Ron Paul and Abortion " My thoughts" Please contribute

In all honestly, who cares about abortion at this point. Let some other president tackle this issue.

If the economy crashes because we weren't able to straighten this financial mess, is anyone really going to care about abortion?

"The article, published in the Journal of Medical Ethics, says newborn babies are not “actual persons” and do not have a “moral right to life”. The academics also argue that parents should be able to have their baby killed if it turns out to be disabled when it is born.

The journal’s editor, Prof Julian Savulescu, director of the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics, said the article's authors had received death threats since publishing the article. He said those who made abusive and threatening posts about the study were “fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society”.

The article, entitled “After-birth abortion: Why should the baby live?”, was written by two of Prof Savulescu’s former associates, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva.

They argued: “The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus in the sense that both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”

Rather than being “actual persons”, newborns were “potential persons”. They explained: “Both a fetus and a newborn certainly are human beings and potential persons, but neither is a ‘person’ in the sense of ‘subject of a moral right to life’. "

www.telegraph.co.uk...

This is the future! Sorry I had to post the whole thing because this is where you are heading, you have to see that... This is why you have to stand up for the rights of a baby! Because next they're coming after the toddlers! It's got sod all to do with religion in my opinion.

reply to post by MidnightTide


The economy has been designed to crash. It was always going to crash. It has throughout history, I'm surprised that it's lasted this long. And that's only because they keep borrowing more and more money to keep the thing afloat!

I get where you're coming from, they are both very important issues.

reply to post by yoyoyoyo


abortion is murder.

plain and simple.

anything else is denying the fundamental action of abortion... killing a potential human being prior to birth.

it is no more complicated than that... get pregnant, suffer the consequences, even in rape.

Originally posted by AaronWilson
Male masturbation then should be illegal. Every drop of semen is a potentially wasted life. Why not say the pill birthcontrol is murder? Its technically the same thing being an abortiocide and all.

Should periods be illegal?

Your argument doesn't make much sense.

reply to post by yoyoyoyo
Knowing Ron Paul for close to 30 years, he would first and foremost say that abortion is at some point wrong and murder but ultimately the right, decision and responsibility of the woman having the abortion but that it is wrong to involve others in that responsibility by expecting tax dollars to pay for it, which would in effect make every tax payer an accessory to abortion.

What so many don't get is if we were not all being feed on by the government, we would have money for the things we need. This of course does not apply to everyone but in a USA where free enterprise is allowed to flourish, there are more jobs, more opportunities for jobs and more money in the hands of individuals to help one another.

That is all I have to say on the subject. Is Abortion "Murder"..probably.

reply to post by MajorKarma


So are you saying then that ron paul advocates murder "probably"?

If there is the slightest hint that it is murder (of course it is), shouldn't it be punished as such? Murder is already highly unlawful last time I checked. You can't have the "right" or you can't make the "decision" or have "responsibility" to murder someone.

I'm a ron paul supporter, probably not any more... I can't advocate someone that thinks murder is someones right! What a crazy world we live in.

reply to post by MidnightTide



Who cares?

Gallup: 61 Percent Say All or Most Abortions Should Be Illegal

cnsnews.com...

The morning after pill stops you from ovulating, and thus, creating a human life, it is not an "abortion"

Originally posted by AaronWilson
Male masturbation then should be illegal. Every drop of semen is a potentially wasted life. Why not say the pill birthcontrol is murder? Its technically the same thing being an abortiocide and all.

Lol i love this argument/logic.

Nevermind the whole basis behind anti-abortion is the fact that they have already been conceived.

It sounds more like an illogical person clenching at straws to find some sort of argument.

You've even said it yourself! "Every drop of semen is a potentially wasted life" - "Potentially wasted"
Last time i checked webster's dictionary, "potentially" meant "possible", "eventual" or "capable of being but not yet in existence" - rather than;
"actual" or "concluding".

Now let's look at both our arguments.
Anti abortionists disagree with abortion by saying it's taking a life from this earth that has been conceived, or come into existence. i.e OP saying "Late abortion is disgusting" as it is taking a developing life.
Pro abortionists (or anti-anti abortionists - whichever category you put yourself in) disagree with anti-abortionists for the sake of arguing by saying "So does that mean masturbation is genocide?".

Which sounds more logical? We're (or at least, the OP and I) disagreeing with abortion because it is taking a life away. And for her to have admitted that she's already aborted, means she is at least willing to show some sort of humility and/or honesty.

Don't let illogic get in the way of an argument, and bring forth ACTUAL replies.

You'd be surprised to know i'm actually willing to hear them!

And this whole "disabled" argument.

Who's to say they are actually disabled? By actually, i mean "inside".

Are they disabled because they show physical abnormalities that can come in any form?

A person born with no arms is a physical abnormality - does that mean he cannot think for himself?

Apply this same argument to one with down syndrome. They show chemical abnormalities - does that mean he cannot at least partially think for himself?
How do we know?

You might as well compare yourself with hitler in saying "white skinned, blue eyed" people are normal. I'm not joking!
You are comparable to a savage because you believe you hold some sort of power in determining a "perfect individual".
How does your definition of something - that has been taught to you supersede an individual's existence?

Originally posted by AaronWilson
reply to post by yoyoyoyo

 

Thats not when a "baby" is produced. It takes many months for the being to form into a being you find similar to a child. Even then, when you see the heart beating, the baby moving, the baby "sucking on its thumb"; theirs nothing at work yet. Its running on instinct. Like an ant carrying supplies back to the nest. Even outside the womb for the first few months, it has to formulate its reality around it. Its not a conscious being and thus, is not present. (Break its bones it feels, but it wont remember those feelings.)

And you know this and can prove this how...?

reply to post by yoyoyoyo


Same ole story; somebody moralising and judging someone else.

Medical science has never proved anything other than a fetus reacts to a stimulus. There is absolutely no evidence that the fetus contained a human soul which felt the stimulus. It could easily have been nothing more than a nervous reaction to the stimulis by the mother.

I can see these people going one step further and claiming that women who do not have a kids are murderers because by not having kids they denied a child from having a life.

These people are nut cases

me and my girlfriend are thinking about an abortion at this moment in time. im 20 and she is 19 we are not ready for a child, nor do we have the income to support a child. i would feel more bad about having a child born with parents who cant support it then it not be born at all.

reply to post by yoyoyoyo


Ron paul thinks abortion is wrong but doesnt think the federal govt should regulate it. It should be up to the states. Ron paul doesnt legislate based on his feelings about something he limits it to what is constitutional. My wife and i are prolife but what our neighbors due when they get pregnant is up to them. Not sure why people think we should have laws to enforce their personal opinions.

When should it constitute murder? When a fetus if extracted that day could survive on its own. I would have it a federal issue at 21 weeks and the statez can regulate anything else.

reply to post by yoyoyoyo


Why don't you worry about finding a job above minimum wage instead?

You act like abortion is the worst thing to happen to this world.

Religion and war are 1000x worse. Do you sanction both?

I had an abortion four years ago and have since had two full term pregnancies. It was a cop out and I will always regret it.
I have dreams about her. She was a sweet little girl with dark hair and blue eyes, in the dreams I am always trying to remember her name, but I never can because she never got the privilege of having one. Now I have two sons and mourn the daughter I will never have.
If any good came of it it was the fact that I learned my from my decision and when I became pregnant with my second when my first was a mere two months old knew I would have to roll up my sleeves raise my two babies because I had promised myself and the creator that I would never again have an abortion.
Thank God for the children I have, they have made my life richer and more meaningful than anything ever could.
I am sure my little girls soul will one day find a new body to grow in and experience life but she is missing out on this valuable life experience now and due to my hasty and selfish decision it will take her soul longer to work through its karma and graduate to a higher existence.
Having had an abortion I have no place to judge others for having them... we all have to live with our own decisions.
I can only say that I have both had an abortion and had children, one act is selfish and evil the other selfless and the closest to the divine that it gets. Its not hard to guess which is which.

reply to post by yoyoyoyo

75% percent of anti-abortion leaders are men

Hmmmmm.... I wonder why...maybe because men have no say in it whatsoever if the child should live or die? BTW I support Ron Paul only if it's honest rape, put the ho-bags in their place.

If you want an answer to the abortion question, just look to the IRS.

Was the baby born before January 1st?
No. You get no tax credit, for all we care that secondary human inside you doesn't exist.
Yes. Congrats! You can claim a dependant on your taxes!

I know, it's sick and twisted but it's reality.

I think after six weeks it should be illegal.
Should not be covered by insurance.