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Originally posted by ArrowsNV
You really live up to your screen name.
I don't see why people like you just don't seem to understand that the evolution and religion can peacefully coexist.
Wheras Religion/Philosophy is the search for WHY we are here and if there is life after we pass from this plane of existence. In actuality it may be a bit more complicated than that, but for the most part that is what it boils down to.
Plus, do you have concrete evidence to back up your theory? No. So don't talk like you're right and everyone else is wrong, especially on this topic.
Darwin himself wasn't even an atheist like most atheists claim, he believed in a higher power. Did he go to church? Maybe not after writing "On the Origin of Species" but in 1879 he wrote that "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God." He claimed himself to be agnostic.
1. ag·nos·tic noun ag-ˈnäs-tik, əg-
Definition of AGNOSTIC
1
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
Even Darwin admitted the possibility of there being a higher power.
He didn't go around claiming what he had observed was FACT. It is called the THEORY of Evolution for a reason.
And he also didn't go around belittling those who choose to see solace in organized religion.
Unless you're your some sort of freak who has a 500mil+ year lifespan then don't go around being a dick and saying everyone else is wrong, because you really don't know for sure.
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Right, so they have to pay to go to a private school, to keep from having their rights violated. Hm...kinda reminds me of Nazi Germany. The picture you're painting of yourself is that you're all for totalitarianism.
I think there's a rule on ATS about name calling.
You may want to grow up and watch yourself. What I DO know FOR SURE, is there is absolutely no evidence WHATSOEVER to back up the existence of a God(s) of any religion, ever.
Originally posted by paradox
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Right, so they have to pay to go to a private school, to keep from having their rights violated. Hm...kinda reminds me of Nazi Germany. The picture you're painting of yourself is that you're all for totalitarianism.
It's called separation of church and state.
Churches and private schools can preach religion. That's what they are for. We do not want that disease in our state owned public school system.
Originally posted by Daemonicon
reply to post by ArrowsNV
Minor point: The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
You are correct that the term 'separation of church and state' does not appear in the Constitution, however, this text above would say the same thing. If the congress cannot make a low for, or against a religion, I would say this is equal to a wall between the church and the State. My 2 cents anyway.
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by wildtimes
Freedom of religion means ALL religions: Wiccan, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, WBC, whatever. Having it rammed down your throat is not "freedom of choice."
Um, yes you do have the freedom of choice. You have the freedom to walk away as fast as your legs can carry you, or the right to stick your fingers in your ears, or the right to just tune him out.
Ramming it down your throat is what the Jesuits did in the Spanish Inquisition, quite literally. This guy isn't ramming it down your throat, thats you being melodramatic.
Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical
There is no "Freedom FROM religion" clause in the first amendment.
What?!!
Seriously???
It is directly stated as a choice that people have a right to make: to practice whatever "religion" they want to, OR NONE AT ALL.
Freedom of religion means ALL religions: Wiccan, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, WBC, whatever. Having it rammed down your throat is not "freedom of choice."
sigh. NuT....really??
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Ex_CT2
I believe I heard the cop say that they were not allowed to preach there because it was a "captive audience." That I can understand. Now if they had tazed him or assaulted him, that would be a different thing.
Captive? I saw no chains nor ropes or anything of the sort preventing them from exiting the premises. In my agnostic days if it were me and i didn't want to hear it, i would have just left without a care in the world as simple as you please.
Perhaps children who are christian or jew don't want to have evolution "rammed" down their throats in public schools, yet they are forced to sit there and hear it anyway which is a violation of not just their rights but their parents rights, they too are also a captive audience because the federal government requires them to attend school so in effect the government is forcing them to listen to a teacher preach them evolution even if it against their religious beliefs. Can you say violation of rights?
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
You simply don't get it. If a person is free to leave of their own volition and choice its not in any way shape or form a "captive" audience. Losing a place in line is a matter of convenience. No one was forcing the people to stay in line by coercion or force.
They all were free to leave anytime they chose to do so.
If the man was yammering on about scooby-doo
Not trying to strike you down, but the cop in this case was not in the legal right to tell him where he can and cannot preach (see my last post for the legal precedent). Just because he's a police officer doesn't mean he's right.
Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by wildtimes
Freedom of religion means ALL religions: Wiccan, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, WBC, whatever. Having it rammed down your throat is not "freedom of choice."
Um, yes you do have the freedom of choice. You have the freedom to walk away as fast as your legs can carry you, or the right to stick your fingers in your ears, or the right to just tune him out.
Ramming it down your throat is what the Jesuits did in the Spanish Inquisition, quite literally. This guy isn't ramming it down your throat, thats you being melodramatic.
Well... The people were at the DMV, probably had another long day of waiting to renew their licenses, so, it is a captive audience. Yes, they could have left, but if they did leave, their position on line would've been taken. The sole purpose they were even at the DMV was to use the DMV's services.
2nd point: the man was asked nicely to leave/stop; he blatantly ignored the security guard and continued.
3rd point: the police officer did read the preacher his Miranda Right's, maybe not as soon as he handcuffed him, but as the preacher was getting into the back of car.
4th point: what good would the preacher have done to those listening if he read the bible from which the audience does not know indepth? How does the preacher's 5 minutes of action help lead others to God? Did the preacher lead others to a personal relationship with God through Christ? No, he was laughed at by the bystanders.
5th point: the officer TELLS the man, you can go to a street corner, but not at that location.
6th point: i personally believe the arrest was way too quick. I think the police officer should have explained the law clearer, I know that's a lot to ask for from the people that enforce it.
7th point: Romans 13:1-7.
Im pro-christianity but this was just an embarrassment. i think this is just going to stir up the imminent anti-religion/christianity persecution.
Originally posted by tracehd1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
This isn't about religion but the freedom of speech!
Originally posted by spyder550
What if someone came stood at the door and read letters to Penthouse. Same thing.
Originally posted by spyder550
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
You simply don't get it. If a person is free to leave of their own volition and choice its not in any way shape or form a "captive" audience. Losing a place in line is a matter of convenience. No one was forcing the people to stay in line by coercion or force.
They all were free to leave anytime they chose to do so.
How are they free to leave?
So those people were conducting their business with the DMV in the DMV's parking lot?
Originally posted by spyder550
Where else are they going to do thier business they where there to conduct business -- you are suggesting that they could have moved to the front of any random store and conducted the same business.
Originally posted by Daemonicon
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Why can we not get past this 'missing link' and 'it's only a theory' bull?
Here are your 'missing links' for humans. Notice a nice, gradual evolution? Here are many examples, I am sure, you will ignore.
Denisova hominin
H. antecessor
H. cepranensis
H. erectus
H. ergaster
H. floresiensis
H. gautengensis
H. georgicus
H. habilis
H. heidelbergensis
H. neanderthalensis
H. rhodesiensis
H. rudolfensis
H. sapiens idaltu
H. sapiens sapiens (modern humans)
As for 'it's only a theory', from dictionary.com:
the·o·ry
[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee] Show IPA
noun, plural the·o·ries.
1.
a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine.
Any more low hanging fruit you would like to discuss?edit on 6-4-2012 by Daemonicon because: (no reason given)edit on 6-4-2012 by Daemonicon because: EDIT for spelling
You simply don't get it. If a person is free to leave of their own volition and choice its not in any way shape or form a "captive" audience. Losing a place in line is a matter of convenience. No one was forcing the people to stay in line by coercion or force.
They all were free to leave anytime they chose to do so.