Alternate THEORIES of evolution:

Originally posted by Iason321
Hello, good morning to all.

This will be a quick post, I just want to present to everyone here something to take an unbiased look at:

What if a literal interpretation of the Bible, especially Genesis, is wrong, but Genesis is true yet allegorical in its explanation of creation/origin?

What if Darwinian evolution is absolutely correct, but was not a godlessly driven natural occurance, but rather an intelligently directed and divinely guided form of Creationism?

I present to you two alternate theories of evolution:

A) first we have Theistic Evolution, the idea that Darwinian evolution happened, as presented by modern science, but was infact divinely guided, supporting links: www.biologos.org... and www.solhaam.org... and www.theistic-evolution.com... amongst others, just do a quick google search of "Theistic evolution genesis" or "theistic evolution bible"

B) next up we have Creative Evolution, another theory that is similar to Darwins, but more realistic (IMO) www.icr.org... and www.icr.org...

Well, now you all have it.

Proof that Bible believing creationists do not ALL believe the earth to be 6,000 years old and a literal Adam and Eve.....

The hebrew names Adam and Eve simply mean "mankind and womankind", they do not mean "a man named adam and a woman named eve", though they can be interpreted either way.....

This is the second thread I've made regarding this issue, hopefully this one will stick around and reach some thinking minds.....

God bless you all

Flag and star, man.

reply to post by Iason321

What if Darwinian evolution is absolutely correct, but was not a godlessly driven natural occurance, but rather an intelligently directed and divinely guided form of Creationism?

It wouldn't change the theory one Iota.

Honestly, the current model has high energy photons messing up the DNA to make the mutations (Cosmic rays, Airborne radiation, potassium, carbon, uranium, etc...), if you decided to state that "God is Directing the photons" it wouldn't actually TEACH us anything at all.

And SCIENCE is about learning.

Using "God" as an excuse or explanation for anything isn't learning, education, knowledge, or teaching.



Let me put it to you this way, so that you will be sure to comprehend this relatively simple process:


Ages ago, we thought that sickness was an affliction of Demons possessing the body.

Today, we have DISCOVERED that diseases are caused by poisons, toxicity, bacteria, and viruses....

Now, you COULD say that GOD puts the bacteria in your body... but that doesn't help you out one single bit, now does it?

It doesn't teach you anything that is PRACTICAL, USEFUL, or HELPFUL in your situation....

it is essentially, Non-Knowledge.

And frankly, looking to interject "God Did It" into each and every field of scientific discovery is insulting not only to Knowledge and Science... but it is also insulting to *GOD*

A TRULEY Spiritual, Religious person would not do such a childish thing.... He would simply comfort himself in the FAITH that whatever Science DOES DISCOVER ABOUT HOW THE WORLD WORKS, that is EXACTLY what GOD PLANNED.

Stop standing in the way of scientific discovery, just because you want to answer every question about everything that humans don't know with "God Did it", because that's just LAZY and Petulant.

You shouldn't keep asking "What if God did it?" You are [snip]ing RELIGIOUS, and ALREADY A BELIEVER.

WHAT DID GOD DO, AND HOW DOES IT WORK, is the question you should be asking, child.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

What was that something?

Something like this

Seriously? They've drawn this conclusion from only one PARTIAL skull dated 28 - 29 million years ago?

Science must be desperate and hurting to use this as a possibility for anything.

reply to post by abeverage

Long term prediction is impossible due to rounding errors...meaning today's computing cannot accurately compute the so called Chaos mathematics.

Rounding isn't the main issue. In a CHAOTIC system you can't make predictions long term predictions because the outcomes can't be modelled accurately...and when I say accurately I don't mean they're off by like 0.00000000000000000001...they're REALLY off

Quantum computing or Biocomputing will

Which is a claim you can't make because it hasn't happened yet. I could also say giant space unicorns will invade earth...but until it happened and I can prove it, I'm merely talking nonsense.

Do you seriously think God uses digital? Come on...if the answer is 42 you will never solve it without developing Quantum, or as I like to think about it DNA computing or biomolecular computing.

We don't even have evidence for the existence of a god in the first place, so why would I care if he "uses digital"??

Regarding DNA computing...from your link:

DNA computing does not provide any new capabilities from the standpoint of computability theory, the study of which problems are computationally solvable using different models of computation.

So yeah...seems like scientists disagree with your opinion that those DNA computers will solve the issues you claim it does.

fine you win!

But I will go ahead and hedge my bets that there is a God.

Originally posted by abeverage
fine you win!

But I will go ahead and hedge my bets that there is a God.

And I won't stop you...I believe everyone's entitled to their belief. I can't say there is no god because I have no objective evidence against him/her/it, just like there's no objective evidence suggesting he/she/it exists. I only have a problem when people misinterpret science or make blatantly wrong statements that are demonstrably wrong.

Like people claiming the earth is only 10k years old...or that people can really survive inside whales

reply to post by MrXYZ


If you read what I have written, I have never once said the earth was 10k years old neither did the OP. Actually I state the bible was allegorical at best.

I only conceded because am just tired of arguing...I am actually in the field of computer science and you took that out of context with DNA computing and it is only limited by size.

If you read further you see that For very large EXPSPACE problems, the amount of DNA required is too large to be practical. Quantum computing, on the other hand, does provide some interesting new capabilities! Which I also mentioned as being able to predict Chaos or at least Chaotic patterns with better accuracy, but whatever we could argue all day and discuss fractals, attractors then move into string theory if you like.

My point was to me science I have had to learn and the expience I have points to an intelligent design, and that as a scientist I am not atheist. Further it is my belief earth maybe a biological construct or computer (that whole BIO-computer scale practical problem) by who or what is possibly our creators as well.

reply to post by abeverage


Read some of my recent posts dealing with the Simulation hypotheses...

You're absolutely correct, except some of us have discovered who the Conductor / "mad scientist" running the whole sim is - his name is YHVH, God, and he entered His simulation through a man Christ Jesus.

Amen my friend,

Amen

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by Iason321
I present to you two alternate theories of evolution:

A) first we have Theistic Evolution, the idea that Darwinian evolution happened, as presented by modern science, but was infact divinely guided, supporting links: www.biologos.org... and www.solhaam.org... and www.theistic-evolution.com... amongst others, just do a quick google search of "Theistic evolution genesis" or "theistic evolution bible"

B) next up we have Creative Evolution, another theory that is similar to Darwins, but more realistic (IMO) www.icr.org... and www.icr.org...

How can we test these hypotheses? If we can't. They're NOT theories.

Please be aware that the same accusation can be leveled at Evolutionary theory.

Some of these theories are a macro-understanding of the Theory of Evolution and therefore incorporate it.

reply to post by Iason321


I have often thought this is a simulation, but ultimately it doesn't matter as we still have to play by the rules. The same rules that created a 13 Billion year old Galaxy as well as evolution. All of my adult life, my education, my career even my hobbies (Astronomy, robotics) point me in the direction of a creator.

Originally posted by Deetermined
Science must be desperate and hurting to use this as a possibility for anything.

Really? You see science as some singular entity that is out to get you? It's totally not millions of educated individuals around the planet in present and past. No no, it's one gigantic desperate conspiracy..

reply to post by redbarron626


Mods, please remove the off-topic posts of redbarron626.

He has done this several times in several threads and while once it may have been humorous, it now is a little tedious and adds nothing to the thread.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

I am asking you politely to stop trolling my threads and posts if you can't think of anything worth saying or intelligent,

You're showing your immaturity and lack of ability to objectively observe by continually making crude, smart alec remarks to my posts,

rhinoceros pointed out a FACT...so I'm not sure what your point is

The fact that Rhinocerous pointed out is just as applicable to the theory of Evolution.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

You have misunderstood the point of this thread.

It is not to discredit Darwins theory of evolution, it is to question the belief of Darwins evolutionary model being unguided and the nonexistence of a Creator.

That's another baseless premise. Evolution is guided by natural selection. Again, if you want us to discuss other forms of guidance (e.g. by some intelligence like Allah), then provide us a way to test this possibility.

And you never answered any questions I proposed to you in the other thread, all you do is beat around the bush...

You never answered my question, i.e. why you thought that the "first baby apes and humans" didn't have parents. I think this also highlights the fact, that you know almost nothing about the modern synthesis or even Darwin's theory of evolution.

Please explain the natural selection in the case of Nylon eating bacteria?

Genesis was written to try to explain to people where we come from. It's a story that was passed on that has a moral behind it. God kicked man out of paradise for not doing what he was supposed to do. Tend to the earth and help it along. Man ate from the tree of knowledge and was forced by his actions out of paradise. Look around you, paradise is disappearing. God sent Adam and eve packing knowing they would never be satisfied with what the earth provided after tasting knowledge. Now man had to scrape the ground and fight thorns and thistles to grow what he learned to like. It's a lesson passed on from a being who knew a lot of how man turned simple into complex because he desired what he did not need.

I don't really think it was supposed to be a real explanation, just a story he told them when they were kids. It was all they really needed to know. U dib;t believe in the present evolution theory of man because it only seems to allow for what we have evidence of so far. It will change as more evidence is uncovered but does not allow some sorts of conflicting evidence to be allowed. Man didn't come from monkey and apes in my account. We evolved along with monkeys and apes and neanderthals and cro-magnum. All of us probably branched off some sort of Raptor dinosaur type creature millions of years ago splitting off as we went along. Any theory is not wrong because a theory is a guess. The present theory has evidence but nothing to prove things happened exactly like they say. They are probably just as wrong as I am, lack of evidence does not mean that things are not real.

Iason321

The first clue to everything you will post is this.....


You say you are a disciple fo the Lord. However, the word you claim to know so well says if you are not under authority you are in error. You must be under someone that has flesh. Who are you a disciple of? My guess is you are your own authroity which is dangerous. Who are you under? Only those who were under Jesus can be called a discple of the Lord so you are not a disciple of Jesus. You could be a disciple of a Pastor but that requires obedience and loyalty.

If you really understood you would know you are a 'son of God'. the Bible says he is seeking 'sons' not disciples. If that blows your mind then it reveals much.

Let's see? Are you a son of God or not?

what did an alligator evolve from. they have remained unchanged according to science for 250 million years.

shouldn't alligators according to natural selection, be super advanced intergalactic space travellers having cured all known illnesses and having a civilization that would be the envy of the galaxy.

no, i see them on swamp people getting tricked by toothless hillbillies and ending up as boots.

there are 1.7 million species of animals on earth. many older than humans. why aren't they super evolved.

there should be 1.7 million missing links. the odds favor at least one documented conclusive proof.

there is none.

why does the theory of evolution only apply to humans and claim we descended from apes, while there are still apes that have remained unchanged.

all animals have a limited life span which makes evolution impossible.

i can tie a stone around a squirrel and throw one into a lake once a day for a billion years. do you know what the result would be. a dead squirrel.

but according to what the theory of evolution claims, they should grow gills, breathe under water, adapt, become fish, and a survive. it's sounds ridiculous because it is.

to me God creating the universe and everything as is makes much more sense than animals randomly transforming into different creatures. the genetic code prevents that.

but that God did give the ability for animals to adapt to different environments does make sense, or else nothing would survive.

and why aren't there animals on mars. the magical theory of evolution would demand that an organism on mars would evolve and adapt to it's atmosphere. but we all know that's not the case.

to me, the other dead planets is God's way of telling you Earth is not an accident.

reply to post by pacifier2012


I am under the authority of Jesus Christ Almighty, YHVH in the Flesh.

And disciple simply means "follower".

I am a follower of Jesus the Christ, through and through.

Please don't attack me brother, I seek not to argue with you or cause turmoil with you, I only wish to bring atheists unbelievers and skeptics to the reality of YHVH Ruach Christ

Really, only the first 6 chapters of Genesis are open to interpretation, I think after that it gets pretty literal.....

Just the early creations and the history of man before civilization (I consider modern civilization to have started around 6,000 years ago) are highly allegorical and metaphorical....

I pose a question for you - if Adam, and seth, and cain, and all the others given in the Genesis 5 geneaology were invidual entities, single people, than how come the Geneaology of the LORD Jesus Christ, starts with Abraham? My belief is that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the patriarchs of our modern man, they are among the first in Genesis referred to that refer to specific individual men. Noah and his sons being single people or groups of people is up for debate with me still..... but I am 100% confident Abram/Isaac/Jacob were individual men.....

Go check out the geneaology of Jesus Christ, and ask yourself, why doesn't it start from Adam and eve and seth and cain and abel if those were truly individual people? The only explanation is that they weren't, and that's why Jesus lineage starts off with Abraham...

I am no wolf in sheeps clothing - I am giving Biblical truths and Biblical interpretations that I have deep inner conviction are the Truth, and I believe in the Ultimate Truth of Jesus Christ.....I was very in "tune" with the Spirit while doing this research today....and I've really now confirmed thoughts I've been debating on for a few months now......

Good night, God bless

Amen

reply to post by randomname


I will save others the trouble by telling you to go away and gain at least a minimal understanding of Evolutionary Theory and Natural Selection.
It is quite obvious from your post that you have zero understanding of either.