Can Machines think?

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posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by michaelbrux
yes...but even the most advanced still talk like a machine.

i suspect i've encountered AI in a couple of situations...you never really know if its AI until you've interacted with it for a while.

it will eventually reveal itself to be a machine.

here are a couple of things i've noticed about thinking machine via my encounter with AI on the internet.

Machines always have a response...human beings do not.
Machines don't have nuance...all things are on or off, black or white...







How could you have encountered AI if it doesn't exist yet..Chat Bots are not AI. Grandparents could talk to a chat bot for weeks and still think it was human.
edit on 19-3-2012 by Turq1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by andersensrm
 
Its been conjectured that sometime in the distant future,humans and machines will eventually merge and become one,if humanity ever survives that long and if we are ever visited by the intelligent inhabitants of another planet,we probably wont be meeting them,we'll most likely be meeting their machines and when thinking about ufos and flying saucers,we probably already have...

edit on 20-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:07 AM
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I still don't think it would possible with our technology today. C, C++, C#, VB...etc....can't do it. It's all functions and event driven now. It's basically cause and effect programming now.

It would have to be a different programming language than we use today.

It would have to be something different than using logic and math. Math can't use common sense and that's the barrier.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS
I still don't think it would possible with our technology today. C, C++, C#, VB...etc....can't do it. It's all functions and event driven now. It's basically cause and effect programming now.

It would have to be a different programming language than we use today.

It would have to be something different than using logic and math. Math can't use common sense and that's the barrier.


Makes you think of how our brains work, and how you could possibly replicate something like that. I don't know if or how it's possible.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS
I still don't think it would possible with our technology today. C, C++, C#, VB...etc....can't do it. It's all functions and event driven now. It's basically cause and effect programming now.


C++ and C# are not function-based (i.e., procedural) languages, but rather object-oriented.

Regardless, AI is not really limited today by language, but by algorithm.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by andersensrm
Originally posted by intrptr
 

reply to post by andersensrm
 

"Thinking" as you put it can really be just recall of data to reach a decision about some question. Computers do that quite well. Better than humans by far.

"Knowing" is something altogether different. A computer will never know that it knows. The best a computer program can ever do is execute the next instruction.

Despite what the "Arty - Int" teams proclaim, the best they will ever be able to program a computer to do will be... to execute the next instruction.



How do we know this is the best we can do? Whats to say that changes in the next 100 years? Hypothetically, lets just say we've created it. A living machine/robot, that "knows" it's alive, "thinks" by recalling past experiences, and learns as we do. Is it still a machine at this point?

The human body is a machine. The flesh and blood, brain and glands, all mechanical. Like a car though, it is "lifeless" without a "driver". Just like a body is "dead" without the occupant. Too bad religion has corrupted the meaning of life to make it so disdainful. The "soul" is really a very beautiful thing. The driver in the body. It too is mechanical on some level. But Life is well, that something different. Will men ever synthesize that? If he does it will be merely copying that which already exists. A copy of something is just that... a copy. Not the original.

Isn't the original good enough? Magic of the womb, an egg or seed.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by camus154
 


Oh I understand object oriented programming, but tell my this. Launch .Net 4.0 and try to do anything in it that is not event driven programming now. You can't.....All you can do is right functions and do event driven programming. I know I am in the middle of 10000 lines of code right now in it.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by intrptr
 
A robot is a machine of any shape and size that performs the same task over and over,like a robot welder in a car manufacturing plant...

A cyborg is part machine and part human,like the bionic man from the six million dollar man,or the borg from star trek,both of them are cyborgs...

An android is all machine,with human proportions,like c3po from star wars,who is a male android with a super advanced computer for a brain,a gynoid is a female android...
edit on 20-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS
reply to post by camus154
 


Oh I understand object oriented programming, but tell my this. Launch .Net 4.0 and try to do anything in it that is not event driven programming now. You can't.....All you can do is right functions and do event driven programming. I know I am in the middle of 10000 lines of code right now in it.


Sure you can. I suspect what you mean by "event driven" is that you're writing a GUI application. That doesn't make the language "event driven", though. Sure, there are events in C# (although not in C++), but it's still an object-oriented language, not a functional one.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by camus154
 


Here you go a simple function of counting to five written in C#

double[] result = new double[5]
sum =0;
for(int i =0; i < 5;i++)
{
sum += i+1;
result = sum;
sum = 0;
}



Answer: 1,2,3,4,5

There you go a function of counting to five. All of this needed to count to five and you brain can do it so much faster.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by andersensrm
Don't know if I put this in the right section.

Anyways I was reading this article:

plato.stanford.edu...

And it made me think of artificial intelligence and whether machines can do things as we do. In the article it is presented that Descartes believes that it is impossible for a machine to do things as humans do. Basically he's saying that it is impossible, impractical, to essentially "program" every response to every situation. That in reality, we as humans, take what is given to us, and think about our answer, as opposed to grabbing the answer from a pool that was given to you ahead of time in case you came across this question.

So to the point of the thread

This was a long time ago and we've greatly increased our technological capacity. The question I have is this. If we create a machine/computer capable of thinking on its own, is it still a machine or computer or something else entirely?

A true A.I. would most likely be a form of Quantum Computer. It would have to be because that is similar if not the same of what a Human Brain is...you can program a traditional sysyem to learn and adapt...but create SENTIENCE....I believe it would have to be at a Quantum Level.
It would not surprise me at all that somewhere in the Desert of Nevada...that this has been achieved. Split Infinity



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:42 AM
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I wonder how long America will keep their artificial intelligence under wraps.

I wonder if America's very high functioning artificial intelligence is allowed to vote, or is just already running the show.

Or sometimes I just wonder about weird sci-fi stuff that either is or is not real somewhere sometime.

Ah, what do I know.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by andersensrm
 

"Thinking" as you put it can really be just recall of data to reach a decision about some question. Computers do that quite well. Better than humans by far.

"Knowing" is something altogether different. A computer will never know that it knows. The best a computer program can ever do is execute the next instruction.

"real knowledge is knowing that i really don't know anything and others who i know don't even know that"...Socrates 469 bc-399 bc
edit on 20-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by intrptr
 

A robot is a machine of any shape and size that performs the same task over and over,like a robot welder in a car manufacturing plant..

A cyborg is part machine and part human,like the bionic man from the six million dollar man,or the borg from star trek,both of them are cyborgs...

An android is all machine,with human proportions,like c3po from star wars,who is a male android with a super advanced computer for a brain,a gynoid is a female android...
edit on 20-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

Hey Blocula. I'm missing your point? A robot built by man is programmed to execute instructions. It doesn't "know" what it's doing. I know machines are getting "smarter" and faster but they are still far from knowing what they do. And the TV "stars" you named only exist on... TV. I was addressing the "knowing" part of OP's scenario.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS

Do you know how much programming it would take to just make artificial wrist and hand? It would take millions of lines of code just for the one simple function you use everyday. It's amazing what your brain can do, but you only understand it when you program and then you truly appreciate our brains.
Humanity has gone from using and relying upon horse drawn carriages and wagons in 1900,to designing,building and using the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier in 1961,in only 60 years! So it probably wont take us very much longer until we create a machine thats capable of thinking on its own...



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by intrptr
 
I was just explaining the technological progression from robots,to cyborgs,to androids and androids are machines of human proportions,with super advanced computers for brains,they have thoughts and they are capable of thinking on their own,like C3PO...

edit on 20-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by ILikeStars
I wonder how long America will keep their artificial intelligence under wraps.

I wonder if America's very high functioning artificial intelligence is allowed to vote, or is just already running the show.

Or sometimes I just wonder about weird sci-fi stuff that either is or is not real somewhere sometime.

Ah, what do I know.
America reveals its latest functioning artificial intelligence every time another president is voted into office (*_*)



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 01:10 AM
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reply to post by TWISTEDWORDS
 


you have to tell the application everything to do, you even have to account for human beings clicking on things they shouldn't and you have to program that as well(it's called over-runs). Machines only do what they are told and nothing more. I only wish sometimes they could think as it would make my job a whole lot easier programming machines, because sometimes you want to kick them as they can't do the simplest things your brain can do everyday.

Thankyou
for
that.


That made my day. Obviously you have worked with the damn things. I quit you know. They drove me crazy. Plus I eventually figured out that "mainly" all my efforts could only help to improve their eventual enslavement of mankind. It appears I was right. Today they are even better at targeting, monitoring and evaluating us than ever before. I know the money is good and the tasks challenging and all, but...



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by intrptr
 
I was just explaining the technological progression from robots,to cyborgs,to androids and androids are machines of human proportions,with super advanced computers for brains,they have thoughts and they are capable of thinking on their own,like C3PO...

Ahh, but I think we are already there on a 3PO level?

other 3POs

These "think". They carry out tasks, are mobile, avoid obstacles and I bet they even beeeeeep! Although 3PO can make hologram projections, fly and interpret the city computer we aren't far behind.

I was at a hospital not too long ago and we were waiting for the elevator. When the door opened there was this big robot sitting there. It had flashing lights on it and spoke to us to please make way or some such. We stood aside and it came out, turned and moved down the hall. I asked my mom to wait a minute and walked next to it. I started saying stuff like. "Robot Emergency Override", "Cancel" . Then I stood in front of it and it stopped. When I got out of the way, it just sat there, blinking. A nurse appeared and told me nicely to lay off and then went back to her station. A bit after it continued down the hall. I was amused. So it was (mostly) controlled by people after all. She later told me it was a "meds" robot, moving from desk to desk with prescribed patient medication in a vault I did't see. It was as big as a janitors cart. There was no "track" on the floor. I like mess in with their "cricket minds."

You ever want to know if you are dealing with a real intelligence or not, just ask it, "But how do you know?"



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by intrptr
 
How does the computer im using right now "know" what i want it to do and then do what i ask it to do? because of its memory? and is memory and knowledge the same? Humans would'nt be able to think of anything without our knowledge,our memories and so is the computer i'm using now actually thinking? I dont know,i'm getting a little tired from "thinking about thinking" and i think i'm starting to ramble a little,or maybe i just think i am?

edit on 20-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)





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