How Every American Seeking Work Can be Employed: Redistribution of Wealth from the 1%

reply to post by FoosM


Thank you for demonstrating general stupidity of progressive liberals.

$100,000?

Where I live that puts you in the middle class. Not even upper middle class.. a nurse here makes on average 80k a year.. a teacher 60-110k a year.. a decent house 5-600k+ ..

A $100,000 cap? This is why idiots shouldn't dabble in economics.. every single person I've seen in this thread touting the communist mantra of wealth distribution (and by the way numbnuts .. a salary cap IS considered redistribution of wealth) have NO clue about how economics work, nor the fundamental economic theories that allowed the US to be what it is.

reply to post by ISHAMAGI

If that is the case they have stolen your passion and taken your dreams as you work to just exist. Tell me is a dead end job that pays the bills really a life? Do those billionaires and trillionaires deserve millions of times more than your average working Joe NO!

I enjoy the work I do..

I would never do it for free.

And I would certainly never do it for charity. Or for the same compensation as a janitor. Sorry.. it's a skilled trade, and I charge for the quality of my work.

Do I deserve the same compensation as a CEO of a major corporation? No.. I don't think so.. I've never been jealous of other peoples wealth, and I could care less how much my past bosses have made.. even the idiots. Without monetary compensation, which then turns to maintaining my home, family, way of life etc, I would not work. And if my option was to bust my ass and have my money stolen from me, thus lowering my quality of life, or sitting on my ass and getting a check from the Government in the same amount.... again .. I wouldn't work another day in my life.

You have to understand something very important about these Communist philosophies.. they ONLY benefit the poor. And the government. No one else. My way of life as a middle class American would end over night.. the rich would be brought to the same level as the poor, and the poor would just be poor .. they would only see more benefits, while the rest of us see our way of life end.

Originally posted by ISHAMAGI

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by mossme89

 

Sooo if you're rich.. we take your money and give it to poor people because well .. they have no money.

So me, being in the middle, I'm far, far, far from rich but I'm not "poor" either. Why should I continue to work? Why shouldn't I just chill on my couch playing my xbox smoking pot all day? I mean, I'd get paid either way? Work and have people take my money.. or play xbox and get money with no work?

I see no incentive to work. Certainly no incentive to make a business, create products, innovate.... people will just profit from my work while I make the same as them? F that.. I'll sit on my couch.

You don't see incentive because you are so focused on money you are blinded.

So your idea of a perfect day is smoking pot playing x-box..lol

If that is the case they have stolen your passion and taken your dreams as you work to just exist. Tell me is a dead end job that pays the bills really a life? Do those billionaires and trillionaires deserve millions of times more than your average working Joe NO!

Yet they have cornered every market and massaged every law and there is no way to make it fair short of taking it and thatt is a sad fact.

Exactly. Out of all of the possible reasons an individual has to "go to work everyday", money is probably the worst and least effective motivator. If you are "only in it for the money" (even if it's just a small wage) you are almost guaranteed to do a crappy job.

Is money NECESSARY? You bet. But to treat it as the one and only or even the prime motivator is the domain of fools.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Never did I say I "only" work for money. I said I would never work for no money. Big difference. No pay, no work. I enjoy my work, it's fun, creative, and always changing... but I would never work for free.

Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by NonC0nf0rmist
Funny thing is, if we stop the wars we increase unemploymancy from all the soldiers entering back into the system. There will be layoff by the factories who create products for military personell. Not just bombs and weapons, but the people on the factory lines that make trauma kits, boots, boot soles, jackets, canteens, helmets,etc... get the picture?

More people = more competition. More competition = greater efficiency. Greater efficiency = higher production. Higher production = more jobs. More jobs = economic growth. Economic growth = prosperity. Prosperity = equality and happiness. Equality and happiness = innovation.

Simple Math rule that Obama keeps spouting(I don't know if you are a supporter of him, just I hate his speeches where he regurgitates this BS) is actually much harder then it looks.

How will you increase jobs for people?

Yeah we no longer have troops over occupying other countries, but falsehood in the belief that the Pentagon/CIA/FBI/IRS/FEMA/Black Ops/etc... will give up a major portion of their military budget is funny at best.

It starts with getting the factories back here, the steel mills(we buy of it from Asia countries now), which means less wages and major sacrifice for American citizens. Unions will not allow this, as they have it set that people should be making their 17-30$/hr so the union suits get their 20-30% cut.

Look at Toyota, see they pretty much build every car here in the USA that they sell here. The reason why they can do this is because they manufacture ALL the parts overseas and it is cheaper to import the parts here and have some factory workers oversee their robots in the plant instead of trying to haul fully assembled cars into this country.

Competition? Roughly only 1/2 the citizens pay income tax. Hmm so if the 1% have ways of skirting income tax that still leaves 49% not paying income tax. We have so many people sitting idle waiting for Big Bro Government checks each month rarely any generate any competition now.


The whole system needs to be change and peoples mindsets need to get back to willing to do hard labor work for lower wages. Why do you think these illegals come in and take the crappy jobs. Ya know most make a good living with their earnings. Majority have a roof over their heads, food in a fridge, a vehical. Quite a few eventually get their citizenship and move on to better jobs or start thir own companies.

The attitude these recent generations have that they do not have to work and can collect on my tax dollar contributions I been paying into for 27 years is redonkulous. I been paying taxes since I was 13yo, started as a book binder then got into HVAC which I am not a coordinator for a school district. No professional schooling, no sitting on my ass(though it may be a little larger then noraml) procrastinating, just hard work and the desire to succeed.

I want the OWS agenda to happen, cause it will open alot of eyes and help serve this country well in the long run, but it will be extremely violent and I will not put it past what we have been seeing in Middle East. It will hopefully get the financial structure revamped, and get people to learn how to be strong and not sit on their asses.

People need to stand for something.

reply to post by NonC0nf0rmist


The problem is in the whole concept of creating jobs. No one creates jobs on purpose, it happens as a result of a business growing. No one creates a business, for the purpose of creating jobs. When businesses are allowed to flourish, jobs are created. Trying to create jobs is a flawed concept, create an atmosphere where businesses can grow, and you get more jobs.

When you create an atmosphere, where you can't grow a business, without having a lot of money, or taking a huge gamble with a loan.... The result you get is what we have.

Also the illegal immigrant thing, have you seen how they live? In NY, they pile up like 20 to an APT, that is not something we should be striving for. They can afford to live for next to nothing, and send money back home, because they are willing to live like cockroaches to do it.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by FoosM

 

Thank you for demonstrating general stupidity of progressive liberals.

$100,000?

Where I live that puts you in the middle class. Not even upper middle class.. a nurse here makes on average 80k a year.. a teacher 60-110k a year.. a decent house 5-600k+ ..

A $100,000 cap? This is why idiots shouldn't dabble in economics.. every single person I've seen in this thread touting the communist mantra of wealth distribution (and by the way numbnuts .. a salary cap IS considered redistribution of wealth) have NO clue about how economics work, nor the fundamental economic theories that allowed the US to be what it is.

Hey...idiot.

If there was a $100K in your neighborhood...then by definition a $100K/yr would be the pinnacle of salaried achievement. What things cost, and what people make right now would be entirely irrelevant.

Don't get me wrong...an arbitrarily decided prescription for "$100K/yr" maximum wage isn't thought out very well and would almost certainly be doomed to fail.

That being said....we should also probably take a cue from third world countries and second and first world despotic hellholes. Countries that are bass ackwards and in shambles come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. There are big ones with lots and lots of resources and there are small ones. There are secular ones and one's ruled by religious fanaticism. Hellholes can be communist, socialist, or mercantilist. They can be democratic republics, monarchies, dictatorships, or oligarchies.

However...the one thing that ALL hellhole countries have in common is A VAST DISPARITY OF WEALTH WITH VERY LITTLE IF ANY "MIDDLE" CLASS.

Thus, the idea that top and bottom wages in society or a corporation ought to in some way be linked may well be not such a bad concept. True...society DOES need some rich people. Likewise..."eliminating poverty" is a fools errand. You can reduce it to a point...but there will always be SOMEBODY who makes utterly terrible decisions and is broke as a result.

Why not look for government and economic policy which is designed to pursue a normal distribution (as in the Bell Curve) of wealth in which approximately the middle two quartiles of the population control approximately 68.2% of the populations wealth?

Let's strip all this foolish ideology and utopian notions out the equation. The hardline "left" wants to turn the whole world into a gigantic soup kitchen and the hardline "right" doesn't seem to understand that markets do not forever expand.

If you are "on top" and want to stay there...you simply MUST have future customers to sell to. What better way than to have a "middle class" where the MAJORITY of the population has at least SOME disposable or discretionary income and another 25% has LOTS AND LOTS of disposable or discretionary income?

It really, truly is in everyone's best interest. Unfortunately, we have this paradigm of stubborn refusal to "wealth redistribution"...largely as a result of Cold War Era brainwashing of American children against the Russians. Why is it that the RESULTS must always be subservient to the IDEOLOGY, THEORY, OR RHETORIC, OR DOGMA?
It makes no damn sense. Instead of treating these economic philosophies like a frickin' RELIGION...why don't we treat them as TOOLS?

An axe isn't inherently a "good thing" or "bad thing"....it's just a thing!!!. You can use an axe to build a cabin and chop firewood to keep warm in the winter. You could also use an axe to chop a family to bits. It's the usage that matters...not the tool.

It all really seems so very, very, simple to me.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by NonC0nf0rmist

 

The problem is in the whole concept of creating jobs. No one creates jobs on purpose, it happens as a result of a business growing. No one creates a business, for the purpose of creating jobs. When businesses are allowed to flourish, jobs are created. Trying to create jobs is a flawed concept, create an atmosphere where businesses can grow, and you get more jobs.

When you create an atmosphere, where you can't grow a business, without having a lot of money, or taking a huge gamble with a loan.... The result you get is what we have.

Also the illegal immigrant thing, have you seen how they live? In NY, they pile up like 20 to an APT, that is not something we should be striving for. They can afford to live for next to nothing, and send money back home, because they are willing to live like cockroaches to do it.

edit on Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:58:10 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Wrong. Business does not "create" jobs. DEMAND creates the need for a business which then creates jobs.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Check with your community college.

Sign up for "Economic 101"

Come back..

We can have a chat at least with a little bit of intelligence.

You can alter the economic layout of the country, alter the theorems in which it operates, change the way people think, the very culture of our society..

But it wouldn't be the same place. Our quality of life would plummet .. our choices, our options, and our freedoms and liberties would be reduced or destroyed entirely.. Capitalism made this country great, it's the reason you have a computer and internet to have this ridiculous argument to begin with.

reply to post by milominderbinder


People can demand all they want, without a business, there is no jobs.....
A long time ago, before the government decided to regulate the piss out of everything, this would be true. You could hang a sign on your house, and blamo, you got a business. Good luck doing that now.

reply to post by sting130u


So you support forced slavery?

Community service for a check?

What is wrong with people on this site?

Why don't some of you come out and admit that you're nationalists?

Originally posted by NonC0nf0rmist
How will you increase jobs for people?

Through competition. Many in the military are skilled workers and their experience would provide the opportunity to compete for similar jobs back in their country. This competition would require more learning and experience to compete with, and with this, we get innovation, which provides technology for more and more job opportunities.

Originally posted by milominderbinder
However...the one thing that ALL hellhole countries have in common is A VAST DISPARITY OF WEALTH WITH VERY LITTLE IF ANY "MIDDLE" CLASS.

Get rid of taxation and the tax codes and suddenly the deceptive concept of class goes away. It's a terrible concept based on equally terrible redistribution systems.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Never did I say I "only" work for money. I said I would never work for no money. Big difference. No pay, no work. I enjoy my work, it's fun, creative, and always changing... but I would never work for free.

Well...of course not. Not many people would work for free, nor should they. However, your post read:

I see no incentive to work. Certainly no incentive to make a business, create products, innovate.... people will just profit from my work while I make the same as them? F that.. I'll sit on my couch."

If people ONLY worked for money most open source software wouldn't exist. Instead...it runs the world. Even a "proprietary" OS isn't of much use without the open source plugins, languages, standards and protocols which is oftentimes developed in large part by volunteers.

If anything, this idea of money being the prime motivator causes LOTS more problems than it solves. Human beings are by DEFAULT hardwired to be interested in improving their communities. Villages made communal improvements to their surrounding a minimum of 8,000 years prior to the Lydians inventing coined currency. Some estimates range as far as 10-12,000.

In a society which we perpetuate the myth that "free markets" are universally good without exception, we slowly come to this idea that the only tasks, inventions, or innovations worthwhile are the ones paying out money. Followed closely by the idea that the proportion of money this endeavor pays out is in itself evidentiary of it's need, importance, value, or morality.

Simply put...nothing could possibly be further from the truth.

The way we worship the almighty dollar has just plain old gotten disgusting.

Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by NonC0nf0rmist
How will you increase jobs for people?

Through competition. Many in the military are skilled workers and their experience would provide the opportunity to compete for similar jobs back in their country. This competition would require more learning and experience to compete with, and with this, we get innovation, which provides technology for more and more job opportunities.

Originally posted by milominderbinder
However...the one thing that ALL hellhole countries have in common is A VAST DISPARITY OF WEALTH WITH VERY LITTLE IF ANY "MIDDLE" CLASS.

Get rid of taxation and the tax codes and suddenly the deceptive concept of class goes away. It's a terrible concept based on equally terrible redistribution systems.

Huh?

Geeze you'd think idiots would get a clue. The wealth has already been redistributed TO THE POLITICALLY CONNECTED. So how do these people come up with the same government who distributed all the wealth to themselves and their politically connected cronies will suddenly give IT to the people...Sigh!

GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM NOT THE SOLUTION!!!

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

People can demand all they want, without a business, there is no jobs.....
A long time ago, before the government decided to regulate the piss out of everything, this would be true. You could hang a sign on your house, and blamo, you got a business. Good luck doing that now.

edit on Sun, 18 Mar 2012 16:05:31 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Ok...but presumably the "business" is only created to fulfill some type of demand for a product or service, right?

Do you understand basic Supply and Demand? Ever hear the phrase "necessity is the mother of invention?" The demand comes first...the supply follows it.

Originally posted by mossme89
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

Then don't complain if you're out of a job.

Just trying to think of a way to help the people out of work...

I have an acquaintance who thinks all disabled individuals should be forced to compete with the able-bodied unemployed for jobs. As if we don't already have enough problems. Sheesh.

That 800 million dollars being "pumped" into the economy was always already there,

do you honestly think rich people take their money and hide it all under their matresses???

no most if not all of it is put into projects and investments that make them more money, their money is always working in ways that create more jobs for people because thats the way they make more, its always in the economy!!!

thats why they are rich and others are poor!!!

if you took all the wealth in the entire world and distributed it between all the people and allowed things to play out in a capitalist system, within 5 years everyone would be back to where they were before!

reply to post by milominderbinder


If I could work or not work and get paid nearly the same either way ... hell no, I would absolutely NOT work. It doesn't have anything to do with the money.. it's the principle of the matter.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Of course, if no one needs what you are selling, or the service you provide then you go broke. The point I was trying to get across, is these days you need either a bankroll, or brass balls to take a loan out to start a business to fill a need. There is so much crap you have to go through, so many hands to greese to start a business now, let alone keep it running and expand.

I ran a business successfully for about 8 years, until the real estate bubble popped and brought construction down with it.

Started out in only NY, need to get workman's comp and liability insurance. Each town has it's own regulations, better learn them or be fined. I once got slapped with a $5,000 fine. The crime? Working before 10 AM, no kidding.

When business was booming, and we had expanded into the whole tristate area, we literally needed to hire a lawyer, to keep track of all the regulations.

It is insanity, if not for all that crazy BS, we probably would have grown and expanded. We couldn't afford to.

To expand on it, all you used to need was a demand, a good idea to fill it, and ingenuity. You could be a successful businessman with just that. Look at all the big companies out there now, and look into how they came to be. In this day in age, those companies would not have never got off the ground, because regulations and moneymanking schemes(licensing) are rampant.

And to put things in perspective, the lawyer that we needed to hire, made almost three times per hour than I did. I sweat and bleed for my business, and I had to hire a desk jockey that made more than me. Insanity!