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George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

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posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by Deranged74
 


With the overwhelming number of people who have already tried and convicted Zimmerman in their minds, the only way to bring any neutrality into this discussion is to point out the other possibilities and plausible scenarios. Doesn't mean we are taking sides either way. I believe they both made some pretty stupid moves, the rub is to determine who initiated the physical altercation. Forensic evidence is something we don't have yet, but could shed a lot more light on the case. If Zimmerman was on Trayvon's back, and Trayvon was lying face down, that would most likely indicate he shot him in the back and forensic evidence would easily prove that. However, if he was on top of Zimmerman, and he shot him upward, facing him, then rolled out from under him as Trayvon fell forward, that should be clear with the bullet wound as well.




posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

My point is that with out bias there is NO WAY anyone could defend Zimmerman. By our very nature and common sense, we should ascertain that since Trayvon was unarmed, WHERE did the need to shoot him enter the equation? ...
To go the other route...and jump to conclusions that "Trayvon must have done ???" shows some type of bias. .


Actually you are showing bias here. Your conclusion is based upon spin and hype from the MSM. People assuming Martin did something wrong are jumping to conclusions ... but for you to make a blanket statement that Zimmerman must be wrong because Martin was unarmed .. that's also jumping to conclusions. Unarmed people jump others all the time. Armed or not. We don't know if Martin was aware that Zimmerman was armed. We don't know anything. Heck .. even Martins mother today said that she thought the whole thing was an accident.

Bottom line ... we do not know what happened. The trial will be the only place to find out.

edit on 4/12/2012 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)




No I am not showing bias. I broke it down to the barest fundamentals we know.

We know that a 28 year old, 200+lb man found it necessary to shoot a 17 year old 140 lb teen! The man was armed and the teen wasn't.

Trayvon's mother wasn't referring to the shooting as an accident but rather Zimmerman choosing to approach Trayvon.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by Wiz4769
reply to post by DZAG Wright
 


Stop throwing around the word unbiased...cause you sure as hell are not.

You were not there, he did not know he was not armed, for all you know Trayvon reached in his pocket like he was armed, I have seen this done before, a bluff to get out of a situation, or reached for his phone. You dont have time to think for too long, if you do you might just die...its real easy to look at it after the point in your cushy computer chair, but when your in an actual fight or flight situation, you have no clue and instincts kick in. You can kill with just hands, quite easily. No weapon is needed. His age is 17, but he was bigger than Zimmerman. But this doesnt even matter as size does not always matter, I know some light weight MMA fighters that are 5ft and 120lbs that could kill you or hurt you badly and quickly. So with what is known so far, an unbiased would want more info and some questions need to be answered, but in no way can you consider Zimmerman guilty of murder, that is emotion and bias.




Your use of the statement "for all you know..." shows bias. It's exactly what I'm referring too. With just the basics of the case we have...any unbiased person without a dog in the fight would think Zimmerman has some explaining to do. That can't be denied!

I've been in plenty of fight or flight situations (with other grown men who were heavier) and it NEVER entered into my head I may have to shoot them to keep from dying!

And Trayvon was not "bigger" than Zimmerman, taller yes...but he weighed 140lbs. I weigh 180 lbs now and I don't care if it's Floyd Mayweather, he isn't going to whip me! No there's not a 120lb MMA fighter that's going to stand a chance against me...

You are correct that a unbiased opinion would want more information, but that's not what we're seeing from the pro-Zimmerman sideline. From that side of the field all I see is "he must have...", "but Trayvon was..." all a bunch of deflections and sidesteps.

That is what's showing the racism (even though it isn't really racism I mean but rather culture war).



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by DZAG Wright
 


Trayvon was a 6 foot 2" 17 year old "child" who played american football




Him playing football means what? I played American football. My neighbor who is 16 plays football and he can't whip me to the point I'd have to shoot him!

Trayvon was a 6'2" bean pole!!!!



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
reply to post by 27jd
 


How was a grown man weaker than a 17 year old kid, and the kid playing football means nothing...

Sorry, but this made me chuckle.

I have known quite a few 'grown' men that are completely out of shape. Being 'grown' does not equate with being strong. It also has nothing to do with being fast or flexible.

Strong, fast and flexible has a whole lot to do with who wins a physical altercation.

Do you realize that football is a game that emphasizes physical fitness, especially stamina and strength?
edit on 12-4-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)




Was Trayvon a All American recruit for the position of linebacker? Who cares he played football, my daughter enjoys playing the game as well...could she whip you?

Football emphasizes physical fitness for PROFESSIONAL athletes. Playing JV or even Varsity high school football isn't a professional. I'm sure there are many ex high school football players even at this site.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
the only crime trayvon was that he looked like a "suspicious thug". i guess some people would like every "suspicious looking thug" followed and harrased. newsflash this is not the wild wild west or the jim crow law south.


No, the crime was if/when Trayvon physically assaulted a man for following him. It is NOT a crime to follow somebody you think is suspicious, it may be stupid but not illegal.




We have to jump to conclusions and show bias if we assume Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman however. That's what I mean when I ask what's wrong with people, are they showing racism or classism?

It is a crime to escolate a confrontation to a fight and then shoot the other person because you are losing...ask an officer here in Florida.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by Cdaddy1034
reply to post by ButterCookie
 


Not picking on you or anything. And I say this at the risk of sounding racist (which I am most definitely not.)

But I don't feel sorry for all those black kids being killed... It's a culture issue, and until that issue is solved from within, there is frankly nothing that can be done. This is what happens when you allow your children to think doing anything to make money, including selling drugs, and violent acts is ok, because in the end you made money to put food on the table.

The problem is not with the lack of action by anybody but the parents of these kids that are doing the killing (not always the ones being killed, but some of the time at least.) Is it tragic yes... it's tragic that this particular culture encourages this type of behavior.




You're still not addressing the root cause of the culture issue. What you addressed is also a symptom. The cause of the issue, most Americans want to hide their heads in the sand or scream, "Oh come on get over it!"



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by Deranged74
 


I know many people that would not have to fight at all, what is your point?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by Wiz4769
What is your definition of neighborhood watch? What part of watching the neighborhood do you not get? If I see somebody walking with a hoody up in the rain at night, which you cant even see his race at that point...I would pay attention at least as I went by, to say your all trusting of all people no matter how they look at any time of day and location is well stupid. Maybe alot of you are not old enough to own your own house and appreciate your city and neighborhood, but it takes hard work and community to keep it that way, they had break ins just before. This does not mean he deserved to be shot, so dont even think about twisting it that way. But to say that might, just might not look suspicious is only lying to us and yourself, or just to us. There is lots of room between paranoid and naive, sorry you cant trust everyone and there are tons of deaths and attacks , way more than this self defense type happen every day. If your not smart on the street, and be aware of your surroundings, your asking for trouble. So stop with the whole he didnt even need to even look in his direction crap and work more towards what happened after the fact would be my advice.




No he should have approached Trayvon as a responsible, adult by introducing himself and the entire tragedy could have been avoided. That's what many people are also over looking.

For instance i would have "Hello sir, my name is ________ and I'm the neighborhood watch, how are you this evening?"

Do you not see how that would have defused any possible problems? Yet, everyone wants to lump it on the kid that he should have just instantly bowed to this stranger following him. This alone makes Zimmerman deservant of a prison term.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by DavidWillts
 


reply to post by DavidWillts
 


My point is zim is a punk regardless of who attacked who. Guy is a sorry excuse for a man. If you wanna play cop, security, bouncer dedicate a little time to keeping in shape and preparing yourself for the job and not depending on using a gun when another smaller person is unarmed.

trayvon = beanpole
edit on 12-4-2012 by Deranged74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
911 told him we dont need you to follow him, he says ok. its on the 911 call if you havent heard.


Yes, Zimmerman said okay. And according to him he was headed back to his SUV when Trayvon confronted him. Which seems to correspond with what his girlfriend said, that Trayvon said he was going to confront him. And again, the 9-1-1 rep did not issue a lawful command, he was under no obligation to follow their suggestion anymore than if a credit card customer service rep made it. Saying we don't need you to do something, isn't the same as saying don't do something. Citizens are empowered to make arrests, although according to Zimmerman he was not pursuing him from that point, I wasn't there so I don't know, but what I do know is whomever initiated physical contact first, was who was most responsible for the incident. We don't know who that was for sure one way or the other.



Don't tell that lie! His girlfriend said Trayvon said he wouldn't run but walk fast.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by Wiz4769
What is your definition of neighborhood watch? What part of watching the neighborhood do you not get? If I see somebody walking with a hoody up in the rain at night, which you cant even see his race at that point...I would pay attention at least as I went by, to say your all trusting of all people no matter how they look at any time of day and location is well stupid. Maybe alot of you are not old enough to own your own house and appreciate your city and neighborhood, but it takes hard work and community to keep it that way, they had break ins just before. This does not mean he deserved to be shot, so dont even think about twisting it that way. But to say that might, just might not look suspicious is only lying to us and yourself, or just to us. There is lots of room between paranoid and naive, sorry you cant trust everyone and there are tons of deaths and attacks , way more than this self defense type happen every day. If your not smart on the street, and be aware of your surroundings, your asking for trouble. So stop with the whole he didnt even need to even look in his direction crap and work more towards what happened after the fact would be my advice.




No he should have approached Trayvon as a responsible, adult by introducing himself and the entire tragedy could have been avoided. That's what many people are also over looking.

For instance i would have "Hello sir, my name is ________ and I'm the neighborhood watch, how are you this evening?"

Do you not see how that would have defused any possible problems? Yet, everyone wants to lump it on the kid that he should have just instantly bowed to this stranger following him. This alone makes Zimmerman deservant of a prison term.


Exactly,, all he had to do was say im neighborhood watch and played it cool..

Instead he had his mind already made up!!! The these assholes always get away and punk statements in the 911 calls show his mindset. And those statements will play a role on the jurys thoughts

He had trayvon pre judged at the moment he made those comments, shame on anyone denying that
edit on 12-4-2012 by Deranged74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by DavidWillts
 


"White man's education"? really?
Either you are educated or you are not. Unless you view voodoo as some type of education.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by goarfang
reply to post by GmoS719
 


I'd have to say your either uniformed, dumb or simpley naive. If they had enuff to arrest Ziemmerman in Febuary they would have done so. If he was so guilty then why did NBC, & CBS both have to post and say how sorry they where for editing the facts to enclude video. Why did they remove all of martins facebook,myspace,and twitter accounts and have a court order to seal his schools records. School records that we know showed that he was at the end of a 10 day suspsion for drugs and burglary items. Killing someone is bad but convicting someone for political gain is a travisty.




It's the reason for the entire stink!!!

Why did the DA instruct the police department (who recommended arrest) not to arrest and detain Zimmerman?

All the things done you mention was because it's well known that people like you will look for any and every reason to turn a victim into an assailant.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
From everything I've read about this case, it seems that the real problem here is the vagueness of the Stand Your Ground laws.

I'd wager Zimmerman will get off...because the law as it is currently on the books, is EXTREMELY vague in clarifying what constitutes one feeling their life is in danger.

I think a lot of it will come down to who has the best legal eagles. On Zimmerman's side, I'd argue that the law states he has a right to protect himself, and he exercised that right. On the prosecution side, I'd argue that pursuing the suspect nullifies the Stand Your Ground claim.

My personal feeling is that this will end with a plea bargain of manslaughter.




Well the prosecutors I've heard commenting on the case state Zimmerman abandoned the SYG law when he exited his vehicle and pursued Trayvon.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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For anyone who missed the last warning...


There will be no more name-calling in this thread.

There will be no more personal attacks in this thread.


Debate the topic all you want, but keep it civil. You will not enjoy the results if not.

TheRedneck
ATS Forum Moderator



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by CoherentlyConfused
 




Something else many must have missed is that they also have new evidence that hasn't been released to the public. The whispers I'm hearing is that it's a video variety.




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