I have first-hand knowledge that no plane crashed into the Pentagon

Originally posted by canselmi

Originally posted by Ghostcooler
i have come to find that whenever someone is withholding information for whatever reason it is is for the prim reason to deceive or misdirect or even oh no LIE because they have ulterior motives.

I have to respectfully disagree. I think it is perfectly normal to not release evidence concerning a crime. It happens all the time. Just like in poker, you never show your cards, whether you have a good hand or not.

Perfetly normal, eventhough the public desperately wants to see it.... They released some of the videos (that show nothing) that they once confiscated, but they wont release the others.... Hmmm??? They are acting like this is an active investigation, its been over a decade, why keep everything a mystery??? Just release the tapes and shut US truthers up once and for all..... They are definitely hiding something....

reply to post by jhn7537


Gonna call BS.

You already have photos, dozens of eye witnesses and matching wreckage.

If you actually care about evidence, you'd not be a truther.

There's plenty of ex-truthers, I'm one, but they and I followed evidence, and don't rely on ridiculous YouTube "documentaries".

Originally posted by jhn7537

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by jhn7537

 

Its not hard to doctor photos and its not hard to plant eye witnesses to say what you want them to say....

SMH.
There are links posted on this and other threads to the police dispatcher and police officers discussing the airplane crashing. One officer even reported seeing that it was an American Airlines jet. It is a real-time audio recording.

I guess in the truther world, nearly everyone was in on this coverup.

And there are multiple reports of people saying they saw a small passenger plane, also people saw what they said was a military plane without any type of clear identification.... There are MULTIPLE reports of people who said they saw different things contradict the official story......

So becasue police and fireman said its true in the pentagon case its OKAY... But when fireman discuss how they heard bombs going off at the WTC towers and that it was like a foundry under the rubble we should ignore that testimony???

That is simply untrue. There is considerable unanimity amongst witnesses at the Pentagon that the plane was a large airliner. Only two have been identified in this breakdown as saying they saw a corporate jet :-

911research.wtc7.net...

And none for a missile of course.

reply to post by canselmi


Your reply to my post is then referenced by a game based entirely on deception&luck!

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by jhn7537

 

Gonna call BS.

You already have photos, dozens of eye witnesses and matching wreckage.

If you actually care about evidence, you'd not be a truther.

There's plenty of ex-truthers, I'm one, but they and I followed evidence, and don't rely on ridiculous YouTube "documentaries".

We dont have one photo of the plane hitting the pentagon... We have multiple reports of people who saw a miltary plane in the skys when the crash happened (theres actually a photo of it), there are people who saw a smaller commuter plane, many people saw MANY different things that day... Also, there were military folks inside the Pentagon who smelled cordite (used in explosives) after the attack.... The photos they released arent good enough proof to me and it would be pretty easy to put some wreckage on the site, strangely, all the pieces they found were tiny enough where you or I could lift them by ourselves...

Originally posted by Gibonz
Your basing evidence on what you see in the photos. When were the photos taken exactly of the interior of the pentagon impact zone, date/time? Could something have been planted between the time of impact and the photos being taken?

The person who took the photos, would they have had special clearance to gain access?

Was 'evidence' already on site at the pentagon ready to be moved into position?

How do you know certain members of the police, fire crew etc were not in on it? Were some people gagged to not speak of anything that would detract from the OS?

edit on 19-4-2012 by Gibonz because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-4-2012 by Gibonz because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-4-2012 by Gibonz because: (no reason given)

Yes certainly all of that could true.
Personally I think there's a conspiracy of some sort.
Whether the government is complicit or just let the attacks happen i don't know.
However what you propose is lie on top of lie on top of lie.
And it just seems to me that like a deck of cards at some moment the deck should topple.
I know that secrets can be kept for a long time. But this is just getting out of hand.

reply to post by shortsticks


Does anyone remember that it was first reported that a car bomb had gone off at the Pentagon? Surely, if it was a plane, people would have first reported it as a plane, and not a bomb of some sorts. It was definitely not a plane.

They are definitely hiding something....

I agree that it's logical to assume they are hiding something by not releasing the videos. I can't argue with you there.
But I still can't believe that it was their plan for it to unfold this way.

9/11 Planner #1: We're going to crash an airplane into the Pentagon.
9/11 Planner #2: No, that's too easy. Let's shoot a missle into it.
#1: Why? That'll be hard to pull off.
#2: No, we only have to fire the missle, have dozens of FBI agents waiting to confiscate any surveillance videos, plant some evidence, pray that we don't miss a camera or that a citizen doesn't have his cell phone out, kill and dispose of the 100 or so passengers who are suppose to be on Flight 77. What could go wrong?
#1: I don't know, seems like a lot of potential loose ends. I still think we should just fly a plane into it.
#2: Don't worry, who will suspect anything?

Again, does the official story make 100% sense? No. But it makes about as much sense as the above conversation.

Originally posted by jhn7537

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by jhn7537

 

Gonna call BS.

You already have photos, dozens of eye witnesses and matching wreckage.

If you actually care about evidence, you'd not be a truther.

There's plenty of ex-truthers, I'm one, but they and I followed evidence, and don't rely on ridiculous YouTube "documentaries".

We dont have one photo of the plane hitting the pentagon... We have multiple reports of people who saw a miltary plane in the skys when the crash happened (theres actually a photo of it), there are people who saw a smaller commuter plane, many people saw MANY different things that day... Also, there were military folks inside the Pentagon who smelled cordite (used in explosives) after the attack.... The photos they released arent good enough proof to me and it would be pretty easy to put some wreckage on the site, strangely, all the pieces they found were tiny enough where you or I could lift them by ourselves...

Yes there was a C130 there. The pilot watched AA 77 go in and you can hear him talking about it here :-

www.youtube.com...

You really don't know much about what happened that day do you ?

Btw, cordite is an obsolete British propellant that hasn't been used for years and certainly would not have been in a 2001 missile.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious

The endless labelling of anyone that disagrees them, as "shills" shows just how weak the Truthers argument really is.

If there was good proof, and not dozens of photos of plane parts and dozens of witnesses who saw a plane, than the people on ATS would be open. But... There's not.

The reality of this thread is that a Truther has, yet again, decided to lie to push their agenda.

Surprising how often that happens.

You're not going to believe this coming me:
Very well said, and agree with that 100%!

Star for you!

See ya,
Milt

Originally posted by canselmi

They are definitely hiding something....

I agree that it's logical to assume they are hiding something by not releasing the videos. I can't argue with you there.
But I still can't believe that it was their plan for it to unfold this way.

9/11 Planner #1: We're going to crash an airplane into the Pentagon.
9/11 Planner #2: No, that's too easy. Let's shoot a missle into it.
#1: Why? That'll be hard to pull off.
#2: No, we only have to fire the missle, have dozens of FBI agents waiting to confiscate any surveillance videos, plant some evidence, pray that we don't miss a camera or that a citizen doesn't have his cell phone out, kill and dispose of the 100 or so passengers who are suppose to be on Flight 77. What could go wrong?
#1: I don't know, seems like a lot of potential loose ends. I still think we should just fly a plane into it.
#2: Don't worry, who will suspect anything?

Again, does the official story make 100% sense? No. But it makes about as much sense as the above conversation.

One of the big issues I have is that the 9/11 commission did a piss poor job answering questions on what happened that day... I feel they rushed to conclusions and left a lot of pertinent information out. It seemed like they did a half ass job on it, and knowing this was one of the biggest "terrorist" attacks in US history, you would think they would of done their due dilligence.... IMO, the OS should make 100% sense, it SHOULD answer all questions, and it SHOULD leave ZERO doubt for all people out there...I'm not your over-the-top truther who believes the bat-sh*t crazy stuff like holograms and things of that nature, but i do believe that there are a lot of inconsistencies with the Pentagon, building 7, the molten metal found under the towers (possible thermate used), and all the secrecy thats surrounding what happened on that tragic day..

reply to post by jhn7537

Just release the tapes and shut US truthers up once and for all..... They are definitely hiding something....

Did you ever consider that there is no other tape showing the plane? You are assuming that they actually have more tapes and are just hiding them. Hiding like the secret service hides their hookers?

You assume that the government can hide all their actions in a grand conspiracy.
They can't even hide pictures of troops peeing on dead combatants.
They can't hide a book burning.

Lets take the argument that the government did pull off 911.
How many people would it take? Dozens? Hundreds?
Add up the number of people to plan and set things up days before.
Add up the number of people to execute the events that day.
Add up the number of people to hide the evidence after the event.
Add up the number of people to steer the investigations.

And no one screwed up? Hell Clinton couldn't get a BJ without hearings being held. And there were only two of them involved.
No one ?
Not one single confession after someone is born again?
Not one person ran out of payoff money?
Not one book deal?
Not one deathbed confession as Deepthroat did.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by jhn7537

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by jhn7537

 

Gonna call BS.

You already have photos, dozens of eye witnesses and matching wreckage.

If you actually care about evidence, you'd not be a truther.

There's plenty of ex-truthers, I'm one, but they and I followed evidence, and don't rely on ridiculous YouTube "documentaries".

We dont have one photo of the plane hitting the pentagon... We have multiple reports of people who saw a miltary plane in the skys when the crash happened (theres actually a photo of it), there are people who saw a smaller commuter plane, many people saw MANY different things that day... Also, there were military folks inside the Pentagon who smelled cordite (used in explosives) after the attack.... The photos they released arent good enough proof to me and it would be pretty easy to put some wreckage on the site, strangely, all the pieces they found were tiny enough where you or I could lift them by ourselves...

Yes there was a C130 there. The pilot watched AA 77 go in and you can hear him talking about it here :-

www.youtube.com...

You really don't know much about what happened that day do you ?

Btw, cordite is an obsolete British propellant that hasn't been used for years and certainly would not have been in a 2001 missile.

I never said missile.... And its a military propellant neverltheless that was used to replace gunpowder...

Does anyone remember that it was first reported that a car bomb had gone off at the Pentagon? Surely, if it was a plane, people would have first reported it as a plane, and not a bomb of some sorts. It was definitely not a plane.

Yes. After the news of the towers, I remember hearing a report of a bomb at the Pentagon helo pad (most likely CNN). I later wondered how they missed Pentagon situation by so much. Now it is obvious that breaking news is often wrong in the details.

reply to post by jhn7537

the OS should make 100% sense, it SHOULD answer all questions, and it SHOULD leave ZERO doubt for all people out there...

That's impossible.
All it takes is one person to say "I think that picture is a fake".

reply to post by samkent


Its my understanding that there is an ongoing law suit going on to get these tape released using the Freedom of Information Act. The FBI was withholding 84 tapes that were around that location....

The Pentagon is one of the most guarded buildings in our country, it houses our countries defense... Do you honestly believe there isnt a security camera out there that wouldnt have had a clear view of what happened that day?

the 9/11 commission did a piss poor job

We can agree on this point, as I feel the government does a piss poor job on just about everything.
Also, I'm not a hardcore Official Story believer. I could believe that the governement knew about the attacks and did nothing to stop it (which is just as bad, to me, as doing it themselves).

But to me it all boils down to this:
I just can't believe that "they" decided it was a better idea to shoot a missle and cover it up to look like a plane crash than it would be to just crash a plane (especially when "they" would have already crashed 2 planes into the WTC). Under no circumstances that I can think of would this make sense; therefore, I can not believe that is what happened.

If someone can tell me a scenario where that would make sense, then maybe I could change my mind, but I honestly believe there isn't one.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by earthdude

Originally posted by SubPop79
If you call that first hand knowledge, then what I call "first hand knowledge" are the testimonials of many neighbors who saw the plane on their commutes to work when they were all stuck in traffic going to D.C and the surrounding area, including my former boss who saw it hit on his way to the Capitol Hill Club.

Saw what hit where? There were no commuters watching the pentagon. Your boss has xray and telescopic vision?

False. In this compilation of eyewitness accounts there are several by people in vehicles, stuck in traffic etc :-

911research.wtc7.net...

It looks like you are right, for some reason I thought few people saw the plane. I chose one randomly. Looked at the room they were in. Google earthed everything, assuming the pentagon is in the right place. So If anyone has a no plane theory, call this lady in Wisconsin, she saw the plane.
Anlauf, Deb & Jeff

Mrs. Deb Anlauf, resident of Colfax, Wisconsin, was in her 14th floor of the Sheraton Hotel [located 1.6 mile from the explosion], (immediately west of the Navy Annex) when she heard a "loud roar": Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook. (...) Jeff didn't feel the impact of the plane crash as directly as his wife. He was attending an environmental meeting on the second floor of the hotel when the plane struck the Pentagon. About five seconds before the crash, Jeff said he heard the sound of "tin being dropped," likely as construction workers building an addition to the hotel saw the plane and dropped their building materials. "Then, about 5 seconds later, the whole hotel shook," Jeff recalled. "I could feel it moving. We said 'Oh, my gosh, what's going on?' "
www.leadertelegram.com...

reply to post by jhn7537

The Pentagon is one of the most guarded buildings in our country, it houses our countries defense... Do you honestly believe there isnt a security camera out there that wouldnt have had a clear view of what happened that day?

It's mainly an office building. It's not guarded as tightly as they want you to believe.
Plus if they are so omnipitant they would have known about the possibility of IED's before they wen into Iraq.

I understand that most of those tapes belonged to private businesses. And as such they do not have the right to release them.
Also crews were in the process of working on that wedge. Were the cameras functional on that side at that time?
You assume they are lying. But history has shown they are not that good at coverups.

reply to post by samkent


So do you believe not one camera caught the plane hitting the Pentagon? And say there was footage, do you believe they would have released by now to the public?