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Iran "Will Retaliate" In Response To SWIFT (Strait of Hormuz)
page: 5share:
Looks like more bluster from Iran. Whoever could have possibly predicted that?
People , take a second and realize something.
Oil is just as much vital to the human body as is food and drink.
The straight is the only sea passage to the open ocean for large areas of the petroleum-exporting Persian Gulf and is one of the world's most strategically important choke points.
Tell me why NATO countries have no right to ensure its survival and prosperity?
Oil is just as much vital to the human body as is food and drink.
The straight is the only sea passage to the open ocean for large areas of the petroleum-exporting Persian Gulf and is one of the world's most strategically important choke points.
Tell me why NATO countries have no right to ensure its survival and prosperity?
edit on 20-3-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason
given)
It appears that people are a bit confused about the Strait of Hormuz. I believe a picture would make things more clear:
As one can see by the picture above, there is a narrow point which is 34 miles across. There are two shipping lanes, one inbound and one outbound, each 6 miles wide. International waters all over the world is considered anything over 12 miles from the coast. One can see, by using simple math, that the inbound lane, which intrudes on Iranian international waters, could subjectively be closed if the Iranians feel that the inbound traffic is a danger.
During the Third UN conference on the Law of The Sea, it was decided that:
In other words, US warships and aircraft carriers are not "innocent passage". Iran could technically shut down the inbound lane of the Strait as a defense mechanism. US wargames played out in which they battled Iran over the closed strait didn't fare well:
I believe that the Iranians not completely choking off the Strait is partially due to their letting cooler heads prevail, and partially because too many of their neighbors and allies, as well as enemies, would be economically hurt by the move.
Closing the Strait is a last-ditch move because they know that it will lead to war. Iran knows it will lose unless it has the backing of Russia and, hopefully for them, China.
"Throwing toys out of the pram" is a silly statement. I think they have shown extraordinary restraint in the face of constant prodding, poking and provocation from the US and Israel. The fact that the US sails its warships through Iranian waters alone shows a disregard for the UN laws it claims to follow with such zeal.
I am not playing favorites here, either. I'm just calling 'em as I see 'em, and all the evidence points to Israel and the US trying to build a case against Iran in order to justify destroying it. My personal opinion is that if Israel wasn't constantly rattling sabres and salivating over war, the US would take a much more laid-back, pragmatic approach to Iran, knowing that 35% of the oil shipped around the world passes through the Strait.
Which Path To Persia? Through the Strait of Hormuz, of course.
www.brookings.edu...
The above report by the Brookings Institute, determining the best path to obliterate Iran as a sovereign state, says it all.
As one can see by the picture above, there is a narrow point which is 34 miles across. There are two shipping lanes, one inbound and one outbound, each 6 miles wide. International waters all over the world is considered anything over 12 miles from the coast. One can see, by using simple math, that the inbound lane, which intrudes on Iranian international waters, could subjectively be closed if the Iranians feel that the inbound traffic is a danger.
During the Third UN conference on the Law of The Sea, it was decided that:
The previous customary regime of passage on the basis of 1958 convention of the territorial sea (Geneva Convention) was innocent passage. “Under the regime of innocent passage codified in Section III of the 1958 Geneva Convention, the rule is established that transit is innocent only “so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal state.” The last section of the article also requires that submarines exercising the right of innocent passage navigate on the surface, showing their flag. In Article 16 a coastal state is given the right to “take the necessary steps in its territorial sea to prevent passage which is not innocent.” This phraseology is nebulous enough as it stands; furthermore, the use of the word “prejudicial” suggests that an actual injury to peace, good order, or security need not be taking place for the passage to be deemed no longer innocent. If a reasonable chance exists that such injury may be in the offing, the coastal state would be in a strong position to decide that the passage is not innocent and exclude the vessel from its territorial waters.”
In other words, US warships and aircraft carriers are not "innocent passage". Iran could technically shut down the inbound lane of the Strait as a defense mechanism. US wargames played out in which they battled Iran over the closed strait didn't fare well:
en.wikipedia.org...
U.S. war games have indicated a significant inability of conventional naval forces to withstand an asymmetrical attack that would effectively seal a geographic choke-point such as the Straits of Hormuz. This was most effectively seen in the Millennium Challenge 2002, where the "Red" forces completely overwhelmed the "Blue" forces to such a degree that the entire war game was halted due to significant "Blue" force losses. [30] Many observers saw this war game as a dress rehearsal for a potential U.S.-Iranian conflict over the Persian Gulf.
I believe that the Iranians not completely choking off the Strait is partially due to their letting cooler heads prevail, and partially because too many of their neighbors and allies, as well as enemies, would be economically hurt by the move.
Closing the Strait is a last-ditch move because they know that it will lead to war. Iran knows it will lose unless it has the backing of Russia and, hopefully for them, China.
"Throwing toys out of the pram" is a silly statement. I think they have shown extraordinary restraint in the face of constant prodding, poking and provocation from the US and Israel. The fact that the US sails its warships through Iranian waters alone shows a disregard for the UN laws it claims to follow with such zeal.
I am not playing favorites here, either. I'm just calling 'em as I see 'em, and all the evidence points to Israel and the US trying to build a case against Iran in order to justify destroying it. My personal opinion is that if Israel wasn't constantly rattling sabres and salivating over war, the US would take a much more laid-back, pragmatic approach to Iran, knowing that 35% of the oil shipped around the world passes through the Strait.
Which Path To Persia? Through the Strait of Hormuz, of course.
www.brookings.edu...
The above report by the Brookings Institute, determining the best path to obliterate Iran as a sovereign state, says it all.
reply to post by WarriorOfTheLight
It is about oil. That, and control + money + other resources + banks.
Evidence? Thats pretty funny you want evidence of something happening right in front of your face.
How about this or this or this.
Go here and scroll down. Their next stop is Africa maybe?
After their done brainwashing people like you and somehow using the media to make everyone
in the world think going to war with another country is good, that may be their next stop.
Also, the US basically funds the United Nations. Pay off the people in it, and the decision is yours.
If you don't, you'll end up having sanctions put on you. Especially if you don't bow down to the bankers.
But I guess even if the US controls the decision the council still has a say in it.
It is about oil. That, and control + money + other resources + banks.
Evidence? Thats pretty funny you want evidence of something happening right in front of your face.
How about this or this or this.
Go here and scroll down. Their next stop is Africa maybe?
After their done brainwashing people like you and somehow using the media to make everyone
in the world think going to war with another country is good, that may be their next stop.
Also, the US basically funds the United Nations. Pay off the people in it, and the decision is yours.
If you don't, you'll end up having sanctions put on you. Especially if you don't bow down to the bankers.
But I guess even if the US controls the decision the council still has a say in it.
This is my first post on ATS. After many years of lurking I have decided to finally join the discussion. I see a lot of speculation in this thread
which is fine. Some people are posting interesting information without evidence like reputable links. I would love to go over that stuff and poke
around. Now to some of my points.
-I am concerned with the Enterprise being deployed to the Persian Gulf. It does smell as a potential false flag just waiting to happen. It is the oldest active Carrier and is scheduled to be decommissioned in 2013.
-War in my opinion does look inevitable. Iran is threatening to cut off oil from the Straits of Hormuz. This will cause oil to skyrocket and thus everything oil is used for (manufacturing, Transportation) will follow suit. Whenever a nation (in this case the United States) has it's natural resources threatened then it is a problem that is usually dealt with.
-Despite what people say. The U.S is war weary and sick of fighting. The only way I see to drum up support for another expensive conflict is to have the enemy appear to be the aggressor. A large event would help this along.
-It seems to me that Iran is playing a game to stall for as much time as possible. If they manage to successfully test a nuke then it is a game changer. That puts The Enterprise Carrier group at risk and Israel. This has the potential to spiral out of control fast.
-Closing the Strait is easy. Silkworm missiles would be a constant threat. Even under Military protection the oil tankers are giant hulking targets loaded with flammable stuff. Oil companies and insurance companies would have a Shi*fit when moving anything through a war-zone.
-Do not underestimate Iran and their capabilities. I know Israel and the U.S are not. Otherwise they would have attacked by now.
-Finally I personally believe (I have no evidence supporting) that Iran has Nukes already. They are just stalling as long as they can to build more before they test one. If it is a failed test then they get invaded (going to get invaded anyways) If it is a successful test then they have bombs that work and deployed for the immediate invasion after a successful test.
-Zygonator
-I am concerned with the Enterprise being deployed to the Persian Gulf. It does smell as a potential false flag just waiting to happen. It is the oldest active Carrier and is scheduled to be decommissioned in 2013.
-War in my opinion does look inevitable. Iran is threatening to cut off oil from the Straits of Hormuz. This will cause oil to skyrocket and thus everything oil is used for (manufacturing, Transportation) will follow suit. Whenever a nation (in this case the United States) has it's natural resources threatened then it is a problem that is usually dealt with.
-Despite what people say. The U.S is war weary and sick of fighting. The only way I see to drum up support for another expensive conflict is to have the enemy appear to be the aggressor. A large event would help this along.
-It seems to me that Iran is playing a game to stall for as much time as possible. If they manage to successfully test a nuke then it is a game changer. That puts The Enterprise Carrier group at risk and Israel. This has the potential to spiral out of control fast.
-Closing the Strait is easy. Silkworm missiles would be a constant threat. Even under Military protection the oil tankers are giant hulking targets loaded with flammable stuff. Oil companies and insurance companies would have a Shi*fit when moving anything through a war-zone.
-Do not underestimate Iran and their capabilities. I know Israel and the U.S are not. Otherwise they would have attacked by now.
-Finally I personally believe (I have no evidence supporting) that Iran has Nukes already. They are just stalling as long as they can to build more before they test one. If it is a failed test then they get invaded (going to get invaded anyways) If it is a successful test then they have bombs that work and deployed for the immediate invasion after a successful test.
-Zygonator
reply to post by WarriorOfTheLight
Oh comon, you know there wont be any evidence..
As there wont be and ARE no evidence of them
making A-bombs..
Oh comon, you know there wont be any evidence..
As there wont be and ARE no evidence of them
making A-bombs..
Originally posted by Miccey
reply to post by WarriorOfTheLight
Oh comon, you know there wont be any evidence..
As there wont be and ARE no evidence of them
making A-bombs..
I am not looking for Hard indisputable evidence. Just something to poke around with. Whether someone presents it or not is up to them. Just felt that it would add to the discussion more.
-Zygonator
reply to post by Zygonator
Interesting theory.
But they've highly publicized that this is the Big E's last deployment before hitting the salvageyard. I just don't see it working with a ship that is destined for the scrapyard. Yes lives will be lost, but it will be too obvious if we lose a ship we were going to throw away after this sailing.
Interesting theory.
But they've highly publicized that this is the Big E's last deployment before hitting the salvageyard. I just don't see it working with a ship that is destined for the scrapyard. Yes lives will be lost, but it will be too obvious if we lose a ship we were going to throw away after this sailing.
Oil slips below $124 on Strait of Hormuz reassurance (Reuters)
20 March 2012
LONDON - Brent crude fell more than $2 to around $123 a barrel on Tuesday as Kuwait said Iran had reassured the Gulf state it would not close the strategically important Strait of Hormuz shipping lane and Saudi Arabia signaled it was ready to increase supply.
www.khaleejtimes.com.../data/oilgas/2012/March/oilgas_March21.xml§ion=oilgas
Oops! Link above isn't working. Let's try another.
Kuwaiti Amir says Iran assures not to close Strait of Hormuz
GCC (Gulf Cooperation Council) countries received assurances from Iran that it will not close the Strait of Hormuz as reaction to economic sanctions by Europe and the U.S., the Amir of Kuwait Sheikh Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah told ih interview to the Japanese major daily Asahi Shimbun, Kuwait News Agency (KUNA) reported.
en.trend.az...
edit on 20-3-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-3-2012 by
Deetermined because: (no reason given)
reply to post by buster2010
You're right. But since such a move affects the health of a good chunk of the world's economies, including their own neighbors, they should be prepared to go to war over it. It would be sort of like the U.S. stopping grain exports or if the U.S. had decided to close the Panama canal back when we still had control over that.
You're right. But since such a move affects the health of a good chunk of the world's economies, including their own neighbors, they should be prepared to go to war over it. It would be sort of like the U.S. stopping grain exports or if the U.S. had decided to close the Panama canal back when we still had control over that.
reply to post by WarriorOfTheLight
so you still believe that old chestnut about wanting to wipe israel off the map ?
I thought only Fox news subscribers and people who wore Mccain/Palin 08 T shirts still believed that load of bologna.
I bet those damn terrorists still hate our freedoms , right ?
so you still believe that old chestnut about wanting to wipe israel off the map ?
I thought only Fox news subscribers and people who wore Mccain/Palin 08 T shirts still believed that load of bologna.
I bet those damn terrorists still hate our freedoms , right ?
I love how this ridiculous argument always ignores the reason the current regime in Iran is in power to begin with.
We are all being played.
I also love that very few people ever even suggest we just bring all our forces out of that area of the world, let the countries work things out and determine the fate of the region. Israel is a big boy. He can take care of himself.
Which is to say that many of you think the whole of Iran is suicidal, and wants to be melted by a series of nuclear explosions.
We are all being played.
I also love that very few people ever even suggest we just bring all our forces out of that area of the world, let the countries work things out and determine the fate of the region. Israel is a big boy. He can take care of himself.
Which is to say that many of you think the whole of Iran is suicidal, and wants to be melted by a series of nuclear explosions.
edit on
20-3-2012 by OrchusGhule because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-3-2012 by OrchusGhule because: (no reason given)
The US had absolutely NO BUSINESS over there, or in any country besides its own for that matter. I feel that the US is constantly trying to be the
world police and the only thing they are doing is making themselves look more like asshats. One of these days all the countries that the US keeps
bullying are going to team up and slap a beat down on us. And Im from the US. I mean, this is rediculous, how the hell can we honestly think that we
have any right to tell another country thousands of miles away what they can and cannot do? International law? Please...
reply to post by Cylent773
Taking the example of Pakistan, the US might be right in being fearful of another Islamic country getting the nukes and then blackmailing the neighbors and world with conducting terrorism and taking other liberties.
What is the way out of this mess without fighting a war? Hope I knew..................
Taking the example of Pakistan, the US might be right in being fearful of another Islamic country getting the nukes and then blackmailing the neighbors and world with conducting terrorism and taking other liberties.
What is the way out of this mess without fighting a war? Hope I knew..................
Originally posted by WarriorOfTheLight
Originally posted by XelNaga
i think its the other way around...Iran is like a parent while the west (being incredibly younger as a civilization) is like the infant throwing temper tantrums and toys. Iran is acting like the patient parent, giving warnings to children before finally acting upon them out of irritation.
iran has every right to close the straight simply because we are cutting them off from the rest of the world with little to no reason except because isreal said so.
Little to no reason? seriously?
Seems to me Iran is constantly ignoring international law every nation on the planet abides by, but them of course, when action is taking in the form of sanctions to bring them to the table they simply throw there toy out the pram because they cannot have what they want (nukes to threaten the region), so then has a little sulk about it, then issues another threat that gets countered with more sanctions and action to counter there silly threats, such as the 4 aircraft carriers just around the corner, i mean it not like its one or two countrys its a pretty unanimous decision against Iran but i guess there all in the wrong,
What that? you want to kill everyone in Israel, sure you can have nukes carry on... that would be pretty irresponsible of the international communities, would also make the problem x1000 worseedit on 19-3-2012 by WarriorOfTheLight because: (no reason given)
hahahaha, every country on the planet abides by, wait a minute, hahahahaaa, i have to catch my breath...
lets examine the fact that Israel does indeed have nuclear weapons on a massive scale and is shielded by america, they do not affirm or deny the fact and there fore do not fall under the non proliferation deals.
israel has the capability to hit just about every city in the world and you are worried about iran, you should be more concerned that israel will turn a race of people to dust.
iran has nothing compared to what israel has, they are nowhere near it. israel could take out every big city in every country in the middle east before one missile hit the ground in israel.
we should take irans actions with a grain of salt, having a neighbour with that much power, who is your mortal enemy would be stressfull.
nuclearweaponarchive.org...
www.foreignaffairs.com...
www.reuters.com...
Originally posted by Miccey
Originally posted by paradox
Originally posted by XelNaga
i think its the other way around...Iran is like a parent while the west (being incredibly younger as a civilization) is like the infant throwing temper tantrums and toys. Iran is acting like the patient parent, giving warnings to children before finally acting upon them out of irritation.
iran has every right to close the straight simply because we are cutting them off from the rest of the world with little to no reason except because isreal said so.
We have offered Iran repeated peace talks over their nuclear facilities. Iran's response is
NO! You can't see them!
Then after a little time passes and they have a chance to clear those facilities out....okay you can come in!
Doesn't seem very mature to me....
Almost...childlike?edit on 3-19-12 by paradox because: (no reason given)
LOL...
How come when the double moralistiq US demands
something EVERYONE must comply?!?!?
Dont get me wrong here, im not in bed with islam
or the likes, but im really getting pissed by US
and their turdbehaviour.
Lets have a trade:
US can see Irans Nuclear when iran can see Area51
Iran did not have the tech. ability to build it's Nuclear Program...it purchased it and in order to do that it has to sign the NPT. Which it did and is violating.
Iran cannot violate the deal without repercussions as is now occuring...and as far as AREA 51...how in the world can you even use that as an analogy for rights?
Iran will self implode anways by it's own people of which 70% are under the age of 30 years old and over 90% are Pro-Democracy and REALLY PISSED OFF that the Old Guard Fixed the Elections. The current U.S. Plan for Iran is Sanctions...listen to Iran Bitch...but Iran will do nothing as they know to do so would be suicide.
The only reason those Nuclear Sites have not been bombed by Israel is because the U.S. has FORBID IT!
Imagine bombing Nuclear sites with Radioactive clouds poisoning the entire Middle east. Split Infinity
reply to post by buster2010
Israel bombed Iraqs unfinished reactor....before Radioactive Material could cloud the whole region....good thing too. Split Infinity
Israel bombed Iraqs unfinished reactor....before Radioactive Material could cloud the whole region....good thing too. Split Infinity
Originally posted by Miccey
reply to post by WarriorOfTheLight
bää bää little lamb...
Oh sorry....Couldnt resist..
Stupidity runs wild...
There are alot of conspiracys but i think a
conspiracy starts with a HINT of truth and
then grows..
US i belive IS bad..For the world. For the ppl
of the world and for evolution.
PS: Theres nothing more to this than Money and Oil...
Everything else is bs...edit on 2012/3/20 by Miccey because: (no reason given)
I will not dispute the U.S. Policy driven by Oil arrguement...but I take exception to the....U.S. is BAD for the World...statement you have made.
I have three jobs and one of them involves solving problems...if far away places from time to time...and I am older now and am not a kid...but I go when asked because of the chances that my Team will come back alive dramaticly increase if I go do to my experience. Your Avatar states you are from Sweden...nice place...too cold...know a Swede who wears sandals on days here in New England when we are all wearing Boots....he say's to him it is nice out! LOL! I know him because he is an inovator in a particular field that the Geographic Area of New Hampshire was ideal for him to work. New Hampshires Motto...which is on EVERY Vehicles Licence Plate is...LIVE FREE OR DIE.
When I first met him and he had only been here about 18 months...and his work was something that was needed for something I can't talk about....he mentioned to me...and we are now friends...how absolutely SURPRISED that LIVE FREE OR DIE was on all New Hampshire Licence plates....I told him...It was an old saying which started all the way back to the Revolutionary War or a bit before against England. He said...But why is such an old referenced statement STILL on every plate? I said...you have to understand the Drive and the Desire of the American People as far as the concept of Freedom and what they will do or sacrifice to keep it as well as to help others achieve it. There came a point where although he was being paid...well...that a problem arose and this Need to Know event had to be explained to him as even though that is not what we wanted to do...in order to make things work...and alot of peoples lives were at stake...HE NEEDED TO KNOW...so he could advise us on what to do as plans had changed. As a result of this...we made a deal with him and we promised to tell him the outcome...after he signed a long contract that basicly said that if he ever talked about it....He would go to a Federal Prison....Forever. He agreed and I drove up to see him about 6 months latter as I live in Mass. Itold him of the sucess and how he had indirectly saved the lives of a lot of people...this Large man with a Beard and rotund chest expanded that chest and smiled and said to me...NOW I KNOW why the words are still on the license plates. He got his U.S. Citizenship....and I have been to many like this....but he seemed the MOST PROUD out of all of the ones I had gone to...He had his small U.S. Flag that they give you and we went with another Nordic Friend of his to drink beer....in quantities I prefer not to remember.
He is now working on a type of Clean Energy Solar Heat Absorbtion technique and has his entire workshop...which is very large and deep in the woods...heated by this technique....he also has all the hot water they need...and they need alot for the shop...and he still wears SANDALS on days where it is over 32 degrees Farenheit. Split Infinity
Whatever. Every day on here i see a thread about an imminent Isralei strike on Iran, an Iranian strike on the US etc. Its all BS....Nothing is
happening or going to happen.
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