I have first-hand knowledge that no plane crashed into the Pentagon

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by splitlevel

 

Well... Okay. It was an interesting chat until I must follow you to the place where every nation in the world is lead by incompetent fools...except our own.

It's going to really tear me up to watch my nation lose a war and lose HARD. This attitude of looking down on everyone else on Earth like they exist to serve the needs of the Western Powers is too much though.

Iran is among the best Intelligence services...outside of Super-Powers...in the world. Do they compare to CIA or SVR? Of course not. They cannot hold a candle the the People's Liberation Army/Navy intelligence in China either.

Outside of the SUPER powers....Yes, in fact...Iran is very capable. Iraq came a breath from killing Bush in Kuwait and Clinton sent Missiles into Iraq to thank Saddam for the kind thoughts and effort. Recall?

Oh...and Libya may have had a madman and nutjob leading them, but no nutjob brought down 103 over Scotland and nutcases didn't keep that nation running smooth and at peace for decades in a neighborhood where that is almost unheard of.

If it's easier to just say they are simple minded idiots though, and so, totally irrelevant to anything we 'intelligent' people might be talking about...so be it. I'll catch ya on another thread maybe, In the mean time. Of course.. They can't be saying anything about the most important conspiracies of modern history because they're either too stupid to know the truth..or too outright terrified of the might Uncle Sam to so much as whisper it.

Indeed.. that must be it.

"anything we 'intelligent' people might be talking about" hahaha I thought so, but not me, just a civilian hahaha.
As I said Iran may have a reliable intelligence agency especially as its partnered with Russia, China.. The 103 over Scotland was blown up before everyone had to take their shoes off, so no it wouldn't take a genius back then...so i highly dispute your claim there.
Iraq again I disagree highly with u, Saddam was no more than a mobster who got to the top. Bush wasnt out to Invade Iraq or dispose Saddam in gulf war 1, it was simply to repel him from his invasion of Quate. Nice try with ur histroy lessons, Iraq did oil deals etc back in the day with Bush snr if i recall before Gulf war 1, when they fell out .
You are the only superpower, yes, is the world afraid of you? A lot of it is, indeed. However you still have significant obsticles AKA China, before your NWO is complete. lets hope the Chinese rule us before the Americans do, as I think what little respect for human rights that will come with the Chinese masters will be higher than what i can see cumming if the U.S. gets it all its own way, plus im sick of burgers and prefer the chinese food.

reply to post by shortsticks


and I am friends with an eye-witness who saw the plane hit the Pentagon. I guess I am friends with a dis-info agent and am non-the-wiser??You are a loon to think otherwise. Just what do you think happened to the missing aircraft, crew and passengers anyway? Were they on that missile you think it was?
..loon.

hi all,

a very good video, raises lots of questions and looks close at all of the video...

9/11 In Plane Sight - Directors Cut
www.youtube.com...

hi all,

let me share something else...

all of the fake osama vids...


did you know he did not do 9/11?

in fact he was cia back in the 80's, used to fight the russians...


hugs for him, he got played....

sorry bro..

learn, forgive, evolve

Guide for DUMMIES - CIA & Their Fake Osama Videos
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Alfie1

alfie, here is something you do not know. or will not admit. the crew of the c130 took off from a nearby af airbase 10 minutes after all US air was shut down. interesting.
they immediately cruised over to the pentagon. secure base. they were supposed to be headed to their base in the midwest. this crew was celebrated in the local AF paper.
most likely conclusion... they were given a flight path and 757 parts to dump on the pentagon grounds from a crash of an AA flight in , i think, venezuala. there were jungle weeds in the parts.

the hole in the pentagon was 12 feet or less and at ground level. there were no marks on the pentagon corresponding to the position of 6 ton engines at half thrust of 6 tons and 6 tons of 10000 rpm angular momentum and titanium rotor shafts etc. there is an acre of sheet aluminum in a 757. not visible in the immediate photos of the aftermath. etc.


alfie, wise up.

reply to post by splitlevel

Iraq again I disagree highly with u, Saddam was no more than a mobster who got to the top. Bush wasnt out to Invade Iraq or dispose Saddam in gulf war 1, it was simply to repel him from his invasion of Quate. Nice try with ur histroy lessons, Iraq did oil deals etc back in the day with Bush snr if i recall before Gulf war 1, when they fell out .

Well, first on this, I wasn't talking about the war per say and certainly nothing about the reasons or basis for the first Gulf War. I watched it live on TV. Thanks for the reminder that it's a history lesson to some. (ouch). I was talking about the fact that Saddam Hussein ordered his intelligence service to assassinate George H.W. Bush in Kuwait on a visit he made as Former President Bush. That is an example of one way that the Iraqi Security Services were quite capable and no joke.

You are the only superpower, yes, is the world afraid of you? A lot of it is, indeed. However you still have significant obsticles AKA China, before your NWO is complete. lets hope the Chinese rule us before the Americans do, as I think what little respect for human rights that will come with the Chinese masters will be higher than what i can see cumming if the U.S. gets it all its own way, plus im sick of burgers and prefer the chinese food.

Ouch... China is better eh? Is that why the second largest illegal immigration problem the United States has is illegal smuggling of human beings out of Mainland China? They are DYING to get here in a way Mexicans rarely know in any sense. Literally. China is that superior to our system eh? Well.. to each their own and I hope that works well for you. I'd just note a BIG fact here about how LITTLE China sees for illegal immigration among those trying to sneak INTO their nation. Oh.. North Korea would be the exception, but that is hardly a bragging point.


There is just one other thing here. The whole point to this line of discussion is the idea that other world intelligence agencies wouldn't share the 'truth' of these big conspiracy theories because they aren't capable or competent to ferret out the truth? That is one of the points of argument here as I've been reading it. Aren't you finding the least bit of Irony that this is coming from a crowd of average computer users on their PC's on a net forum?

So.....The world's intelligence services like Iraq, Libya and others are inferior to the point of bumbling idiocy.....but we, the members of ATS..and other forums on the internet....WE know the truth much better. So well, we can say..and know (?) that they don't? Hmmm..

Yeah... I'm not getting there in my mental gymnastics. I just don't bend or twist that far. Underestimating an enemy has led to more defeats of MAJOR military forces than any other single factor in human history. That is a cold fact...and I fear it's happening again on a scale they'll be teaching in class rooms many generations into the future.

Originally posted by splitlevel
if some Israelis were found in a truck loaded with explosives under the Washington bridge on 9/11 and were arrested but never put on trial and released back to Israel 70 days later.

What does that one fact tell you?

That some people will believe anything that plays to their bigotry. Please.

This story has less going for it than the OP of this thread!

Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer
reply to post by antonia

 

I think you're wrong.

In all countries where the Berne Convention standards apply, copyright is automatic, and need not be obtained through official registration with any government office. Once an idea has been reduced to tangible form, for example by securing it in a fixed medium (such as a drawing, sheet music, photograph, a videotape, or a computer file), the copyright holder is entitled to enforce his or her exclusive rights.

link

Got any evidence or legal rulings to cite?

Sure! The Famous Paris Hilton sextape! It was found in an old storage unit. The owner was sued by Hilton, but the court refused to block the release because she didn't have the copyright. Strange considering she made it, but it was stated that since she didn't have the media she couldn't lay claim to it. This is how many stars lose out on stopping sex tapes.

However, this is all pointless as I am very certain there were more cameras on and around the pentagon than a few measly citgo black and white surveillance cameras. If the original poster in question was going to make an argument against releasing more footage he could have made a better one.

I am personally of the opinion a plane hit the building, but I still want more footage.

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
reply to post by grey580

 

Hey mate, I'm not claiming to know what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11, but a lot about the whole story reeks of something false. Plus TPTB are not helping themselves by refusing to release the footage from the upteen surveillance cameras around the building. This video may or may not be accurate but it sure as hell raises some interesting points:

In 2006 Citizen Investigation Team launched an independent investigation into the act of terrorism which took place at the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. This exhaustive three-year inquest involved multiple trips to the scene of the crime in Arlington, Virginia, close scrutiny of all official and unofficial data related to the event, and, most importantly, first-person interviews with dozens of eyewitnesses, many of which were conducted and filmed in the exact locations from which they witnessed the plane that allegedly struck the building that day.

edit on 18-4-2012 by Zcustosmorum because: (no reason given)

Wow, that's scary... May God help us all!

reply to post by antonia


You're just repeating yourself. I'd like more than assertions. some links to reputable reporting on the lawsuit that back up your claims would be nice.

It's funny how these theories completely ignore eyewitness testimony. You honestly think during rush hour in such a heavily populated area, NO ONE would have seen a JUMBO JET flying towards the Pentagon?

Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in."

A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball."

And so many more... but I suppose it's convenient to ignore the testimony if it casts doubt on your wild theories huh? I loved the "professional" research done to try and disprove the I don't know how many dozens of eyewitness reports. They covered far less than half of the people, and for many, it had ridiculous comments like "this person has been known to exaggerate." Yea.. top-notch investigative work there. All solid eyewitness reports were conveniently ignored.

Tell me - if YOU saw a commercial airlines flying overhead - even if it was for only 5 seconds.. do you think you could 100% positively identify it as such? I know I could. And most thinking adults could. Probably in 2 seconds.. almost certainly in 3.. I know my brain could easily identify a jumbo jet as such.

But go ahead with these ridiculous theories and inane threads - someone says they saw no wreckage, and it garners already close to 30 pages. Even though there was obvious debris scattered across the lawn taped within minutes after the crash. And within the building. And many eyewitnesses. No.. let's just assume there was no plane at all, because somehow that makes "sense."

To the OP:

1. Can you show definitive proof you were at the Pentagon? A form of ID would be helpful (considering you seem to have had "all-access")

2. You mention that you have knowledge that no plane hit the Pentagon. Could you explain the official and unofficial sources that refute your claims?

3. You mention you were there a day later (September 12, 2001), saying that the hole was small and still intact until it later crumbled. Can you explain the timeline that shows the hole crumbled in about an hour after impact, on September 11th?

4. Can you answer the questions, instead of ignoring them and resorting to an attack?

I would just like to note, I didn't get very far into the thread because it regressed into a war of words between the OP and virtually every other poster on the thread.

Originally posted by darkstar57
reply to post by Alfie1

 

alfie, here is something you do not know. or will not admit. the crew of the c130 took off from a nearby af airbase 10 minutes after all US air was shut down. interesting.
they immediately cruised over to the pentagon. secure base. they were supposed to be headed to their base in the midwest. this crew was celebrated in the local AF paper.
most likely conclusion... they were given a flight path and 757 parts to dump on the pentagon grounds from a crash of an AA flight in , i think, venezuala. there were jungle weeds in the parts.

the hole in the pentagon was 12 feet or less and at ground level. there were no marks on the pentagon corresponding to the position of 6 ton engines at half thrust of 6 tons and 6 tons of 10000 rpm angular momentum and titanium rotor shafts etc. there is an acre of sheet aluminum in a 757. not visible in the immediate photos of the aftermath. etc.


alfie, wise up.

According to Lt Col O'Brien, pilot of the C130, he took off from Andrews Air Force Base at about 9.30 am en-route to deliver supplies in the Caribbean before returning to Minnesota. It is likely therefore that he was not aware of the FAA take-off ban, issued at 9.26 am, before he took off. In any event, it is moot because the ban applied to civilian aircraft not military.

Within minutes of take-off he was asked by Air Traffic Control at Reagan National Airport to look out for AA 77 and then to turn and follow it which he did. This, unlike your stuff can actually be substantiated :-

www.historycommons.org...

The rest you seem to have made up as you went along. Are you seriously suggesting this large aircraft made a bombing run over the Pentagon lawn dropping Boeing 757 parts ? Even managing the feat of getting some deep within the Pentagon and all with no-one noticing ??? And then the icing on the cake, you think the parts came from Venezuala because they had "jungle weeds " in them !!!!!!

You think I need to wise-up.

Originally posted by splitlevel
Why were the Israelis in the truck full of explosives not put on trial but instead released back to Israel?

Because that claim is just another truther lie - it never happened...

As long as nobody is even willing to answer that one question.

It has been answered - here is a question for you

"Why do people make up and post such lies"

reply to post by shortsticks


Many eyewitness accounts claim to have seen airplane parts on the day you claim there were none. Sorry, assuming it is a government conspiracy you don't think they would have accounted for that and had parts there? I'm calling you out as a liar, regardless of what really happened, you are a liar.

Originally posted by spoor

"Why do people make up and post such lies"

I would say it is for the attention. Look no further than the original post of this thread. We are over 31 pages in, and nothing new has come out of it only bickering and arguing. I believe that was the OP's intent.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by shortsticks

 

I'm calling you out as a liar, regardless of what really happened, you are a liar.

Considering every claim the OP made was refuted, and considering the only defense is an insult or the ever exciting "I was there" statement, I would have to agree with you that the OP has lied. Given the rules of the forums, I question why the thread still exists.

reply to post by DiscoveryOfTruth


Honestly, if you were to go back through all the Truther threads, 99% of them contain debunked BS and deliberate lies.

I think there's a kind of mindset: if reality doesn't fit your ideology, lie.

But when you consider he's lied about the death of a lot of Americans, and been aggressive to anyone that called him on his lie, yeah, I'd say ban hammer time.

Then again I also think there should be ONE master Truther thread... and it should be modded by a sceptic of the Truther movement, so that the same debunked lies aren't posted a million times... then maybe their movement could be taken a bit more seriously...

Because, if they had any evidence, any at all, people like me, would listen... I've read hundreds, thousands, of truther threads, watched the videos, read dozens of papers, and done my research... and so far... no evidence, but a bunch of often ridiculous speculation...

Originally posted by ilian51378

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
reply to post by grey580

 

Hey mate, I'm not claiming to know what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11, but a lot about the whole story reeks of something false. Plus TPTB are not helping themselves by refusing to release the footage from the upteen surveillance cameras around the building. This video may or may not be accurate but it sure as hell raises some interesting points:

In 2006 Citizen Investigation Team launched an independent investigation into the act of terrorism which took place at the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. This exhaustive three-year inquest involved multiple trips to the scene of the crime in Arlington, Virginia, close scrutiny of all official and unofficial data related to the event, and, most importantly, first-person interviews with dozens of eyewitnesses, many of which were conducted and filmed in the exact locations from which they witnessed the plane that allegedly struck the building that day.

edit on 18-4-2012 by Zcustosmorum because: (no reason given)

Wow, that's scary... May God help us all!

Perhaps you and Zcustosmorum aren't aware of it but CIT are pretty much persona non grata even in trutherdom these days :-

scienceof911.com.au...

Even Richard Gage has washed his hands of them.

reply to post by Alfie1


Good link - and it illustrates yet again how often the ironically named "Truth movement" lies to try and prove some meaningless point.