Alternate THEORIES of evolution:

True Darwinian evolution where man evolved from apes has been discredited by Darwin himself. But his original hypothesis that thing evolve over time remains true. Take the common cold for example, ever year we see a new strain of it, hence proof of evolution.

As for the Creationist theory: Every civilization that we know of that has ever existed on earth has a creation myth somewhere in there religious texts.

But if you truly wish to understand the origins of humanity we need not look to religion or evolution but history and archaeology.

The earliest know humanoid remain on earth around 200,000 years old form this we can find earlier forms of humanoids which is what lead Darwin to create his Theory of Evolution. The oldest know ruins on earth date back to 14,000 years ago (12,000 BC). According to religious texts like the bible the earth is 6,000 years old, while Hinduism puts the age of earth at around 50,000 years old. But from science we know the earth is a few billion years old. And from also from science we know that Neanderthal DNA makes up a portion of our DNA. So human are hybrid species.

Which means at some point in our history Neanderthal and some yet unknown species (the missing link) merged to create modern Homo sapiens. So somewhere around 30,000 years ago Neanderthal and the missing link created modern humans. As anyone who has done cross breading of plants can tell you that hybrids are very unstable, by that I mean can be influenced by there environmental conditions. So take the new hybrid species that is humanity, depending where on earth we were at the time we came into being will determine our skin color, eyes (Asians eyes are slanted which can reduce glare of of reflective surfaces), nostrils to make breathing dusty air easier, etc. So by the theory of Hybridization we can explain all the different race of the earth.

But what about archaeology? Well if you look at ancient ruins around the world from China to Egypt to South and Central America you will see similar building practices namely pyramids across several civilizations that should have never had contact with one. Another oddity you will find similar legends and stories among these civilizations which are so similar which would lead you to believe at one point that had contact with one another or through a third party. You will also find feats of engineering that are simply impossible to explain or duplicate with modern technology. Stone so massive modern cranes can't move them, stone fused together, stone cut so precise they make perfect right angles and show no sign of tool marks. This points that at one time Civilization on this world was much more advanced that it is now or at the very least we have lost some very important knowledge.

Plus just about every civilization that has ever existed upon earth talks about Gods or beings from the heavens descending to share scared wisdom with man. Perhaps instead of being Aliens or Gods they could be the survives of a past civilization that survived a previous global cataclysm and were trying to restore civilization. Like the recently identified base on the dark side of the moon. If we knew that civilization was going to have to start all over again, Humanity would attempt to preserve our historical record for future civilizations. The safest place to put such an instillation would be upon the moon. It would insure that the knowledge with in would survive until we were ready to reclaim it. Because from what I piece together form history is that civilizations much more advanced than us have fallen.

IASON321

You like many religous believers fail to realize one critical perception, humans have evolved to be intolerant of coincidence.

Darwins Theory of Evolution is basically an observation of coincidental occurances that coincidentally result in complex living creatures.

But to the innocent subconscious (primal) mind, that percieves its reality in a short term dimished capacity of reason which is compelled to justifiably want to be in control to protect itself, this is a contradiction and is intolerable, so is justifiably rejected(as you are doing)

You trying to do what you are doing continues to show that you are continuing to percieve your reality through a perspective that evolved coincidentally and is intolerant of itself...

reply to post by Iason321

What if the nature of matter is just a tendency toward life and complexity, and we just make up a lot of crap to fit around that be it science or spirituality.

Originally posted by JBRiddle
As for the Creationist theory: Every civilization that we know of that has ever existed on earth has a creation myth somewhere in there religious texts.

Many civilizations (including present) don't have religious texts nor creation myths, e.g. Piraha people.

The earliest know humanoid remain on earth around 200,000 years old form this we can find earlier forms of humanoids which is what lead Darwin to create his Theory of Evolution. The oldest know ruins on earth date back to 14,000 years ago (12,000 BC). According to religious texts like the bible the earth is 6,000 years old, while Hinduism puts the age of earth at around 50,000 years old. But from science we know the earth is a few billion years old. And from also from science we know that Neanderthal DNA makes up a portion of our DNA. So human are hybrid species.

Darwin was influenced by his journey on the Beagle and especially by the stuff he saw in Galapagos islands, which had nothing to do with human remains. The earliest anatomically modern human fossils are about 200,000 years old, but the earliest human fossils are much older than that, i.e. some fossils from the genus homo are over 2 million years old. I'd like to see a reference on your Hindu age of the Earth. As far as I know, Hindu scriptures posit that the Universe at least is billions of years old. Neanderthal DNA makes up a small part of most non Sub Saharan African genomes, not all human genomes.

Which means at some point in our history Neanderthal and some yet unknown species (the missing link) merged to create modern Homo sapiens. So somewhere around 30,000 years ago Neanderthal and the missing link created modern humans.

No it doesn't. It means that a modern human population that left Africa, interbred with Neanderthals (people who had left Africa some time earlier) prior to the divergence into Europeans, native Americans, Asians, and Aboriginals. Africans are modern humans too, although they have no Neanderthal DNA.

As anyone who has done cross breading of plants can tell you that hybrids are very unstable, by that I mean can be influenced by there environmental conditions. So take the new hybrid species that is humanity, depending where on earth we were at the time we came into being will determine our skin color, eyes (Asians eyes are slanted which can reduce glare of of reflective surfaces), nostrils to make breathing dusty air easier, etc. So by the theory of Hybridization we can explain all the different race of the earth.

Plants and animals are very different genetically. Plants can be polyploid, whereas animals (at least usually) cannot.

But what about archaeology? Well if you look at ancient ruins around the world from China to Egypt to South and Central America you will see similar building practices namely pyramids across several civilizations that should have never had contact with one.

Pyramids of Americas and e.g. Egypt look very different. Also, it's rather obvious design if you want to build tall. The fact that there are such structures in many continents does not prove that these civilazions had any contact. In fact, contact is highly unlikely, since these civilizations never documented it.

Another oddity you will find similar legends and stories among these civilizations which are so similar which would lead you to believe at one point that had contact with one another or through a third party. You will also find feats of engineering that are simply impossible to explain or duplicate with modern technology. Stone so massive modern cranes can't move them, stone fused together, stone cut so precise they make perfect right angles and show no sign of tool marks. This points that at one time Civilization on this world was much more advanced that it is now or at the very least we have lost some very important knowledge.

You've been watching too much Ancient Aliens (hint, it's mostly utter BS).

Plus just about every civilization that has ever existed upon earth talks about Gods or beings from the heavens descending to share scared wisdom with man.

CITATION NEEDED

In Verses 29: 19-20 of the Holy Quran, Allah, praise to Him, has commanded us to travel through the Earth to study how He began His creation, in order to explain to us how He can repeat it again in the Hereafter. Thus, Anthropology, biology, geology, and all other sciences which investigate how the solar system started and how life began and has continued on our planet represent an implementation of this divine command. أَوَلَمْ يَرَوْا كَيْفَ يُبْدِئُ اللَّـهُ الْخَلْقَ ثُمَّ يُعِيدُهُ ۚ إِنَّ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَى اللَّـهِ يَسِيرٌ ﴿العنكبوت ، 29: 19﴾. قُلْ سِيرُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ فَانظُرُوا كَيْفَ بَدَأَ الْخَلْقَ ۚ ثُمَّ اللَّـهُ يُنشِئُ النَّشْأَةَ الْآخِرَةَ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ ﴿العنكبوت ، 29: 20﴾. Do they not see how Allah begins the Creation, then repeats it? That is easy for Allah (to do) (Al-'Ankaboot, 29: 19). Say: "Travel through the Earth and see how He began the Creation. Then, Allah makes the latter Creation. Allah is capable of (doing) everything" (Al-'Ankaboot, 29: 20).

وَٱلسَّمَآءَ بَنَيۡنَـٰهَا بِأَيۡيْدٍ۬ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُون 51.47: We have built the heaven with power, and We are expanding (it) (The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 51, Verse 47). In this verse, God Almighty praise to Him, is telling us that He created heaven and He is expanding it. Modern cosmology supported this fact of expanding universe in the twentieth century. Like in the case of every verse below, readers will discover that these facts were mentioned in the Holy Qur'an 1429 years ago, in order to confirm to us humans that the Holy Qur'an is God's message to humanity, and consequently to follow its teachings in order to live happily in this life and in the hereafter. (Footnote # 1).

Originally posted by Iason321


What if Darwinian evolution is absolutely correct, but was not a godlessly driven natural occurance, but rather an intelligently directed and divinely guided form of Creationism?
God bless you all

Charles Darwin was a christian.

Nothing about his theory of evolution, which is merely that more complex life forms evolve from less complex ones, states that God is not involved in the process.

In fact, Darwin explicitly stated that his theory was in no way a refutation of God. He saw it as a better UNDERSTANDING of God's plan.

But many Christians like yourself are so scientifically illiterate that you dont understand that.

Originally posted by JBRiddle
True Darwinian evolution where man evolved from apes has been discredited by Darwin himself. But his original hypothesis that thing evolve over time remains true. Take the common cold for example, ever year we see a new strain of it, hence proof of evolution.

Darwin's theory of evolution, as highlighted in his groundbreaking work "On the Origin of Species' made no mention of Apes. That is just nonsense you learned in church, not science. And if your church is lying to you about basic science, I hope that opens your eyes a bit...

But I'd love to see you cite where he 'discredits it himself', unless you are referring to the nonsense about a person who claims to have heard him confess on his death bed that his theories are incorrect, which is utter rubbish.

Originally posted by Noncompatible
reply to post by randomname

 

I will save others the trouble by telling you to go away and gain at least a minimal understanding of Evolutionary Theory and Natural Selection.
It is quite obvious from your post that you have zero understanding of either.

I actually believe in alot of the Evolution thought.
But one question I can not answer for my very Christian wife is; Where are all the creatures that are 1/2 way into the evolutionary process? There should be thousands of creatures that are 1/2 fish and 1/2 something else with legs and fins and gills and feathers. Where are they ? I do not see any. They should be everywhere.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

You have misunderstood the point of this thread.

It is not to discredit Darwins theory of evolution, it is to question the belief of Darwins evolutionary model being unguided and the nonexistence of a Creator.

When he wrote Origin of Species, Darwin clearly stated that he believed God to be a factor in evolution.

You should actually READ the things you try and discredit.

Originally posted by nfflhome


I actually believe in alot of the Evolution thought.
But one question I can not answer for my very Christian wife is; Where are all the creatures that are 1/2 way into the evolutionary process? There should be thousands of creatures that are 1/2 fish and 1/2 something else with legs and fins and gills and feathers. Where are they ? I do not see any. They should be everywhere.

Are you joking around?

Darwins theory of evolution points out the slow, constant progression of evolution, not fish turning into birds over night. Just species ADAPTING to their environment for the sake of survival, over millions and millions and millions of years.

reply to post by stanguilles7


So where are the ones half way through? If it takes millions of years there should be all sorts of creatures 1/2 way into the process.

Originally posted by nfflhome
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

So where are the ones half way through? If it takes millions of years there should be all sorts of creatures 1/2 way into the process.

I dont know why you think there is a 'halfway' to be 'through', but one can find all sorts of examples in nature of varied genetic mutations which differ within species.

What is a mutation? The diversity of beetle species. The diversity of beetle species. Genetic mutation is the basis of species diversity among beetles, or any other organism. John C. Abbott / www.abbottnaturephotography.com Mutations are changes in the genetic sequence, and they are a main cause of diversity among organisms. These changes occur at many different levels, and they can have widely differing consequences. In biological systems that are capable of reproduction, we must first focus on whether they are heritable; specifically, some mutations affect only the individual that carries them, while others affect all of the carrier organism's offspring, and further descendants. For mutations to affect an organism's descendants, they must: 1) occur in cells that produce the next generation, and 2) affect the hereditary material. Ultimately, the interplay between inherited mutations and environmental pressures generates diversity among species.

www.nature.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

For example, here is an image of many dozens of different varieties of Beetles, all with slight variations, although they are the same species.

www.nature.com...

Dont go to church to learn science.

There's a third alternative. If you read David Wilcock's book, The Source Field Investigations, which is an amazing book, you learn that DNA can be reprogrammed by being exposed to information contained within electro-magnetic radiation. David's book reveals the scientific evidence to support the theory that a wave of genetic information is emitted from the center of our galaxy every 65 million years or so, which causes the instant evolution of species without having to go thru intermediate half-this and half-that steps.

reply to post by stanguilles7


I dont want examples of beatles that are a different shade of black or suttle things. There should be things crawling out of the oceans all the time right? I mean that beatle had to start as something else right? There should be countless examples of things that have recently crawled out of the ocean in the last 500,000 years and are now evolving into the next phase of their evolution.

Originally posted by nfflhome
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

I dont want examples of beatles that are a different shade of black or suttle things. There should be things crawling out of the oceans all the time right? I mean that beatle had to start as something else right? There should be countless examples of things that have recently crawled out of the ocean in the last 500,000 years and are now evolving into the next phase of their evolution.

I think your confusion comes form not understanding anything about the topic.

What you describe sounds like a cartoon. Fish dont just grow legs and crawl out of the ocean.

You asked for an example of species with different evolutionary variants, and I gave it to you. Your inability or refusal to use the links ive given you as a starting point in your own understanding are on you.

reply to post by Iason321


I kinda agree with you, though i myself wouldn't call the intervention "Divine", rather "Advanced"

Originally posted by stanguilles7
Nothing about his theory of evolution, which is merely that more complex life forms evolve from less complex ones, states that God is not involved in the process.

More complex life evolved from less complex life, but that's not the point of the theory, not now, and not in Darwin's time.

Originally posted by stanguilles7
I dont know why you think there is a 'halfway' to be 'through', but one can find all sorts of examples in nature of varied genetic mutations which differ within species.

It's because he's under the impression that evolution's goal is to make human like species (phase 1 - sea, phase 2 - land, etc.), which is of course utter rubbish..

reply to post by stanguilles7


Dont think you actually grasp the concept. Do you agree that life started in the oceans? And then that life eventually evolved on to land. Somewhere along the way legs and arms formed. There should be examples of this happening now unless the evolution process is complete.

reply to post by stanguilles7


I find it ironic that you say "christians like me" and talk about being quick to judge and discount science, yet you've done exactly that thing which you're judging me for.

Try reading the latest threads and posts i've made, and read everything I've written, before you jump to conclusions and pass judgement on me in a public forum......