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Health care reform: The 7 most telling moments from Monday's arguments

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posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:59 PM
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Health care reform: The 7 most telling moments from Monday's arguments

3/26/12 3:31 PM EDT -- Politico

Here are some quotes from The Supreme Court Justices on Day 1...

The big question was ....
whether or not the
Anti-Injunction Act prohibits the court from weighing in on the individual mandate before it takes effect in 2014.

That Act applies to "taxes" usually.


1. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg suggested that the individual mandate isn’t a tax — and therefore isn’t affected by the Anti-Injunction Act — because it’s not designed to raise money for the government.

JUSTICE GINSBURG: And this is not a revenue-raising measure, because, if it's successful, they won't — nobody will pay the penalty and there will be no revenue to raise.


2. Chief Justice John Roberts noted that the Anti-Injunction Act didn’t stop the Supreme Court from ruling on the constitutionality of Social Security.

“It's a case quite similar to this in which the constitutionality of the Social Security Act was at issue, and the government waived its right to insist upon the application of this act.”


3. Justice Elena Kagan pointed out that in some places in the Affordable Care Act, Congress explicitly stated when the Anti-Injunction Act would apply — and that it didn’t say so where the individual mandate is concerned.

JUSTICE KAGAN: Mr. Long, aren't there places in this Act — fees and penalties — that were specifically put under the Anti-Injunction Act? There is one on health care plans, there is one on pharmaceutical manufacturers, where Congress specifically said the Anti-Injunction Act is triggered for those. It does not say that here. Wouldn't that suggest that Congress meant for a different result to obtain? ....


2 page report
Day 1




posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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It's Republican healthcare. The individual mandate is a Republican idea, one that was championed by many all the way up to 2009 going back to the mid 90's.....it was their solution instead of a PUBLIC OPTION as most liberals wanted.

Many Republicans who were for it have completely done a 180 on the entire ordeal with Obama passing a similar plan. Look it up folks....endless Republicans were for the Federal Mandates.

In fact, i'm willing to bet that if a Republican were pushing this through, many of the conservatives here would be all for it...and many liberals would be completely against it.

But as we sit here today, it's the opposite. Liberals are defending something they really truly didn't want but took what they could get....and Conservatives have backed off THEIR OWN IDEA. Democrats literally compromised with the conservative democrats to pass a Republican bill....in which all Republicans voted against.

Ultimately, more people have to pay into our healthcare system to get a control on costs. Those who refuse (or are unable) to get health insurance and then get hurt, not being able to pay for their care, increases premiums and costs for those who do.

There is no other fix to this other than to making health insurance "medicare for all", or to force individual mandates and essentially tax those who are not paying insurance....as those are the ones who drive up costs.

And between those two options, the only true difference is one is profitable...one is not.
edit on 26-3-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by David9176
 


Everything you have said is true. Politics trumps all even if it kills us. And it is.

Health Care for Profit is a Crime Against Humanity.

Sometimes this country makes me want to Puke, and I feel sick a lot lately.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Tw0Sides
 





Everything you have said is true. Politics trumps all even if it kills us. And it is. Health Care for Profit is a Crime Against Humanity.


I also believe it should not be profitable.....but it was simply not possible to pass it in that sitting Congress. Yes, many liberals are for a public option...but there were never enough to pass it in the Senate (a public option passed the house)....too many corporate bought Dems. That's why there was no real fight for it. I often wonder how many votes short it would have been in the Senate....how close were we to a public option?



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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Are we ready to re live a Post Civil War?
Will it be Brother against Brother In another Civil War?
mentalhealthcarereform.org...

But whether or not the Court is even able to issue a ruling on the mandate this year will depend on its decision on a separate legal issue. That issue deals with the Anti-Injunction Act, a tax law passed by Congress in 1867. The Anti-Injunction Act was enacted in response to a slew of post-Civil War lawsuits challenging the government’s right to impose taxes.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by David9176
 


Everything you have said is true. Politics trumps all even if it kills us. And it is.

Health Care for Profit is a Crime Against Humanity.

Sometimes this country makes me want to Puke, and I feel sick a lot lately.


Health Care for Profit = Jobs


The polling data is in. Socialism loses .........again.


A clear majority of Americans want ObamaCare flushed down the toilet.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Eurisko2012
 





Health Care for Profit = Jobs

The polling data is in. Socialism loses .........again.


All the jobs will still be there Eurisko...in fact...with more people using healthcare...it will create EVEN MORE JOBS!

Stupid stupid argument.

And btw...Obamacare IS NOT SOCIALISM. Single Payer would be a socialist program.....Obamcare is NOT!

I find it quite disturbing to see so much fear mongering coming from the same people who once supported mandates.

I want everyone to be able to get good health care...and in the process....I want them to at least share in the cost of it....because if they don't....everyone else pays the difference in premiums, deductibles, etc.

HOW IS THAT SO HARD TO FIGURE OUT?!?!?!?!!?


edit on 28-3-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 08:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by David9176
It's Republican healthcare. The individual mandate is a Republican idea, one that was championed by many all the way up to 2009 going back to the mid 90's.....it was their solution instead of a PUBLIC OPTION as most liberals wanted.

Many Republicans who were for it have completely done a 180 on the entire ordeal with Obama passing a similar plan. Look it up folks....endless Republicans were for the Federal Mandates.

In fact, i'm willing to bet that if a Republican were pushing this through, many of the conservatives here would be all for it...and many liberals would be completely against it.

But as we sit here today, it's the opposite. Liberals are defending something they really truly didn't want but took what they could get....and Conservatives have backed off THEIR OWN IDEA. Democrats literally compromised with the conservative democrats to pass a Republican bill....in which all Republicans voted against.

Ultimately, more people have to pay into our healthcare system to get a control on costs. Those who refuse (or are unable) to get health insurance and then get hurt, not being able to pay for their care, increases premiums and costs for those who do.

There is no other fix to this other than to making health insurance "medicare for all", or to force individual mandates and essentially tax those who are not paying insurance....as those are the ones who drive up costs.

And between those two options, the only true difference is one is profitable...one is not.
edit on 26-3-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)


Sure is easy to sit there at your keyboard and use words to point fingers of accusation without links to supporting documents on sites such as THOMAS.GOV or other reputable resources of information. Republican my foot. Republicans proposed health savings accounts where families pooled finances to take care of family needs. They would shop for services amongst medical providers, fostering competition and lowering of costs because of pricing wars. This would make all health insurance but catastrophic, obsolete.
edit on 28-3-2012 by tkwasny because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by tkwasny
 


LINK

And it's not just that, many Republicans have been supporting the a federal individual mandate as late as 2009......when it was believed that Democrats could possibly get a public option passed....which of course...didn't have enough votes in the Senate to get it done....the House did pass a public option though....but it was ultimately stripped away. Ever since the entire GOP has stood stonewall against the mandate...one that many of them supported...as it maintained profitability without crushing the entire system....which by the way....WILL happen if something does not change.
edit on 28-3-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 08:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by tkwasny
 


LINK

And it's not just that, many Republicans have been supporting the a federal individual mandate as late as 2009......when it was believed that Democrats could possibly get a public option passed....which of course...didn't have enough votes in the Senate to get it done....the House did pass a public option though....but it was ultimately stripped away. Ever since the entire GOP has stood stonewall against the mandate...one that many of them supported...as it maintained profitability without crushing the entire system....which by the way....WILL happen if something does not change.
edit on 28-3-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)


There has always been RINOS putting forth socialist bills that get killed by the conservative majority of the Republicans. Just as ther are conservative bills proposed by Blue Dogs that get killed by the liberal majority of the Democrats. To say this particular bill is all the Republicans ideas that they have backed down on is quite the reach.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 08:58 PM
link   
reply to post by tkwasny
 





There has always been RINOS putting forth socialist bills that get killed by the conservative majority of the Republicans. Just as ther are conservative bills proposed by Blue Dogs that get killed by the liberal majority of the Democrats. To say this particular bill is all the Republicans ideas that they have backed down on is quite the reach.


It's not socialism. You know what it is? It's insurance companies trying to stay in business. INSURANCE COMPANIES LOBBIED FOR THE MANDATES....THAT IS A FACT. They know if costs get top high...more and more people will be unable to pay their medical bills and they will be out of business.

Mandates were the Republican alternative to a single payer system.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 11:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by Eurisko2012
 





Health Care for Profit = Jobs

The polling data is in. Socialism loses .........again.


All the jobs will still be there Eurisko...in fact...with more people using healthcare...it will create EVEN MORE JOBS!

Stupid stupid argument.

And btw...Obamacare IS NOT SOCIALISM. Single Payer would be a socialist program.....Obamcare is NOT!

I find it quite disturbing to see so much fear mongering coming from the same people who once supported mandates.

I want everyone to be able to get good health care...and in the process....I want them to at least share in the cost of it....because if they don't....everyone else pays the difference in premiums, deductibles, etc.

HOW IS THAT SO HARD TO FIGURE OUT?!?!?!?!!?


edit on 28-3-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)


Socialism has lost..........again.

It's over. Now Jeffrey Toobin says it has gone from bad to worse.

First he said ObamaCare at the SCOTUS is a train wreck.

Now he says it's a plane wreck!

Face it. You guys lost this one. Move along. We have.

---------
Now it's on to repealing Dodd / Frank FinReg.


If i were you i'd go find Hillary before it's too late.



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