I have first-hand knowledge that no plane crashed into the Pentagon

reply to post by 4hero


When will you report your findings on the new-to-you facts as of 2010/11? How long do you think it will take for you to pour over the data you insisted didn't exist?

Will you act as though what was pointed out to you (link included) doesn't exist? Will you take some time to explain how you're super-sleuthing skills uncovered so many smoking 9-11 guns but missed such crucial information? After recognizing the depth and breadth of your oversight, will you reevaluate your position or, reject the 'new' data as somehow irrelevant?

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by antonia

 

Yes, I do expect them to. I pay taxes, I want answers. If they have the proof just release it and everyone shuts up (well, most of em shut up).

Furthermore your Citgo answer doesn't wash. They took the tapes, if you have physical possession of that media and no one else has a copy it's your property. It's the government's property now.

You say that now but if you had something worth lots of money and the government gave it away you would start yourown thread "How the gov stole my XXX".

Just because they take something doesn't mean it's theirs.
If they confiscate a gun in a self defense situation, they give it back if it's proven the shooting was justified. Even though I'm sure they would love to keep and dispose every gun they come across.

Um no, That's the law. It's been hashed out in court dozens of times. If you have the data, and you are the only one with that data, it doesn't matter who originally wrote the data-You are the owner of said data and you own the copyright. It's why celebrity sex tapes can get marketed-Whoever copyrights it first get's the rights, just because you author something doesn't mean you have the intellectual right to it. You have to go through the legal process to get legal copyright protection. A gun is not the same, sorry go study law for awhile and come back and talk to me.

reply to post by yorkshirelad

I watched that as well,a VERY well made program with lots of interviews with the air traffic controllers involved that day and playbacks of the ATC tapes from the same time.Nice to see a program based on reality and hard facts that can be 100% proven as being fact,not the paranoid mumbo jumbo with no basis in reality which are all too prevalant on here.

ok this is crazy. although i wouldnt put it past our government to launch a missile on our own building, there are problems here...like killing ALL of the passangers of that plane. personally i feel that this theory is just disrespectful to the people and their families that died in this attack.
Also, if 9/11 was just some big conspiracy to go to war, was not attacking the WTC enough? like cmon even a hijacked plane crashed into the ocean would be enough to start a war. While such a theory seems feasible in thought, the reality is that their are SO many variables and conditions that have to go right, not to mention the countless people who actually knew the truth about 9/11 and helped orchestrate the attacks, and possibly could leak info

Originally posted by Imagewerx
reply to post by yorkshirelad

 

I watched that as well,a VERY well made program with lots of interviews with the air traffic controllers involved that day and playbacks of the ATC tapes from the same time.Nice to see a program based on reality and hard facts that can be 100% proven as being fact,not the paranoid mumbo jumbo with no basis in reality which are all too prevalant on here.

And very telling was the all too familiar : Human error, confusion, disbelief, miscommunication etc etc. I mean the goddam F-16's scrambled at Langley headed out over the Atlantic whilst flight 77 headed towards the Pentagon, why? Because that was protocol .... the Russians are expected to attack!

Nobody knew where the planes were....why? Because the terrorists did something devastatingly simple : switched off the transponder.

All this is irrelevant. I will say partly what I believe about 9/11.. When it happened I saw it live on TV..I guess after the first plane hit all the TV channels went direct to live coverage of the unfolding event.
That was the first red flag. In case there was no footage of the first plane, because even in NY city there may have been no camera pointed up just at the right time...so make sure you get a second shot for all the TV cameras.
if it was terrorists, they certainly thought about making it a "spectacular attack", worthy of a Die hard movie.
Any so you can now think about the question.."what if that attack had never been caught on tape?"..think about it, many atrocities are not televised or recorded..in fact all most all of them are not televised. If it inst shown on TV..then even 100 times that many dead, will not leave a huge psychological impact on the population. Thats the power of TV. i don't think this is a coincidence or that cave dwellers think too much about media propaganda. i could be wrong though. Just the nature of the "spectacular attack" does not fit with scruffy extremists who live in caves etc. Again just my opinion.
Then withing, what seemed like a few hours, Osama Bin Laden had already been identified as the terrorist responsible. How? If I recall a Arabic pamphlet was found in an abandoned car or some nonsense like that. that was enough for me to not believe what I was being fed. Too fast, too epic.

During the immediate aftermath of 9/11 the news also reported that Israeli men were arrested taping the attack from the roof of a building. Other Israeli were also arrested..now i cant recall if this from my memory but according to some people, and old news reports Ive seen on youtube, they were arrested in a truck loaded with explosives. then jailed for 70 days and sent back to Israel.

now if you all want to look up that story be free..im sure all at ATS are well aware of it at any rate..but when do people get arrested in a truck full of explosives and not put on trial? just sent home? and all of this on 9/11.

So all the other theories..holograms, etc etc..are just put out there to muddy the water and discredit this main common sense I have written. I have yet to hear a government official explain why those Israelies were not put on trial. maybe you all should be forcing that issue with the government before they remove the news footage from the internet which proves it all happened just like I state here.

of course it could have all been the way the official story states it was...I just cant make it fit my dumb logical brain, nor ever could do. so who needs whistle blowers or conspiracy theories, when the facts were there all along. Oh and I forgot to mention NORAD standing down blah blah blah blah...I didn't care myself about all this because i could not give a damn about a population who are willing to be blind patriots. They deserve all that is coming to them for seeing clearly the truth and doing nothing about it..other than to shout USA USA were number 1....mass hypnosis and a dumbed down and drugged up population...governments in other countries could only hope to have such control. I care now though as I fear once Iran is attacked it will be the end for all of us not just the idiots who believe what they are forced into accepting by the TV.

The sad fact that people still even debate 9/11 or the Kennedy assassination are testament to a world full of complete suckers. you do not need to know what hit the pentagon...and even if a tap was released tomorrow..they have had over 10 years of advances in computer CGI to make it look however they want, duh...yet if it was released tomorrow and showed an airliner...nobody would ask..WHY..why has it taken over 10 years to release.. these are the basic realities that prove something else went on. yet most people swallow it hook line and sinker..all due to media assertions and a country that has basically told anyone who doesn't support their military response that they are unpatriotic, and may as well be an enemy combatant. You will be discredited publicly if you are in the media and you tell the truth. they will turn you into Charlie Sheen. I mean he always had a rep for the strippers etc, but only after he made his statements on 9/11 did he completely go off the rails..MKultra anyone, no, u cant believe it haha then what did the CIA study and invest in mind control for years..what so they wouldn't ever need to use it on anyone hahahahaha. Get it yet, thats how powerful they are, anyone with any brains keeps quiet and toes the line, that included all the news media and all the academics. Lucky for me I aint got # all to lose and who reads this # anyhow other than the CIA for a good laugh, as they know nobody can do a damn thing about any of it.

reply to post by shortsticks


Beating a dead horse doesn't even begin to describe this post. As far as I'm concerned, whether the majority opinion agrees with me or not, what happened on 9/11 has already been figured out for 5 or so years. To come out 10+ years after the fact and try to argue a point which really doesn't matter anymore goes beyond asinine. It will never be proven either way, so quit beating on that horse and let it rest in peace. The fact of the matter is: It happened, the reasons why it happened and how it happened are quite the opposite of what your government would prefer you to think. Quit debating the minor details and how about focusing on today instead of something that happened 10 years ago.

Oh and one more thing. If all this was blatantly obvious to me, (a regular, untrained person), then you can bet you life, every intelligence agency in the world figured it out long ago. its not one or two glaringly obvious inconsistencies, its dozens of them, people even believe a building fell all by itself if the TV keeps telling them it happened that way, they accept it..its called brainwashing. And if they feel frightened to speak out due to peer pressure, they keep their mouths shut and get on with the 9 to 5 routine, after all what does it matter to them, they cant fight it nor change it, so may as well get on with the daily grind.
i remember a year or two after 9/11 i was in the state of Florida on a greyhound bus and an random idiotic American wanted my opinion on 9/11 and those bastard terrorists..I told him id rather not say...he then repeatedly pestered me to speak so i said loudly on the bus..."Its all bull#". I nearly got into serious fights several times over there, for being forced to give my true opinions. thats how it is in the states, so people with brains, but no balls, keep their mouths shut.

Here are some vids from the news that talk about no plane. Sorry if these are already posted.




Ltru

Originally posted by babybunnies
For me, the best evidence that no plane hit the Pentagon is the complete lack of footage showing the plane on approach.

With all the CCTV and building security cameras in place around the Pentagon, the hardest part that I have a problem believing is that there is no footage of the plane coming in.

Release the footage, and you'll silence the skeptics, well, most of them anyway. There will still be the idiots out there who will claim the footage has been faked.

Agreed! After watching the 'so called' impact video's I do not see how the plane would not show up on any of the videos. Weird stuff and I have witnessed a high speed jet accident while in the NAVY.

I did see a news story that had a private video of actual plane debris found around the pentagon however at the time the PTB were scrambling to collect all possible 'evidence'...hmmmm I cant seem to find that video, but after watching that clip a few times it looked like part of the aluminum fuselage, even had the rivets and all. So I dont know what to make of it.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


I aint even watching the videos, this is the exact problem im talking about. people who need video as proof will get CGI footage of #ing aliens attacking us in the near future and believe it. the events of 9/11 in themselves point enough circumstantial and damming evidence towards mossad and the U.S. government that you would have to be a child not to have figured it out withing a couple of days maximum after the event.
instead ponder over videos and speculate over supposed new evidence or thermite etc etc etc for ever more. Apparently the U.S. population simply is unwilling to swallow reality...you were all played for complete fools. u were happy to invade 2+countries and help kill hundreds of thousands of people. for all this complicity, if there is a God, you lot are all going to hell for doing nothing to stop your war machine. Next stop Iran and the end of life as we know it.

reply to post by antonia


I think you're wrong.

In all countries where the Berne Convention standards apply, copyright is automatic, and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights.

link

Got any evidence or legal rulings to cite?

And thats one more thing to think about...if all the intelligence agencies in the world, figured out 9/11 was a false flag. what would that mean..because no country has come forward and admitted they know anything. It means that either all other countries who are not allies, either do not care about U.S. affairs, or that they are all part of a long term plan. Its the same thing with the Alien stuff, if there was a Roswell etc, then the aliens wont just have landed in America but all over the place...and even the best kept top secrets get passed around between countries...thats what spies are for. So u can reasonable conclude, all the major countries are completely on the same page. that means Russia and the U.S. are a hell of a lot closer than you might think.

reply to post by splitlevel


Or you could be mistaken in your estimation of your own investigative abilities.

The trouble with the reasoning you outline is that it doesn't distinguish itself from the alternate hypotheses.

What would be the expected result if 9/11 was an "outside job" and all the intel agencies know that? And what in the case that the origins of 9/11 are not in fact known to the intel agencies, what then?

Originally posted by KnightFire

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by shortsticks

 

This has been rehashed to no end.
And here on ATS there was an incredibly well researched post showing pictures of landing gear, wheel rims and parts of engine of the type used on that plane.

For me the burden of proof must pretty extensive and well researched to show that it was something other than a plane that hit the pentagon.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you will take a look at the post above you will see the thought and research that went into showing that a 757 did indeed hit the Pentagon.

Did someone come by and seed those 2 pieces of evidence after the crash?
I find that unlikely but if you can convince me otherwise I'm willing to listen.

So... what do you have?

Oh come on, we all know these pictures where Photoshopped. The US Government has a histroy of using Photoshop, just ask Barry about his birth certificate.

Didn't the airliner have TWELVE wheels? Why do we only ever see that one picture which is photographed such that we cannot tell the size?

psik

will someone please explain what happened to all the passengers of the aircraft that supposedly died in this attack? lol. I mean killing a few people here and there to cover up your tracks is one thing, but a few hundred...

plus, this doesnt make sense. If a plane hitting the pentagon is so bad, why send a missile? if they wanted to attack the pentagon, it seems much easier to use a plane (which backs up the reported story) than to use a missile and cover it up.

Originally posted by InspirationEverywhere
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I'll look through it another day myself, just wondering, if even some of the evidence of the pentagon attack was submitted or discussed in a court of law, how could the footage of an extra 25, 50, even 80 cameras not be of incredible importance and benefit to all concerned!!

I'm sure the footage of all the others cameras is of interest and for all I know, one of the handful of evidence items not on public display at the Virginia trial website could be from one. It doesn't say that...but I've also wondered how public areas are covered from so many different directions on just an average city street...yet the Pentagon of all places couldn't pony up better than this? Oh well...


What makes the collection of evidence valuable to me is the fact the 1202 pieces of evidence are NOT just what convicted our elusive 20th Hijacker. They put up ALL the evidence submitted and used by the Defense Team as well. So.. If these evidence items to show a plane wasn't involved DO exist, it's a very fair question to go ask the defense in this case why not even a hint of that evidence appeared in the trial. Even as a submission blocked by an evidentiary ruling, I didn't see such things attempt to come into the trial. At least the transcripts don't show that happening.

It's a MOUNTAIN of stuff to look at there though. I'll bet your looking at documents and photos relating to 9/11 for a few days in just what they have there from the trial if your looking to dig deep and hunt for the truth. There is no shortage of it...in fact, too MUCH for the time most folks have.

reply to post by DrEugeneFixer


Uh. Simple question. if some Israelis were found in a truck loaded with explosives under the Washington bridge on 9/11 and were arrested but never put on trial and released back to Israel 70 days later.

What does that one fact tell you?

Or are you a complete fool.. and before you answer me...read my question and answer my question directly.