Alternate THEORIES of evolution:

reply to post by Iason321

These are my personal translations, made using a KJV and CLV for refernce along with the Westminster Leningrad Codex Genesis text.....

The problem arises in that the KJV, CLV, and all other versions of the bible, short of the original masoretic texts and ancient Hebrew writings, are translations, and no matter how hard you try, you always lose something in translation, as many languages do not have single words that mean literally and exactly the same thing in other languages, also, some words change meanings, depending on context, and lets not even get into the fact the KJV was written with s much emphasis on being "easy" to read and "artistic" in it's use of language while attempting to convey the stories and letters in the Bible.

reply to post by Iason321

Genesis 3:20 fixed translation:
And calling are the humans the name of the women of him life-giver that she becomes mother of all of the living,

Well now....who "fixed" this translation after 2000 years of us poor, deluded, dumb, Christians trusting in our King James Bible. And I do mean 2000 years....not 401 years.

The next verse can also be rendered:
And making is YHVH Elohim for Mankind and for women of him tunics of skin and he is clothing them

Can it? Maybe I can "render" a verse the way I would like it to read as well.

I'm not gonna argue this too much with you KJV,

That is probably a good idea.....for you at least. Don't dare come around here thinking you know more than my King James Bible just because you were "told" the KJV was a bad translation. I will happily straighten you out. Every child needs a good beaten ever once and a while.

but I will say this - the KJV is NOT the best translation of the Bible.....in fact, I can think off the top of my head atleast 30 or so verses that are worded in a very classical and (to modern interpretation) wrong ways.........

Then you would be wrong in 30 or so places. I can think of, oh, lets say, 30,000 or so places where ALL new bible perversions corrupt the words of the Living God, just as you are attempting to do here....WILLFULLY.
Remember bud....Satan was the first to question God's words......don't follow down his path.....you will be a castaway to God if you do. Unfit for his service.

GENESIS 3:1
"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath GOD SAID................?"

1 CORINTHIANS 9:27
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY. "

reply to post by RyanFromCan


That's precisely what the Westminster Leningrad Codex is....

WLC = Masoretic text

EDIT: The Westminster Leningrad Codex is an online digital version of the Leningrad Codex maintained by the J. Alan Groves Center for Advanced Biblical Research at the Westminster Theological Seminary. This is a verified electronic version of BHS, with further proofreading and corrections. The online version includes transcription notes and tools for analyzing syntax.

Amen!

Originally posted by Blargcakes
Evolution is a laughingstock in the informed scientific community. I'm not sure why people fall for it.

Well, that is certainly not my experience. What is your affiliation with the scientific community, or are you just making up lies?

are you people really so brainwashed that you believe rats jumped out of trees and killed themselves for millions of years until they could grew wings and fly? Because that is what evolution teaches and what the Illuminati want you to believe. Stay informed and deny ignorance

That's not what evolution teaches. On the matter of people being brainwashed. Are some people really so brainwashed that they believe that talking snakes and flying camels exist, and that there is a magic being that keeps a who is nice and who is naughty list of all the people, and that this magic being created man from dirt and then woman from a rib of that man, and then at some point flooded the entire Earth, and then also impregnated a woman with himself and was born half man and did lots more magic stuff and then died and became a zombie and.. Don't know why I asked.. some people really believe that stuff, and then they have the nerve to call people who base their views on observed facts brainwashed

reply to post by Iason321


Not saying I believe what I'm about to write, but I have contemplated it.
The story of Adam and Eve might point to evolution, and evolution might point to a god.
----------------------------------------
When the bible tells us that god forbade A&E from eating from the tree of knowledge, this implies that Adam and Eve were more like dumb animals (of the homind kind). Then at some point one of them had a thought. And that thought led to another thought. Down through the centuries reason and logic blossomed and branched into a tree of knowledge as mankind evolved into its current form.
----------------------------------------
In order for evolution to work, all living things had to have evolved from one living cell. And all the living things we see today means that the very first living cell had to be PERFECT.

If the cell didn't form a way of absorbing and processing energy in order to keep the cell alive long enough to split into two cells - no life. If the information within the DNA was flawed - no life. If the chromosomes didn't have a way to replicate itself in exact detail, and carry the exact same information - no life. If the replicated chromosomes didn't move to one side of the cell, with the original chromosomes moving to the opposite side of cell, the cell wouldn't split properly - no life. If the cell didn't know exactly when to split into two cells - no life. This is way Way WAY too much perfect information to occur at ONE time without some form of intelligence behind its creation.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

I'm understanding more and more.

But still having trouble imagining it happening with nothing directing it.....

The mathematical odds of such things occuring on there own are astronomical....I just don't think it's possible....

Can you link me to more article of primite life forms? This is interesting stuff......

Actually, I think mathematical odds don't play a role in evolution as we know it. If the formation of the very first living cell was a matter of all the right materials coming together at one time, then it was simply a fluke. The mathematical odds would only come into play when pondering if life could spring forth again on its own on another planet.

reply to post by jiggerj


You're onto something,

Delve deeper, this rabbit hole is a DEEP ONE friend,

Goto www.scripture4all.org... and pick yourself up a powerful interlinear study Bible for free,

and prepare for your eyes to be opened.....

I am 100% confident Evolution and the old age of the universe/earth, are PROOF of Gods POWER, and CONFIRMS the scriptures, as opposed to contradicting them!

Amen

Originally posted by gymbeau2000
75% of this thread is what's wrong with the world today.  A select few screaming out against pure ignorance and the ultimate control and manipulation tool - religion.

You have chosen to believe the indoctrination in the western lands - "there is no God" is preached in schools, tv, films and books. Hitler changed his citizens BELIEFS by free radios, films, posters and controlled newspapers - His Ministry of Propaganda capitalised on the simple unequivocal fact that brainwashing works. From the 1963 US Congressional Record 45 Current Communism Goals 

Goal 27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."
 
Goal 28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state." www.rense.com...

The problem is, you can't see that you've been indoctrinated by others to NOT believe in God. 

If you believe we got down to 8 people ...and I know your talking about the folk tale of Noah....then I guess you believe in a flat Earth huh?  Sun and Moon circle us against a perfect celestial sphere too...correct?  Oh, wait...that would mean there are no satellites...so no cell phones or internet.

 

Every single culture in this world has an account of a major flood in their tribal lores, but this is ignored by those who reject God. Do you understand WHY every culture has a collective memory of a great flood? Per scripture, it's a reminder of God's grace and His judgement, and that His judgement will come again. As for the round earth and astronomical workings, you are pulling out myths

I I had this old lady back home who would scream at us that there was no outer space and all that hog wash...but would watch the 700 Club on her Direct TV. Ignorance. 

 

So you use this unprovable 'experience' to paint all of whom believe in God for what purpose? I could throw back at you an athiest who has such faith that little ETs are flying around this planet because he's watched too much made up science fiction that he's lost all sense of reality. My point is simple - it means nothing other than you let other people form your beliefs.

Oh, and the person who said God is a good God.  Tell that to the people of Darfur.  Hell, tell that to lady getting beaten every night by her husband.  Tell that to the millions of people starving to death in AMERICA.  How about this, get your head out of your ass and realize - it's all a myth to control you!!  Obey the laws or you'll go to "Hell".  Listen to us, the boy raping priests or you'll go to "Hell". 

You have CONCLUDED already that this age of creation is all that there is with this belief. You leave no possibility that God is refining His creation. You leave no possibility that He designed this Plan for any more higher purpose. You leave no possibility that His creation has to experience this reality for its OWN good. In essence, you One word summed up the generations that were wiped out in the flood - VIOLENCE. In and of themselves men were rotten or corrupt. What God determined to destroy was ALREADY self-destroyed. Look around you - violence is a direct result of people wilfully choosing to do wrong. 5,000 babies are murdered every day by women who CHOOSE to abort them, men choose to beat their wives, men choose to rape women, people choose to rob and plunder. Do you see a common theme? CHOICE. We also have the choice to feed the hungry, injured and poor. THOSE CHOICES ARE PRESENT - AND IT'S MAN WHO MAKES THEM. God set two choices before us: good and life, evil and death. He even told Cain that he could STILL do right. MEN SELF-DESTROY THEMSELVES THROUGH THEIR CHOICES.

I Science can be proven.  God and the myths can't.  In face, in many cases, the myths can be dis-proven.  Just remember Occam's Razor.  But since there are so many simple minded good christians in here, you'll probably have to google it.

That sums up the indoctrination -God  must be proven in order to be believed - not macro evolution, not extraterrestrials, not UFOs - just God. And it's the biggest lie going, do you care to know? Get down on your knees tonight, with a love of truth and a humbled heart, and ask Him yourself. But I doubt you will, because the primary expression of man’s sin is in his rebellion and independent spirit toward God. He supposes that while God may exist, He does not care about man’s conduct or beliefs. If God does care, He does little about it. And worst of all is the conclusion that it is none of God’s business anyway. Rebellion is taught in everything today, and it you cannot see why only the descendants of Christians are being deceived to abandon their God, then you will never understand. Only God can show you the truth.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
The problem is, you can't see that you've been indoctrinated by others to NOT believe in God. 

Actually, it's 100% opposite. Those that grow adults without childhood indoctrination, in 99% of cases, end up not believing in a God. Those that believe in a God, especially some personal God described by a book, believe so only because they were brainwashed in their youth (hell awaits if you question the dogma).

Every single culture in this world has an account of a major flood in their tribal lores, but this is ignored by those who reject God. Do you understand WHY every culture has a collective memory of a great flood? Per scripture, it's a reminder of God's grace and His judgement, and that His judgement will come again. As for the round earth and astronomical workings, you are pulling out myths

You're making stuff up. Not every culture has flood stories. Many do, but that only shows that there were regional floods (just like there are floods in present times). For example, the Bible flood account is merely copied from older texts (like much of Bible).

You have CONCLUDED already that this age of creation is all that there is with this belief. You leave no possibility that God is refining His creation. You leave no possibility that He designed this Plan for any more higher purpose. You leave no possibility that His creation has to experience this reality for its OWN good. In essence, you One word summed up the generations that were wiped out in the flood - VIOLENCE. In and of themselves men were rotten or corrupt. What God determined to destroy was ALREADY self-destroyed. Look around you - violence is a direct result of people wilfully choosing to do wrong. 5,000 babies are murdered every day by women who CHOOSE to abort them, men choose to beat their wives, men choose to rape women, people choose to rob and plunder. Do you see a common theme? CHOICE. We also have the choice to feed the hungry, injured and poor. THOSE CHOICES ARE PRESENT - AND IT'S MAN WHO MAKES THEM. God set two choices before us: good and life, evil and death. He even told Cain that he could STILL do right. MEN SELF-DESTROY THEMSELVES THROUGH THEIR CHOICES.

Oh right. People choose to get cancer and choose to get infected by HUMAN SPECIFIC pathogens. People choose to have droughts that destroy harvest and cause mass starvation. Yeah..

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by jiggerj

 

You're onto something,

Delve deeper, this rabbit hole is a DEEP ONE friend,

Goto www.scripture4all.org... and pick yourself up a powerful interlinear study Bible for free,

and prepare for your eyes to be opened.....

I am 100% confident Evolution and the old age of the universe/earth, are PROOF of Gods POWER, and CONFIRMS the scriptures, as opposed to contradicting them!

Amen

Let's get one thing straight, young man, in no way do I believe in ANY god of ANY religion. The creator of that very first living cell is called "Creator" for a reason. The creator is NOT a destroyer! He/she/it would NEVER kill, or advise us on how to treat our slaves. He/she/it would NEVER flood the world to destroy all living things because man is wicked. He/she/it would NEVER turn a woman into a pillar of salt simply for turning around to look at an explosion. He/she/it would NEVER kill the first born of an entire nation (Egypt) simply because the pharoah was a lunatic.

Creator? Sure, why not. Gods of religion? No way. Uh-uh. NEVER!

reply to post by Iason321

This is a verified electronic version of BHS, with further proofreading and corrections. The online version includes transcription notes and tools for analyzing syntax.

It Isn't the Masoretic texts, it is a visual display of the ancient Hebrew text, with "corrections" and scholarly interpretations, meaning it is not the text

Do you read ancient Hebrew? I didn't think so.

Like so many things, you are reading the interpretation of other people, including their bias.

reply to post by Iason321

I believe the first apes/humans had trouble surviving because I've never seen a human being get tossed in the woods and survive on its own...

Have you never visited the survival threads on ATS? You might learn something new if you did, there are many recorded instances of humans surviving on their own in very rough climates, and settings. Just because you are ignorant to these instances, does not mean they do not exist, in fact, you must have your eyes and ears closed to miss them, they are quite prevalent.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Actually, it's 100% opposite. Those that grow adults without childhood indoctrination, in 99% of cases, end up not believing in a God. Those that believe in a God, especially some personal God described by a book, believe so only because they were brainwashed in their youth (hell awaits if you question the dogma).

You speaking for all of us?
'Cause I sure as hell didn't grow up in an environment conducive to religious brainwashing and I still bear the Shield of Faith. Our parents gave us the right to choose our own paths and my siblings believe in the Lord, perhaps not to the same degree as a Born-Again, but faith doesn't have to overpower.

The USA used to be an amazing country once... back when everyone feared the Devil and the Pit.
Now we've got people who put themselves above God, who want to be God. Satan is winning.

The irony being we both share a common enemy, you just don't believe he exists.

You're making stuff up. Not every culture has flood stories. Many do, but that only shows that there were regional floods (just like there are floods in present times). For example, the Bible flood account is merely copied from older texts (like much of Bible).

Didn't we prove scientifically that there were global mass floods about 6 to 8-thousand years ago?
I thought this was all common knowledge. Because it's in the bible though, it couldn't have happened.

Oh right. People choose to get cancer and choose to get infected by HUMAN SPECIFIC pathogens. People choose to have droughts that destroy harvest and cause mass starvation. Yeah..

I mean, people DO choose to get cancer. People die all the time from cancer caused by smoking or alcohol.
And people DO choose to have unprotected sex which can allow for the transmitting of HIV.

People don't cause droughts (to my knowledge =D) but they choose to rely on others for their food and they choose to stay in barren land. It takes a while to starve to death... why sit around and wait for it to happen?

---

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
That sums up the indoctrination -God must be proven in order to be believed - not macro evolution, not extraterrestrials, not UFOs - just God. And it's the biggest lie going, do you care to know? Get down on your knees tonight, with a love of truth and a humbled heart, and ask Him yourself. But I doubt you will, because the primary expression of man’s sin is in his rebellion and independent spirit toward God. He supposes that while God may exist, He does not care about man’s conduct or beliefs. If God does care, He does little about it. And worst of all is the conclusion that it is none of God’s business anyway. Rebellion is taught in everything today, and it you cannot see why only the descendants of Christians are being deceived to abandon their God, then you will never understand. Only God can show you the truth.

Well said.
And more so, the word clearly outlines the enemies of God and their plans to destroy everything that is His.
It's in the book and it's been there for millenia. Suddenly we're the the "Bad Guys" and we're wrong?
Science never proved us wrong, yet we're treated as if we are.
Science has yet to prove their own challenging theory, the one that supposedly disproves Christianity (which it doesn't).

This is and always has been the plan of Satan and his followers.
He has deceived the world and they are too blind to even realize it.

reply to post by Iason321


This isn't exactly recent.. and infact, if we wish to get technical, Saint Augustine was one of the first who proposed a method of 'evolution' [i.e. using biological/genetic material to recycle forms into more and more complexity].

As a physicist, AND a Christian, I believe Genesis to be quite accurate theologically speaking. It's not meant as a technical manual to state how x became z through methodology of w.

But I must say, cosmologically, there can be no truer beginning statement than let there be light.

Originally posted by amnislupus

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Actually, it's 100% opposite. Those that grow adults without childhood indoctrination, in 99% of cases, end up not believing in a God. Those that believe in a God, especially some personal God described by a book, believe so only because they were brainwashed in their youth (hell awaits if you question the dogma).

You speaking for all of us?
'Cause I sure as hell didn't grow up in an environment conducive to religious brainwashing and I still bear the Shield of Faith. Our parents gave us the right to choose our own paths and my siblings believe in the Lord, perhaps not to the same degree as a Born-Again, but faith doesn't have to overpower.

Obviously not speaking for all of you, just 99%.

Didn't we prove scientifically that there were global mass floods about 6 to 8-thousand years ago?
I thought this was all common knowledge. Because it's in the bible though, it couldn't have happened.

No. We didn't prove that. It's common knowledge that global floods never occurred, mostly because 1) it's impossible (not enough water on Earth) and 2) there are no signs what so ever of such having happened.

I mean, people DO choose to get cancer. People die all the time from cancer caused by smoking or alcohol.
And people DO choose to have unprotected sex which can allow for the transmitting of HIV.

And women choose to get breast cancer and African kids choose to get HUMAN SPECIFIC parasites into their eyes that turn them blind?

reply to post by Iason321


I posted this earlier in the thread, but the op never answered... OP could you try to answer these questions of mine:
1.) Was there preexisting material for this god of being to work with or did he just will it into existence? If your answer is the second choice or an alternate, how did he create something out of nothing?
2.) Who designed the designer or what caused the designer? Everything that is something has to have a beginning.
3.) If there is intelligent design, then why are there so many collapsed suns, failed galaxies, and planets that can not support life. if 'god' was intelligent then perhaps there would be significantly fewer errors and failures..
Also, according to the human genome project, 99% of the species on earth have lapsed into extinction at some point. Humans have been reduce to populations traceable to as low as 40,000.. that is how close we were to extinction. if there is intelligent design then why were we allowed to almost slip into extinction?

Originally posted by amnislupus
The USA used to be an amazing country once... back when everyone feared the Devil and the Pit.

And just when was the U.S. an amazing country? Was it when we killed off all the indians and took their lands? Oh, I know, it was when we used slaves and treated foreigners like the Japanese like dirt. Oh wait, it could've been when the industrial revolution sprouted factories that poisoned our waters and air, with the workers being treated no better than slaves. Maybe it was back when a husband and father could abuse his wife and children without the law sticking its nose in.

No, our past was beyond HORRIBLE, and now, right now, just when we COULD become a great nation, we are led by idiots and morons hellbent on taking away our rights as a free people. We jump into un-winnable wars. We gave away our jobs, and even our place as leader in the race for outerspace. Money is our game, and we are losing that game (no, we've LOST that game). You say the Devil has won; on this we both agree.

Oh crap, this is off topic. Go ahead and delete if you must.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
No. We didn't prove that. It's common knowledge that global floods never occurred, mostly because 1) it's impossible (not enough water on Earth) and 2) there are no signs what so ever of such having happened.

I'm sorry. I like you, you're a very intelligent person... but are you kidding?
Come on. Really?

Your argument is that there is not enough water on Earth?

...I don't even know how to respond. I honestly am unable to formulate a good argument, I am so flabbergasted.

---

I'll pose a question, instead.
Is the Ice Age a myth?

Originally posted by amnislupus
Your argument is that there is not enough water on Earth?

Just curious, but why did the flood have to be global? Why couldn't it be regional?

Originally posted by amnislupus
I'll pose a question, instead.
Is the Ice Age a myth?

You mean the last ice age? There have been numerous in Earth's history, and they left many signs behind. Northern forests are still changing (tree species frequencies) as an after effect of the last ice age, i.e. spruce is gaining back ground from species that are able to spread faster..