 years and when they went back to public schools they were bored silly as they were several years ahead of their classmates already.
Whatever you do make sure learning is fun so they will pursue knowledge for their entire lives.
You can give them no better legacy than that.

I would create a few lesson plans beforehand to show them your intent is truly serious (as I'm sure it is)
You just need to convince them of that fact.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
*Are you concerned about the social implications of having your children home schooled?
*Do you consider your home a proper and reasonable substitute for the real world?
*How will you differentiate between school time and family time?
*Do you have appropriate equipment to meet the calisthenic needs of your children?

You're not the only one prepared, remember that.

Good point and yes it will be useful to address these.

*My children are home educated, not schooled. I know it may seem pedantic but it is important for me to stress this point. But to answer, no, not at all. There are plenty of places to meet people outside of school and she will be joining dance class/drama class of her choice. After all, have you never made a friend outside of school?

*Home educating does not mean we are confined to the house! lol We learn in various places at various times. Also you use the word "reasonable". What is reasonable?

*Is there a difference? Do we not learn while having our family interactions? I don't deem there to be a time to learn, I believe we are learning all the time.

*What do you deem to be appropriate? Our children are very active as we do not watch any T.V (the occasional movie). We go to the park regularly where they have access to climbing frames among other equipment. The dance classes will also help a lot on this front.

Is that okay Mr Advisor?

Please don't home school your children, It's not fair on them. They need the social interaction that you can only get from school, when I graduated that was the one thing that everybody missed after leaving. I've met home schooled people and they regret it. They may say they like it now, but later on they'll realize what they missed. Any place you take them will not replace the social interaction they're missing, the social skills they'll learn, and the friends they would make.

Originally posted by TedHodgson
I question i really want answered is why every Child is not treated as an individual with different skills and quality's taking into account the different and unique Upbringing they have had.
To treat everyone equal in education seems foolish to me, Education should be structured around ones individual personality, Skill set and ambitions.
Generic learning should be scrapped altogether, We are not computers to be programmed, we are people.

edit on 8/5/12 by TedHodgson because: (no reason given)

I can answer this one.

Education is an institution. It's a factory-production system designed to grind out like-minded children.

The only problem with this; children are individuals and in the institution model their needs are not met. Individualized instruction is next to impossible, and even working in small groups can be challenging. Ergo, lessons are pitched to the "middle" level of the class, with the higher students bored and the lower students hopelessly lost.

If we want to improve education, we've got to lower the student-teacher ratio. But here in the states, with the budget cuts, that ratio is going up, not down.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Thank you for your input and I have taken note of it. I'm not sure I want to encourage them in any way to be honest. Asking them for things I feel could give them the opportunity to think that we owe them something in return! Mind you I think they would just say no any way. Other than to direct us to the library which we managed to find on our own. lol

Lesson plans... Hmmmm... I'm actually against that kind of structured learning. We learn as we go and children are naturally curious any way. They are not bombarded with T.V or Radio so they make up a lot of what they do themselves. Our eldest is getting to the point now where she is questioning things that interest her or things she is curious about. This is the type of learning that I feel is best.

At the beginning we tried the structured approach but it was not really for her to be honest. So now we often do sums as we walk around the park or she will read random things like road signs or warning signs of her own free will. She is actually a really good reader and will often grab a book to read to her sister off her own back. This is what I love to see! She is reading books that are far above her age. She often surprises me by reading words I wouldn't expect her to be able to.

reply to post by SpearMint


It is ultimately their choice as to what they do. Our eldest has been to school and we gave her the option as to what she wanted to do. She chose to be home educated. She is constantly given the option to return but doesn't want to. What do you advise? Force? No thank you.

Have you ever made a friend outside of school?

Nm, question answered above.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I agree with what you are saying here whole heartedly! The ratio in our house is 3 children to 2 adults, though I wouldn't really class us as teachers. I see our role as more of a guide and to facilitate any needs/wants they might have. We learn about all sorts of things and have a lot of fun doing it.

Our eldest does the same for our younger daughter and she is coming on leaps and bounds because of it. When our eldest grabs a book or does some work she is not far behind saying "me work, me work!" lol. It's great to watch and how I feel it should be.

OP,

I'm a teacher in the states. If I can help you in anyway, just let me know. I think home schooling your children is an individual's right and home schooling can be wonderful. It can also be abused, especially if the parents don't understand how learning works or if they simply are uninterested. From your post, I believe you are very sincere in wanting the best for your children and I bet you will do a wonderful job.

One of the areas I would suggest "boning up" on before he visits is the developmental stages of your children. Don't worry about memorizing these; just print them off and have them available so that you can show you are aware of the "average" stages for each of your children. For example, you need to know the expected reading level, maths level, science knowledge, etc.

Another thing I would suggest printing off and familiarizing yourself with is the Revised Bloom's Taxonomy. link to Bloom's Taxonomy. Basically, Bloom's taxonomy explains the different levels of learning and ranks them according to higher thinking skills. You'll impress this guy to no end if you can show in your lesson plans that you are using the higher order thinking skills, like evaluation, analyzing, applying, etc.

Also, especially for math and science, be ready to demonstrate that you do lots of hands-on experiments and use manipulatives in math (like maccaroni or dried beans to count with). Maybe take some pictures of your kids doing these types of things so you can prove you are doing it regularly.

If I can help you in anyway, just let me know. Good luck!

reply to post by smyleegrl


I agree with what you are saying here whole heartedly! The ratio in our house is 3 children to 2 adults, though I wouldn't really class us as teachers. I see our role as more of a guide and to facilitate any needs/wants they might have. We learn about all sorts of things and have a lot of fun doing it.

Our eldest does the same for our younger daughter and she is coming on leaps and bounds because of it. When our eldest grabs a book or does some work she is not far behind saying "me work, me work!" lol. It's great to watch and how I feel it should be.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I agree with what you are saying here whole heartedly! The ratio in our house is 3 children to 2 adults, though I wouldn't really class us as teachers. I see our role as more of a guide and to facilitate any needs/wants they might have. We learn about all sorts of things and have a lot of fun doing it.

Our eldest does the same for our younger daughter and she is coming on leaps and bounds because of it. When our eldest grabs a book or does some work she is not far behind saying "me work, me work!" lol. It's great to watch and how I feel it should be.

This is wonderful! Let your older daughter "teach" some of the skills to your younger children. Teaching reinforces learning and will be a huge benefit to both children!

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by SpearMint

 

It is ultimately their choice as to what they do. Our eldest has been to school and we gave her the option as to what she wanted to do. She chose to be home educated. She is constantly given the option to return but doesn't want to. What do you advise? Force? No thank you.

Have you ever made a friend outside of school?

No, at the age of 6 they do not know what decision they're making, that is a ridiculous thing to say. They do not understand what they're missing out on, they can't possibly make that decision. No 6 year old WANTS to go to school, most children any age don't want to, but everyone has to for their own good, after you leave, like me, you realize it was the best time of your life, if I had opted out at age 6 I would have missed out on SO much. Not to mention the affects it will have later when getting the dream job you want, and yes, it DOES affect that.

"What do you advise? Force? No thank you."

YES. Not physical force, but a well parented child will go to school like ALL OTHER CHILDREN. If your child wants to play with matches would you let them? How about have a smoke? Go down the pub? Well of course, let them, what are you going to do? Force them not to?

That attitude is just plain bad parenting. It will be the children that suffer.

I seriously can not believe you're letting a 6 year old decide if they want to go to school.. that's disgusting...

reply to post by smyleegrl


Thanks for the advice and when I get a moment I will most definitely look into the areas you suggested. Good advice! If I can think of anywhere I need help I will be sure to inbox you if that's okay? I'll try not to bombard you too much!

reply to post by smyleegrl


Yes, this is what we have found. We have even said to her... "see you are a teacher, just because you do not know everything does not mean you can not teach, even teachers do not know everything. We do not know everything, so we can all learn together," She likes the idea of this a lot!

Thanks again for your input, glad you stopped by.

reply to post by mee30

I phoned them up and asked them if there is any law saying I must comply with them. To which they said NO! But basically if I did not comply at all they would eventually make proceedings to force our children into school (I'm sorry I've forgotten the term he used now.)

10, If there is no law that says you should comply, how are they allowed to intervene if you don't?

No, at the age of 6 they do not know what decision they're making, that is a ridiculous thing to say. They do not understand what they're missing out on, they can't possibly make that decision. No 6 year old WANTS to go to school, most children any age don't want to, but everyone has to for their own good, after you leave, like me, you realize it was the best time of your life, if I had opted out at age 6 I would have missed out on SO much. Not to mention the affects it will have later when getting the dream job you want, and yes, it DOES affect that.

reply to post by SpearMint


Speak for yourself. She has been to school and experienced it. She didn't like it. I won't make her do something she doesn't like. Why would I? I don't doubt that some people have a good experience at school but there are many others who do not! I know of many many people that hated school and still look back on it with regret and dread. I'm glad you had a good experience. But please don't assume everyone does.

I will be encouraging our children to work for themselves! Have their own business. Though if they would like to choose a different path that is their decision to make.

YES. Not physical force, but a well parented child will go to school like ALL OTHER CHILDREN. If your child wants to play with matches would you let them? How about have a smoke? Go down the pub? Well of course, let them, what are you going to do? Force them not to?

Our children are very well behaved and they listen to me no problems. However she has expressed that she is not happy with the idea of going to school so I will respect her wishes. If that changes in the future then so be it. I'm sorry but in the UK there is quite a large amount of children whom are home educated, so saying ALL OTHER CHILDREN is just false.

I do not want to sit here and argue with you over and over on this matter. By all means make your children go to school. We will do what we feel is best. So lets just agree to disagree here okay. The thread isn't about the home education vs schooling.

Thank you for taking the time to give your input though.