Man arrested for reading the Holy Bible in public

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Originally posted by SmellyPants

At least I don't have to stoop to name calling to prove my point. As I have posted plenty of legal proof as to why this man should not have been arrested.

Take your legal proof and shove it where the sun don't shine. I follow my gut, not some silly 'proof'.But yeah, you're right, you just tell people to grow up and say they act like 4 year olds, lol. Guess you are totally above board and beyond reproach. A pure and chaste saint. Or just a person, whose sh*t stinks like the rest of us. Or doesn't yours?

No, of course not. It smells like a beautiful mountain breeze with hints of flowers and once it even smelled like I had walked into JC Penny's perfume section.

Do police follow your gut when they arrest people? I'd love to see that trial.

Originally posted by ArrowsNV

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Freedom of religion means ALL religions: Wiccan, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, WBC, whatever. Having it rammed down your throat is not "freedom of choice."

Um, yes you do have the freedom of choice. You have the freedom to walk away as fast as your legs can carry you, or the right to stick your fingers in your ears, or the right to just tune him out.

Ramming it down your throat is what the Jesuits did in the Spanish Inquisition, quite literally. This guy isn't ramming it down your throat, thats you being melodramatic.

Well... The people were at the DMV, probably had another long day of waiting to renew their licenses, so, it is a captive audience. Yes, they could have left, but if they did leave, their position on line would've been taken. The sole purpose they were even at the DMV was to use the DMV's services.

2nd point: the man was asked nicely to leave/stop; he blatantly ignored the security guard and continued.

3rd point: the police officer did read the preacher his Miranda Right's, maybe not as soon as he handcuffed him, but as the preacher was getting into the back of car.

4th point: what good would the preacher have done to those listening if he read the bible from which the audience does not know indepth? How does the preacher's 5 minutes of action help lead others to God? Did the preacher lead others to a personal relationship with God through Christ? No, he was laughed at by the bystanders.

5th point: the officer TELLS the man, you can go to a street corner, but not at that location.

6th point: i personally believe the arrest was way too quick. I think the police officer should have explained the law clearer, I know that's a lot to ask for from the people that enforce it.

7th point: Romans 13:1-7.

Not trying to strike you down, but the cop in this case was not in the legal right to tell him where he can and cannot preach (see my last post for the legal precedent). Just because he's a police officer doesn't mean he's right.

Also, like I said in my last post. He may have been in the DMV parking lot (on the sidewalk of the parking lot) but he wasn't inside the DMV and was not hindering anyone's day to day business. The security guard probably did not understand that unless this guy was inside the DMV's office or on the steps leading to the door preaching, he could not be removed legally; and even then it would still be in a legal grey zone as the DMV technically is public property and I did not see any 'No Trespassing' signs or a fence around the parking lot, hence it is defined as 'public space'.


Also...

Im pro-christianity but this was just an embarrassment. i think this is just going to stir up the imminent anti-religion/christianity persecution.

Let it stir up the persecution.

“You’re blessed when your commitment to God provokes persecution. The persecution drives you even deeper into God’s kingdom.” Matthew 5:10

Yeah, he is on the sidewalk. You are right, and I thank you for correcting me. I ask of the preacher, why that specific location and why that approach? I see how the DMV is an ideal location, lol, but I am sure there is a better way to reachout to the community... I don't see the heart in this approach. For instance, David Wilkerson was arrested for reaching out to gang members but there was good fruit. I want to see the aftermath of this situation

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
Yeah, he is on the sidewalk. You are right, and I thank you for correcting me. I ask of the preacher, why that specific location and why that approach? I see how the DMV is an ideal location, lol, but I am sure there is a better way to reachout to the community... I don't see the heart in this approach. For instance, David Wilkerson was arrested for reaching out to gang members but there was good fruit. I want to see the aftermath of this situation

As for why, I have no idea why he would go to the DMV. That puzzled me as well.

reply to post by wildtimes

Can you say "home-schooling" or "Catholic school"? The fed gov requires them to be 'educated', not to "attend public school" , which is secular....

There is no law that says you have to enroll your kids in public school.

Right and like most of the people in america have the qualifications and the time to afford to homeschool, get real. There is no law saying you have to use public school but there is a law saying that they must attend school, now if you can't afford to homeschool or private school where does that leave you? Know what happens if your kids skips school to much? They can go to a juvenile detention center and you can go to jail and or lose your kids via social services.

It leaves you with your rights and your childs rights being violated because you have no other alternative. Now who is the captive audience?

Wow these type of people really bother me but seriously I don't see why the law should get involved. If I want to go and rant about the mole people living under the kitchen sink and preach about how they are our only redemption from the evil sun then I should be able to do so. If someone wants to be offended by these loonies then they can go and praise Osiris right next to him and give them a taste of their own medicine but to have people arrested for making fools of themselves is just wrong.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Komodo

 

and if I read the constitution outloud while you are standing there.. would you be annoyed and disgusted? .. what if I read a one page research paper about how the media is being controlled by only 3 corp conglomorates.. ?

Yes, I would!!

Standing in line at the DMV does not make me obliged to listen to you. I don't care if you're reading Green Eggs and Ham...if you are doing it loudly and infringing on my right to think, to stand there with nothing but the normal day-to-day noise of modern business-hours on my mind....you are INTRUDING.

If people want to listen to Scripture or a preacher while standing in line, they are perfectly free to bring an IPod, or a Walkman, or a radio with God-programming, or any other number of devices that allow them to read, indulge, contemplate, reflect.....
It has NO PLACE in a setting where people are inclined to stay....(usually against their will anyway, as it goes with the DMV snail's-pace requirements for legal reasons)...
NO!
Get off this public lawn!

edit on 6-4-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

ahhh.. i see.. so everyone at OWS in NYC .. should have been arrested?

because they're 'annoying' people.. ? Not necessarlity because of the content they're standing up for ?? So, if someone on my job annoys me, they should be fired.. ?

if you're REALLY stating that .. ATS might not be the best place for you to interact with.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

If they drove get in their car and drive away.

With expired tags or license? Are you serious??
So then, they have to pay the fine for not having renewed in time???
ghaaa.....
And who in the heck is going to ride their bike to the DMV except people who've already let their tags/license expire and are trying to minimize their fine.....

I ride my bike all over the place. To work in the summer. But I live in downtown Indy so it saves me time and money for parking. It's hard finding a place to park.

Plus the gas for my legs costs $0.00 a gallon.

Originally posted by SmellyPants
reply to post by ArrowsNV

 

Cry much? Maybe the karma of all religions past atrocities is coming home to roost. I have no sympathy for you know it all bible thumpers. Sleep in the bed you've made, and stop crying about it.

Btw, you're going to hell.

This has nothing to do with a Bible, well check that, for you guys it does. But the exercise clause extends to anyone who is practicing their constitutional rights. Same applies to Muslims who want to read the Quran, Satanists who want to read the Necromonacon (sp?). Mormons who want to read the Book of Mormon. And *gasp* even an Atheist who want to read, um, On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.

Anyone can do this, it's not about the Christians or a Bible, but the freedom of an individual to freely exercise his 2nd amendment rights. It's about religious liberty. That's the point. Either we defend rights, even for those we don't share ideologies or religions with, or we trample those rights.

I put my life on the line to defend our Constitution,and our fathers and grandfathers and their fathers and grandfathers shed blood to defend the Constitution. We cannot piss on it because it's the "other guy's" rights and not our own. That's absurd. Either it applies to all or it applies to none comrades.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

now if you can't afford to homeschool

Can't afford to home-school?

What?!!

Home-schooling is FREE.....
oh, maybe you're referring to couples who have to have two full-time incomes just to survive...and support their luxurious lifestyle at the expense of raising their own kids....
and to that I say....
You chose to have children....and you're going to 'farm them out' to some day-care provider or public school?? Just so you can be 'wealthier'?

My kids went to public school... and each semester was at least $250......and that didn't include any kind of extra-curricular stuff, or books.....

"Free" my backside.

People need to choose.... should I have kids that I can't afford to raise without daycare??
Being a parent is a full-time, no-going-back, this-is-what-my-life-is-now...job. It doesn't go away because you want to have a 'career' and kids.....

Pick one.

reply to post by wildtimes

.if you are doing it loudly and infringing on my right to think

Huh?

What amendment to the Constitution is that right guaranteed?? We're standing up for legitimate rights granted to the people under the Constitution, you're making yours up to deny ours.

reply to post by Komodo

ahhh.. i see.. so everyone at OWS in NYC .. should have been arrested?

because they're 'annoying' people.. ? Not necessarlity because of the content they're standing up for ?? So, if someone on my job annoys me, they should be fired.. ?

if you're REALLY stating that .. ATS might not be the best place for you to interact with.

What?!!

You have no place to tell me ATS is not 'the best place for me to interact with'.

People on ATS who come to the OT Religion forum know what to expect. I am not standing in their driveway with a bullhorn pushing my beliefs on them...they have the choice to ignore me, to skip over my posts, to refuse to respond. Some jerk shouting at everyone in a line at the DMV is hardly the same thing....

whatever.
People on here get annoying , yeah. I'm sure there are plenty of members who think I'm annoying. But....I'm not bombarding their ears with dogma and rhetoric....they can read, respond, ignore, whatever.

It's a completely different thing... You come onto this forum, you are (supposedly) prepared to hear different points of view. Standing in line at the DMV is not where you go to hear religious talk.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Anyone can do this, it's not about the Christians or a Bible, but the freedom of an individual to freely exercise his 2nd amendment rights. It's about religious liberty. That's the point. Either we defend rights, even for those we don't share ideologies or religions with, or we trample those rights.

Okay, my friend......
What if that guy had been standing there, while all those people were in line to do their required thing (pay their taxes and get their registration and/or license renewed), and started burning Bibles right there?

Is that okay???

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Komodo

 

ahhh.. i see.. so everyone at OWS in NYC .. should have been arrested?

because they're 'annoying' people.. ? Not necessarlity because of the content they're standing up for ?? So, if someone on my job annoys me, they should be fired.. ?

if you're REALLY stating that .. ATS might not be the best place for you to interact with.

What?!!

You have no place to tell me ATS is not 'the best place for me to interact with'.

People on ATS who come to the OT Religion forum know what to expect. I am not standing in their driveway with a bullhorn pushing my beliefs on them...they have the choice to ignore me, to skip over my posts, to refuse to respond. Some jerk shouting at everyone in a line at the DMV is hardly the same thing....

whatever.
People on here get annoying , yeah. I'm sure there are plenty of members who think I'm annoying. But....I'm not bombarding their ears with dogma and rhetoric....they can read, respond, ignore, whatever.

It's a completely different thing... You come onto this forum, you are (supposedly) prepared to hear different points of view. Standing in line at the DMV is not where you go to hear religious talk.

hmmm.. no i didn't tell you NOT to come to ATS........did I. I said.. that ATS MIGHT NOT be... it's a suggestion, not a command,

and I'd really like you hear your point of view on my original question to you .. which you've haven't replied to, yet.

so everyone at OWS in NYC .. should have been arrested?

reply to post by Komodo

so everyone at OWS in NYC .. should have been arrested?

They were being pushy and obnoxious...but they were NOT shooting their mouths off inside a Wall Street lobby....they were in a 'park'....they were not on private property pushing their thoughts on others....there was no one in that park who had to stand there and listen to them because they needed to be in that 'line'....

sheesh

reply to post by wildtimes

Okay, my friend......
What if that guy had been standing there, while all those people were in line to do their required thing (pay their taxes and get their registration and/or license renewed), and started burning Bibles right there?

Is that okay???

If they paid for it with their own money, they can do whatever they want with it because it is their personal property. I don't care what you do with your book, but you will not be doing it with mine.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Anyone can do this, it's not about the Christians or a Bible, but the freedom of an individual to freely exercise his 2nd amendment rights. It's about religious liberty. That's the point. Either we defend rights, even for those we don't share ideologies or religions with, or we trample those rights.

Okay, my friend......
What if that guy had been standing there, while all those people were in line to do their required thing (pay their taxes and get their registration and/or license renewed), and started burning Bibles right there?

Is that okay???

Of course it's okay, I would hate to see it, but it's that person's constitutional right under freedom of speech. And I would defend his liberty to do so if he felt the desire to express himself that way. I believe it's the Word of the Living God, but it's not Jesus who is the Word made flesh.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Okay, my friend......
What if that guy had been standing there, while all those people were in line to do their required thing (pay their taxes and get their registration and/or license renewed), and started burning Bibles right there?

Is that okay???

If they paid for it with their own money, they can do whatever they want with it because it is their personal property. I don't care what you do with your book, but you will not be doing it with mine.

Wait? Did I misunderstand? Did the person take my Bible from me? If that's the case I'd punch him in the face. I'm not completely sanctified yet, not by a long shot, but glory to God He's working on me.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Komodo

 

so everyone at OWS in NYC .. should have been arrested?

They were being pushy and obnoxious...but they were NOT shooting their mouths off inside a Wall Street lobby....they were in a 'park'....they were not on private property pushing their thoughts on others....there was no one in that park who had to stand there and listen to them because they needed to be in that 'line'....

sheesh

City parks are also government property, just like DMVs. And the protestor was in the parking lot exercising his religious liberties granted to him in the Bill of Rights. He went about proselytizing is a completely unloving and confrontational manner, but it's still his right to do so. I would never have done that. But it's his religious liberties, not mine. But I will defend his right to do so, and defend the constitution I put my life on the line to defend for people to weak to do so themselves.

You might not know this about me, depends on how long you've been here. But the person portrayed by mel Gibson in the movie "The Patriot" was a great great great grandfather of mine. Brigadier General Francis Marion, the "Swamp Fox".

We are patriots in this family dear.

BTW, this is a paradox in the history of ATS. Since when have members here overwhelmingly supported COPS who make illegal arrests on CAMERA???

WTF?? Where the hell am I, this is like a parallel universe I've stepped into.