Suffering from Social Phobia. Advice Needed.

reply to post by Skylonda


I think our discussion between our two perspectives is good for Alexander. He's bright and can make up his own mind. And many people will benefit from the challenging of the two perspectives against each other. If I can get to the statistics etc, all the more so.

The idea that the FDA, Obama et al are going to improve things in this field is utterly off the wall.

Big Pharma is an unqualified wonderful thing to you?

They are gearing up for massive genoicde.

I wonder what level, class, schedule they will assign chemical straight-jacketed folks to as useless eaters . . . for what que in the process.

When the system breaks down . . . as it well could in a matter of weeks to months . . . how will folks get any kind of meds, much less modern psychoactive meds?

Perhaps it's wiser for folks to talk to their medical professional about getting weaned off drugs now, where at all practical.

Having to cope with no drugs SUDDENLY on TOP of all the chaos and stress of WW3 and society collapsing around their ears . . . would be a LOT worse than handling such a weaning now.

Oh, in terms of covering my rear . . . I've always tended to way out extend myself helping people first . . . and belatedly realize I might need to be wiser about my own protection. People have always mattered more to me than my own rear. There's a lot of people living better, functional lives because of that emphasis. I'm not sad about that.

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Oh my! This is quite a lot to digest. Please allow me some time to read all of your posts and be able to digest their content and I will get back to you. I would like to thank all of you who participate in this thread for your genuine interest and the knowledge that you share.

Alexander

Ok. First of all, I am trying to understand in what way Skylonda's approach differs from Bo Xian's. Skylonda suggests that I should quit any excuses about taking medication and just do it and also advises me to seek help at NAMI. On the other hand, Bo Xian's method is much more along the lines of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy without the use of medication.

I am brought in an awkward position where I somehow have to choose whose advice I should follow. Well, I would like to have the option of taking medication as my last resort and being a Greek who lives in Germany, I don't see how NAMI could help me, Skylonda. I am interested however in following some of Bo Xian's suggestions. If you would like you could share with us more specifically how NAMI has helped you deal with your anxieties.

reply to post by intrptr


Oh my God, intrptr! I can totally relate to almost anything that article said. Thank you for sharing that with us! I never knew I was an empath...

reply to post by Alexander1111



Thanks for your kind reply.

PLEASE avoid interpreting my comments as a blanket hostility to meds. I'm not 100% in that category. I'm more like 85-95% skeptical that meds fit most folks with anxiety disorders--particularly beyond an initial assist to calm down sufficiently to begin the hard work of rewiring their brains and lives.

In terms of Depression, the research is quite clear for the vast majority of people--even with pretty severe depression--Cognitive Behavioral Therapy wins hands down.

In terms of the 'biochemical' 'predisposition' to depression . . . that can easily get into the argument over which came first, the chicken or the egg.

GIVEN that . . . as The Book says, . . .

AS A MAN THINKS IN HIS HEART, [color=6699CC]SO IS HE!

and

GIVEN that it has now been scientifically demonstrated that WHAT WE THINK EXTENSIVELY, CHRONICALLY, PERSISTENTLY ON;

WHAT WE SPEAK PERSISTENTLY, CHRONICALLY

INFLUENCES, CHANGES

[color=6699CC]EVEN our VERY DNA!

Then it is entirely plausible that our thoughts and speaking have generated the purported 'biochemical predisposition' to Depression and/or anxiety.

THEREFORE, it is just as plausible that chronically thinking and speaking constructive healthy patterns of thought and speach WILL REWIRE the purported 'biochemical predisposition'

TOWARD depression and anxiety

to be

AWAY FROM and resistent to depression and anxiety.

And, INDEED, I have found it so in my own life and in the lives of my clients and students.

In any case, you alone live inside your skin. Even a super wonderful psychiatrist seeing you an hour or 3 a week does not live inside your skin.

You know or at least have a best guess as to what feels best and fits best for the person inside your skin.

Have some faith and courage of your own discernment about yourself and your own priorities that feel like the best fit for your concerns and where you are at this moment in your life. Next week can change things. Next month can change things. You do have the present and you can make intelligent judgments and decisions about now because you have more than ample mental horsepower to do that.

[color=6699CC]And, I'm 100% for WHAT WORKS!
[color=6699CC]If something I suggest does not work for an individual,
[color=6699CC]THEY SHOULD TRASH IT!
[color=6699CC]IF IT WORKS--KEEP ON KEEPING ON as long as it works!

And I'll applaud whatever you choose, that's functional FOR YOU.

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Originally posted by Alexander1111
Oh my! This is quite a lot to digest. Please allow me some time to read all of your posts and be able to digest their content and I will get back to you.

Alexander

TAKE YOUR TIME.

IT'S YOUR LIFE!

I just enjoy seeing folks make progress to the sort of better life they seek, that's constructive and functional for them.

reply to post by BO XIAN


I have answered all of the questions you made Bo Xian up to the point where you ask of me to do a summary about panic attacks. My answers when viewed in whole are very revealing regarding my life and I wouldn't like to post them here, in common view. I do wish however that other people should also be benefited from it, so please tell me what would be the best course of action.

reply to post by Alexander1111



Wellllll, you could do a number of things.

1. You could invite folks you trust to ask for a U2U summary.

2. You could translate the narrative into parables using metaphors that had nothing to do with your life but illustrated viable dynamics that would be educational for folks with some discernment and wisdom, knowledge to ponder the examples you translated into other metaphors.

3. The metaphors could involve animals or Lord of the Rings characters or Biblical characters or characters from a popular TV show or any number of such things.

5. You could lay the narratives aside and summarize what you have learned in cryptic terms that did not per se implicate any specific other persons in your life.

6. You could summarize what you learned in terms of actions you plan to take accordingly without getting into the foundational learnings that suggested those actions.

7. IF those suggestions are not sufficient, let me know and I'll see what else I can come up with.

CONGRATS ON YOUR HARD WORK. It SOUNDS like you've already made a huge amount of progress. I'm impressed!

YEA YOU!

Thanks for sharing that much.

I hope you have written such in a journal that will be fruitful for your reflective pondering over the next hours, days, weeks. At some point, as a milestone of growth, it COULD be useful to burn it in a graduation ceremony. But for now, I hope you keep it around to milk it for all the usefulness for your growth that it might provide.

CHEERS!

IF you wish to U2U such to me, I'd be honored. If you want my email, I'm happy to give it to you.

Blessings,

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reply to post by BO XIAN


Well, Bo Xian. You are very inventive! I will send you my answers per email if you would be so kind to give me your address and I will think about how I could share it all with those who follow this thread.

Alexander

Originally posted by Alexander1111
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

Well, Bo Xian. You are very inventive! I will send you my answers per email if you would be so kind to give me your address and I will think about how I could share it all with those who follow this thread.

Alexander

I can't take credit for the inventiveness. God gave me the brain as well as the education and extensive training and conditioning over my 65 years. And, for around 50 of those years, whenever I felt stuck or needed a solution, I've asked Him for His creativity. He's been very faithful to provide a surprising amount, imho. He hasn't always given me the sorts of solutions I was looking for nor in the timing I always sought. But He has still been incredibly faithful. So, I keep asking. And He keeps delivering. PRAISE GOD FOR THAT!

Thanks much for your kind words.

THANKS TONS for the honor of your kind and quick response and the honor of your trust.

I've sent you my email.

If you want any help with your draft to share more publically, would be humbled and honored to help with that.

You might need me what you particularly want to keep out of the public view and what particularly you desire to have public readers key-in on.

Cheers for your rapid progress and hard work in coming to terms with the things that hold you back.

VERY VERY IMPRESSIVE. Given that alone, i'd say you have a great prognosis for getting beyond your besetting hindrances.

CONGRATS.
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PROBABLY going to take a nap shortly. Should be awake again in 1-3 hours.
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reply to post by Alexander1111

Hello my friend, I know people have always given you advice you already know . Now I am not personally one for medications seeing as though I think they simply mask the "problem" and don't address the root . I was on a certain anti-anxiety medication for quite sometime,and it did indeed do wonders (because it all it did was mess me up not to notice anything), I literally lost years due to taking extensive medications, my best years at that.. What happened when I came off was even worse, I weened myself off and I had to adjust to the world without them. It took quite a while and the hardest part was doing it without the meds another reason I suggest not taking them... Here is what might help , Don't get on the computer or watch TV for a little while, It is indeed harder than it sounds. I know that is not the root of the problem, but it will help a lot by forcing you to do things you don't normally do. Next, start by exercising, possibly going running or jogging outside it will ease you back into "the world" and will make you feel way healthier and feel better about a lot. After you do these start hanging out with the people you know are your friends and just hang out,and don't exclude yourself from certain things just because it's uncomfortable. Then after a while you'll be used to it all again, and it will eventually fall back into place. And you'll be over all of that, and if you exercised, maybe even feeling extra confident . and ready to talk to the lady's again with ease.(not saying that you aren't/can't now). You know it's not gonna be, and won't be like this forever or much longer. So find solace in that my friend. It may take some time .. You already know you can train your mind, Start today.

reply to post by BO XIAN


And I've sent you my answers, Bo Xian. I will await your reply so that I can see how much personal information will be needed to be concealed for your reply to make sense to others.

What you are doing is truly altruistic. I only hope that I will also someday be able to put my knowledge into use for the service to man.

reply to post by Alexander1111



You are quite welcome.

The only personal info I recall was the relatives stuff.

You could generically lump everyone together as undifferentied "loved ones" and IF that is sufficient cover for you--OK.

I don't recall off the top of my head that any of that is really necessary to share with folks publically. Virtually all of it is positive.

It sounds like school stuff has been the most . . . challenging--as you've already said upthread.

I'll sleep on it for a nap and respond more fully by email. Then you can take it from there as to what to share publically.

I'm greatly encouraged that you have a number of trusted loved ones who could probably kind of lead you by the hand or at least stand alongside of you and help you take bite-sized steps of progress frequently. That is all that's necessary for you to walk out of your prison.

I can likely suggest several things, after a nap, that you could begin to apply in the next day or 3.

IF you keep up the level of efforts I've seen you make in the last 24 hours, you *COULD* BE OVER 50-80% OF YOUR PROBLEMS in such areas within 30-90 days. You *could* be over 95% of such problems within 3-12 months.

I love relating to someone as seemingly eager as you, to walk away from the stuff holding them back from a more fulfilling, robust life of FREEDOM!

CONGRATS. You're a wonderful thrill for this old codger.

Thx.

reply to post by Alexander1111



I suggest, would like for you to . . .

begin to see the

fear of what others think of you . . .

Wellll, did you see the movie from 20 years or so ago . . . Whoopie Goldberg and Swazie sp?

GHOST?

Remember those dark demonic forms rising up out of the ground to drag folks down to hell with them?

Not getting into the hell/heaven aspects per se but just picture such forces

AS THE FEAR OF WHAT OTHERS THINK OF YOU

dragging you down from the mountain of your own successes, achievements, fulfillments, joys, overcoming, WARM RELATIONSHIPS, healthy pride, etc.

Perhaps begin, THEN to imagine a big sword or powerful declarations or whatever else you can imagine to banish such pressures and forces from your life--to CUT THEM OFF from ANY effectiveness with you, AT ALL.

And, I'd like you to begin work on a music composition of your own creation . . .

a kind of ANTHEM . . .

Imagine that you have been away on an intergalactic war for 30 years . . . maybe like ENDER IN ENDER'S GAME

and you're coming back to earth as the champion and hero of the whole galaxy.

And you're to be presented to the king of the world . . . and you are writing the ANTHEM for your 'coronation' as the

HERO OF THE GALAXY OF THE MILLENIUM.

That kind of triumphant anthem. You can do it, I'm quite confident.

It doesn't need to be long. Copeland's FANFARE FOR THE COMMON MAN is not that long. About that long would be great.

And here I am still not down for a nap yet.

LOL.

later,

reply to post by BO XIAN


Thank you, Bo!

Wow, such an interesting assignment. It looks like it addresses my fears and interests in life and combines them into something meaningful. I will most eagerly do that! Thank you!

Originally posted by Alexander1111
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

Thank you, Bo!

Wow, such an interesting assignment. It looks like it addresses my fears and interests in life and combines them into something meaningful. I will most eagerly do that! Thank you!

edit on 18-3-2012 by Alexander1111 because: (no reason given)

You're exceedingly welcome.

I thought you might relate to it that way. Wonderful.

After you've done that . . . it will be further useful in hopefully interesting and powerful ways.

CONGRATS

1. --on your attitude
2. --on your diligence
3. --on your cooperation
4. --on your quick achievements
5. --on your warm friendliness
6. --on your very pleasant and inviting personality
7. --on your courage
8. --on your persistence
9. --on your resourcefulness
10. --on your quick understanding
11. --on your quick application of your insights and assignments
12. --on your in-depth perceptiveness

YEA!

PTL.

THANK YOU!

reply to post by Alexander1111



I was about to give you some of the first practical bite-sized steps assignments on the items you most want to make progress on.

However, it occurred to me that I would likely help you more by not burying you under an avalanch of assignments so fast. LOL.

So, I think I'll either wait until you respond more . . . or write a draft email msg and send it only after you respond more. And then you can help decide what's fitting for the thread from all that.

Of course, you can ask whatever you want to ask along the way, too.

BTW, were your classes in Germany in English or German?

Cheers.
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reply to post by BO XIAN


Ok, I am currently composing the piece. I will try to finish it after work today and maybe also do the summaries.

The classes were in German and yes, it was more aggravating for me because my German isn't so good as my English is...

Originally posted by Alexander1111
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

Ok, I am currently composing the piece. I will try to finish it after work today and maybe also do the summaries.

The classes were in German and yes, it was more aggravating for me because my German isn't so good as my English is...

CONGRATULATIONS! YEA!

WONDERFUL!

Wasn't that big a rush but I'm not about to complain about such great diligence and a super attitude!

You might begin to ask initially about 3-4 of your loved ones and soonish about 8 or so . . . if they'd be willing to help with our project.

And, you can be thinking of 3-4 things you'd like to teach them about something that you know very well . . . music . . . some other aspect of art . . . perhaps a science fiction short story . . . perhaps your ideas about a utopian planet. Nothing complicated . . . just some ideas to sort of mull around in the back of your mind.

And . . . when you're out shopping . . . you can sort of begin to experiment with "ACTING IN."

Others may think of it as "acting out" and misbehaving but in this case it will be, technically "ACTING IN." Acting in is doing things that may be uncommon for you but which would be in the service of personal growth.

Now, for the black berry jam exercise--you'd do best doing that alone--I think--but your decision.

For at least half the others, take 1-3 loved ones with you. However, they cannot accompany you unless they are going to be 100% positive, fun, cheery, smiling etc. They MUST NOT look at you at all seriously askance or seriously skeptical or seriously juding you etc. They must be fun. They must be affirming--your fans--out on the town together.

The black berry jam on the white shirt is say a more medium level example.

But you could start much more simply . . . and, of course, take into account the tolerable parameters of German society. The goal is NOT to get you locked up or taken to the funny farm! LOL.

You might wear one white sock and one red one. Trouble with that one is that most people won't even notice.

Perhaps you could wear one athletic Nike and one dress shoe--just so their soles are not so different that you limp!

Or, you could try and bark authentically at a dog you pass in the park.

Or you could go around with a pencil in one ear or one in both ears--I mean with your ears as a pencil holder with the pencil on top of the ears--wedged between the ear and your head. Watch out and avoid rough-housing with the pencils on your head. Don't want anyone injured!

Or you could go to a thrift store--if they have them there--and get an old cap or hat and cut it 3/4's into front to back. That is, you'll end up with 3/4ths of the hat to wear and wear that once on a public outing.

You could strike a mime pose at a mall. . . . and hold it for 30-90 seconds.

You could make funny faces at a curious happy go lucky type child.

You could go to a mall with a dozen roses or daffodills and hand one out to the old ladies you come across.

You get the idea. You should come up with 3-5 of your own ideas.

Anyway--I'll stop there.

THANKS FOR BEING YOUR BRIGHT DILIGENT COOPERATIVE SELF. Great fun.

reply to post by BO XIAN


This is so exciting, but also so incredibly hard! I am determined however. I am thinking of doing the black berry jam thing on Monday when is my next appointment with my psychotherapist where I go with the bus and have to walk in the centre of the city for a good 10 minutes.

I have composed a couple of minutes from the composition and I think today I will only be focusing on that. If i finish the composition sooner than I expect I will try to do the panic attack summary as well.

It's very difficult. Only the thought of doing all these makes me so anxious. I will try tomorrow to wear two different shoes and maybe wear a T shirt that has a hole at a visible place.

Thank you again!