Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

Originally posted by Manunnaki
reply to post by Viking9019

 

Defects in the brain are genetic. Being gay is not a defect it's mother natures birth control!

Dang, sorry man, I didnt see your post, but it correlates exactly with my thoughts! It makes sense to me and you at least

Originally posted by twinsoulz23
If that's the case, then yes, IT IS natural to be LGBT. Also, how do you explain hermaphrodites?

Gender ambiguity is a choice!

(This is sarcasm)

reply to post by Helmkat


I've often wondered about the saying it takes a village to raise a child. I raised my niece since she was in diapers (and my nephew for several years) until now because of problems with my brother and his wife during their divorce. Honestly at the time I didn't even like children but, the concept grew on me and kinda had both dad and mom instincts over time. I didn't mind any of it, cooking, cleaning, teaching her how to do makeup, giving the sex talk, taking karate lessons with my nephew, fishing, hunting etc. Learning to do something new for me is fun regardless of the gender that activity is assigned to.

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by twinsoulz23
If that's the case, then yes, IT IS natural to be LGBT. Also, how do you explain hermaphrodites?

Gender ambiguity is a choice!

(This is sarcasm)

its the devils work??

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by Edgar806
Theyre not born that way. In no way os homosexuality inheritated. Its learned. And yes it really is wrong

Just go away, your input is negative and doesn't help anything, anywhere other than negativity.

You are hell.

No, no, you should listen to him. It was, after all, a well thought out, fact filled, well-informed comment. HAAAAA!

What makes someone homosexual? One touch, one thought? Repetition of wanting the same sex only? I think in the animal kingdom you will find plenty of instances of Bisexual BEHAVIOR but not solely a gay couple running off into the sunset as mates.. I think it's a whole new level and evidence of brain malfunction when a homosexual couple begins to talk about marriage and having a family.. You CANNOT procreate why should you be married and having a family?? You're beyond reason at this point you've forgotten you CANNOT have children therefore how do you justify wanting to start a family? Why should you be allowed to adopt children who can be converted into a way of life that is unhealthy for the human race? Like I said, what if everyone in the world was gay? We'd be extinct.. I just don't get it..

Regardless of how this may sound I'm libertarian so I'm for homosexuals enjoying whatever life they choose but I just don't get the family part..

Originally posted by toochaos4u
reply to post by Helmkat

 

I've often wondered about the saying it takes a village to raise a child. I raised my niece since she was in diapers (and my nephew for several years) until now because of problems with my brother and his wife during their divorce. Honestly at the time I didn't even like children but, the concept grew on me and kinda had both dad and mom instincts over time. I didn't mind any of it, cooking, cleaning, teaching her how to do makeup, giving the sex talk, taking karate lessons with my nephew, fishing, hunting etc. Learning to do something new for me is fun regardless of the gender that activity is assigned to.

well done sir or maam! the world would be a much better place if people actually cared for and raised children, even when they arent their own .
consider yourself lucky to have been such a huge part in youre nieces and nephews lives.

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by MegaSpace

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by MegaSpace
As an observe to this topic. I just want some clarification on something. To those who keep throwing the gene proof argument. Where is this so called homosexual gene? I done a quick online research & found it’s heresy & pure speculation with no concrete evidence. Does this gene really, really exist?? can it be proved it exists???

Is homosexuality natural?

Well, like I said they can turn female labrats gay by messing with their genes.

Genetic and physiological basis for homosexual animal behavior

Researchers found that disabling the (fucose mutarotase) FucM gene in laboratory mice – which influences the levels of estrogen to which the brain is exposed – caused the female mice to behave as if they were male as they grew up. "The mutant female mouse underwent a slightly altered developmental programme in the brain to resemble the male brain in terms of sexual preference" said Professor Chankyu Park of the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology in Daejon, South Korea, who led the research. His most recent findings have been published in the BMC Genetics journal on July 7, 2010.[27][28]

In March 2011, research shows that serotonin is involved in the mechanism of sexual orientation of mice.[29][30]

Other examples of animals known for homosexual tendancies:

4.1.1 Black swans
4.1.2 Gulls
4.1.3 Ibises
4.1.4 Mallards
4.1.5 Penguins
4.1.6 Vultures
4.1.7 Pigeons
4.2.1 Amazon Dolphin
4.2.2 American Bison
4.2.3 Bonobo and other apes
4.2.4 Bottlenose dolphins
4.2.5 Elephants
4.2.6 Giraffes
4.2.7 Monkeys
4.2.8 Japanese macaque
4.2.9 Lions
4.2.10 Polecat
4.2.11 Sheep
4.2.12 Spotted Hyena
4.3.1 Lizards
4.3.2 Dragonflies
4.3.3 Fruit flies
4.3.4 Bed bugs


en.wikipedia.org...

So again, is homosexual natural - and is it genetic? Look at the empircal evidence and the answer becomes obvious.

IMO - the only way you can conclude that it isn't natural is to purposely ignore all of the evidence.

edit on 29-4-2012 by thegagefather because: (no reason given)

Thanks.

Ok genes were manipulated by disabling a gene or so, how about a natural occurring gene by nature ever actually been discovered??? Without science ever having to manipulate. Also i don't trust wikis as much as i would trust my ex mother inlaw

P.s im heterosexual & completely neutral to this topic was curious to know if such a gene actually exists or not? That's all.

The gene that they disabled naturally occured in nature, and without it, animals aren't straight.

That's your answer. And it's a definitive answer. Because the gene for straightness exists, and can be disabled. Therefore, when that gene mutates or is disabled as all genes can be, the animal no longer has the same sexuality.

Nobody can say "does this gene exist" because as we know from genetic manipulation, no one gene controls ANYTHING. All genes interact with other genes to do other things.

No single gene will ever be found to control all of human sexuality, or animal sexuality for that matter, because it's a series of genes working together, and we've barely scratched the surface of how they work together.

Ok understood now, genes that affect hormone changes & balances in the body etc... So then they have a defect gene?

reminds of a prevalent church theory:

homosexuals are POSSESSED by demons that tempt them into sodomy,

.. complete with visions of a fiery underworld hell, devil with goats feet, horns, pansexual rape, sodomy, sadomasochism, orgies galore

what fear-mongering imaginations priests and clergy have at service/sermon

Originally posted by libertytoall
I just don't get it..

open your mind and your eyes, and you will get it.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
sexual immorality

OK, please help me here. As far as I can tell, morals are ethics. Rape is unethical sexual behavior. How is consensual sex unethical?

Originally posted by MegaSpace
As an observe to this topic. I just want some clarification on something. To those who keep throwing the gene proof argument. Where is this so called homosexual gene? I done a quick online research & found it’s heresy & pure speculation with no concrete evidence. Does this gene really, really exist?? can it be proved it exists???

Hmmm? I just googled "the gay gene discovered" and came up with 214,000 hits.

Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

Well, first off, I'm as heterosexual as a person can be. The ACT of homosexual intercourse makes me sick (unless it's two hot lesbians). Then again, whatever they choose to do in their four walls doesn't concern me, as long as it's not hurting anyone else, just like I feel with anyone else. Ever seen the German porn? Pretty sick, but hey, if they want to do that, then let them.

Now, to answer your question, let me answer it with a couple questions of my own. First, explain how a Down's Syndrome child is "born that way". Clearly, it was a choice, right? Secondly, when was you "choice day"? I ask, because I can think back as far as I can, and I do not recall EVER wanting to see what was under Timmy's shorts, but as far back as I can remember, I wondered what Suzy had, and damnit, I wanted it!

I understand the "Well, they may be attracted to the same sex, but they choose to go forward with the action" argument. I get that. I have been homicidal since I was very young, but I control that side of my mentality and have never killed anyone. But, I struggle with it daily. Was I born that way? Maybe. Was it a product of my upbringing? Doubtful, considering I had 2 loving parents who celebrate their 50th this year. My father never raised a hand to my mother, and I had a pretty "normal" childhood. Why do I have this violence inside me? I don't know! All I know is that it's always been there. It will always be there. So, I "get it" with that discussion. Then again, we're not discussing their act, but rather the fact that they are attracted to the same sex, right?

Are there people who are abused by their opposite-sex spouse, then flip? Yep. I worked with a woman who did that. Now, let's go back to mental retardation. If a person overdoses on drugs and becomes mentally handicapped, was that a choice? Yep, just as much as the battered spouse that bugs out on those relationships and becomes "gay". But, the vast majority of gay people have been gay as long as they can remember.

I know there is a problem with religion and homosexuality. I think their fear is that it would somehow make it so that "God mad a mistake", or something absurd like that. As if kids born with other "abnormal" issues isn't a mistake. Well, I had a sister with Down's Syndrome. She was BORN THAT WAY. She didn't choose it anymore than a gay child chooses to be gay. Instead of demonizing gay people, perhaps you should get to know one. Believe it or not, they're not evil, nor will they "turn you gay". There isn't a "gay virus" or anything like that. It's genetic. Perhaps, it's a way for God to try and teach you tolerance, and how to love people who may not be "normal" to you.

Going through this thread made me remember a very nice person who I will call "Kerri". Kerri was a trans-gender biological male who I worked with for years. She looked like a woman and took hormones in preperation for the day when she would be a complete woman. She behaved as any other woman would, everyone just accepted her as "Kerri". I had been moved to a different area and had not seen Kerri for about a year and a half. When I did, she had reverted back to a he, "Kerry". He looked just as male as any guy, short hair, slight facial hair, sat like a man the whole nine. I never asked why, but just continued on as it was none of my business. I don't understand what happened to this person. What about genetics...brain chemistry or what:? Please educate me on this, and no religious answers. I observed the change in this person myself...answers?

a defect gene?

only half of IDENTICAL twins (100% genetic identicalness) are both homosexual, the other 48% of the time, one is and one isn't.

same thing happens with left-handedness - not always even in identical twins, but a high correlation nevertheless. so there is a genetodevelopmental predisposition, but that proves homosexuality isn't purely genetic. instead, prenatal hormones and processes are at play too. our brain wirings are completely complex and NOT uniform.

is diversity not the spice of life?

is left-handedness a BIRTH DEFECT? is homosexuality a BIRTH DEFECT??

reply to post by libertytoall

Many gay people do reproduce.

Then again following the examples of Jesus, St Paul and the Pope might lead to zero reproduction.

Did they make grandchildren or not?

At least not according to any official form of Western Christianity.

What would Jesus do?

Well, He certainly never had grandchildren.

So if people are judged for being non-reproductive (which is in any case false when applied to the global gay community), then you are judging Jesus.

Originally posted by MegaSpace

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by MegaSpace

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by MegaSpace
As an observe to this topic. I just want some clarification on something. To those who keep throwing the gene proof argument. Where is this so called homosexual gene? I done a quick online research & found it’s heresy & pure speculation with no concrete evidence. Does this gene really, really exist?? can it be proved it exists???

Is homosexuality natural?

Well, like I said they can turn female labrats gay by messing with their genes.

Genetic and physiological basis for homosexual animal behavior

Researchers found that disabling the (fucose mutarotase) FucM gene in laboratory mice – which influences the levels of estrogen to which the brain is exposed – caused the female mice to behave as if they were male as they grew up. "The mutant female mouse underwent a slightly altered developmental programme in the brain to resemble the male brain in terms of sexual preference" said Professor Chankyu Park of the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology in Daejon, South Korea, who led the research. His most recent findings have been published in the BMC Genetics journal on July 7, 2010.[27][28]

In March 2011, research shows that serotonin is involved in the mechanism of sexual orientation of mice.[29][30]

Other examples of animals known for homosexual tendancies:

4.1.1 Black swans
4.1.2 Gulls
4.1.3 Ibises
4.1.4 Mallards
4.1.5 Penguins
4.1.6 Vultures
4.1.7 Pigeons
4.2.1 Amazon Dolphin
4.2.2 American Bison
4.2.3 Bonobo and other apes
4.2.4 Bottlenose dolphins
4.2.5 Elephants
4.2.6 Giraffes
4.2.7 Monkeys
4.2.8 Japanese macaque
4.2.9 Lions
4.2.10 Polecat
4.2.11 Sheep
4.2.12 Spotted Hyena
4.3.1 Lizards
4.3.2 Dragonflies
4.3.3 Fruit flies
4.3.4 Bed bugs


en.wikipedia.org...

So again, is homosexual natural - and is it genetic? Look at the empircal evidence and the answer becomes obvious.

IMO - the only way you can conclude that it isn't natural is to purposely ignore all of the evidence.

edit on 29-4-2012 by thegagefather because: (no reason given)

Thanks.

Ok genes were manipulated by disabling a gene or so, how about a natural occurring gene by nature ever actually been discovered??? Without science ever having to manipulate. Also i don't trust wikis as much as i would trust my ex mother inlaw

P.s im heterosexual & completely neutral to this topic was curious to know if such a gene actually exists or not? That's all.

The gene that they disabled naturally occured in nature, and without it, animals aren't straight.

That's your answer. And it's a definitive answer. Because the gene for straightness exists, and can be disabled. Therefore, when that gene mutates or is disabled as all genes can be, the animal no longer has the same sexuality.

Nobody can say "does this gene exist" because as we know from genetic manipulation, no one gene controls ANYTHING. All genes interact with other genes to do other things.

No single gene will ever be found to control all of human sexuality, or animal sexuality for that matter, because it's a series of genes working together, and we've barely scratched the surface of how they work together.

Ok understood now, genes that affect hormone changes & balances in the body etc... So then they have a defect gene?

No. Humans probably don't have the exact same circumstances with the gene that the labrats had. It's probably different genes working together to make the person gay.

Most likely it's not that a gene got turned off - it's that 2 or more genes a human has may interact with one another to produce chemical reactions in the brain that cause homosexual thoughts/tendancies.

The word "defect" is just plain wrong either way. The rat's gene was disabled as opposed to being enabled. We have many genes inside of us right now that are disabled, and they are not "defective."

The rats didn't allow us to find the gene or combination of genes in OURSELVES that makes us gay, they simply showed that playing with genes can make a biological entity gay or straight.

It proves that genes are responsible - but unfortunately it allows ignorant people to say "well we didn't find the gene in ourselves that does it, so it's probably something else" which is just avoiding the facts.

Originally posted by Siberbat
Going through this thread made me remember a very nice person who I will call "Kerri". Kerri was a trans-gender biological male who I worked with for years. She looked like a woman and took hormones in preperation for the day when she would be a complete woman. She behaved as any other woman would, everyone just accepted her as "Kerri". I had been moved to a different area and had not seen Kerri for about a year and a half. When I did, she had reverted back to a he, "Kerry". He looked just as male as any guy, short hair, slight facial hair, sat like a man the whole nine. I never asked why, but just continued on as it was none of my business. I don't understand what happened to this person. What about genetics...brain chemistry or what:? Please educate me on this, and no religious answers. I observed the change in this person myself...answers?

some intersex are stigmatized from early childhood and throughout life by a society that insists we are either a man or a woman.

by the way, only a few months ago did Google add "other" to its male/female requirement in the profile.

anyways, transsexuals do exhibit a preoccupation with the notion of being trapped in the "wrong" body. ie, deciding they are a woman trapped in a man's body, or vicey versa.

the problem with that, is a total dwelling on the physical, with what's between ones legs and/or shoulders. it's not surprising, persons that are not satistifed with their sexual parts/identity, never will be. thats why its important to accept how the mind is, not go trying to train the body nor mind to fit some arbitrary societal (and/or religious) mold.

Originally posted by Xandyr101
As a gay man I am asked by a lot of people if I chose to be gay or if I was born to be gay.

No one can just up and choose to be gay. You are or you aren't. Now Bisexuality is an entirely different subject matter when it comes to choice.

I know that I was born this way because its how I've been my whole life. I am actually a Pentecostal Preacher's Kid, so I grew up with the mentality that it was wrong to be gay. This mentality actually had me so confused because I wasn't attracted to girls like the other boys and even attempted suicide which led to me being in the hospital. I spent the rest of my teenage years being angry and even treated my family horribly, just because I knew who I was but I was taught that it was wrong.

I'm 28 now and I have left the Christian religion behind and categorize myself as a Pagan. I am out to everyone I know and have lost family members because they don't want to have anything to do with a homosexual for a relative.

There is NO cure for being gay. It's not an easy lifestyle so I don't know why anyone would choose to be gay. Would I want to be straight so I can fit in better with society? No. I love who I am and nothing is going to change that.

I have seen an increase in Christian views of homosexuality going to negative to positive response. Remember, the Bible wasn't written by God but by man. Man can say whatever he wants to get his way.

I'm very sorry your family was so lost. I too grew up in a Pentecostal church, and though I'm still a believer, I have many, many issues with attitudes and beliefs that many people hold forth as absolute truth and dogma. From a very early age (4-5) I remember hearing my grandmother, who I loved, refer to the avon lady as a "n****r"
and thinking "that's mean, and not right". I have the same gut reaction to this debate. In my mind, Christ is love, so if what you're spouting is not love, from a place of love, forgiveness, acceptance, and peace then it's not from Christ. That said, I wish you the utmost luck on your path, may you love and be loved and have joy unbound.

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by libertytoall
Has anyone studied or witnessed homosexuality in the animal kingdom besides the once in a blue moon incident? I mean has there every been recorded gay couples in the animal world? This is why I find it unnatural. You cannot procreate if you're gay so the most simplistic outlook on homosexuality proves to be unnatural and against the species progress. If everyone was gay we'd be extinct.. How else can anyone look at it?

I would guess that animals could be gay. Perhaps thats where instinct/desire could be variables.
Humans have evolved so incredibly much that it would be hard for me to accept an animal/human comparison.

Humans are biological entities, and in terms of genetic material, we aren't any more advanced than other species.

In fact, many species have much more genetic material than we do.

That said - you're wrong - humans aren't evolved past animals.

In fact... WE ARE ANIMALS.

edit on 29-4-2012 by thegagefather because: (no reason given)

Again im no expert, but we are on a whole nother level than them. Intellectually, intelligence, etc. They mave has as much genetic material, but Im presuming ours are far more advanced and precise.

You'd be surprised (as I was) to find out just the opposite. Chimps have forty-eight chromosomes and only 200 potential diseases written in their DNA.. Human have two LESS chromosomes, and FOUR-THOUSAND potential diseases! Whoever turned us into humans made a real mess of it (and I'm not kidding).