$1.00 in Insurance Premiums to pay for Abortion

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

I am pro-life and I will refuse to pay for abortion premiums on my
insurance.Why should I pay this when I am 57 years old and have
had a hysterectomy?

For the same reason I should pay for your medicare, even though ill never get to use it.

Originally posted by Under Water
And how about, oh wait, here is a simple one, USE A F-ING CONDOM!

I actually was wearing condoms constantly when my gf got pregnant and I am very happy that we could choose abortion because of many reasons.

First, we we're together only for 3 months.
Second, we both had #ty jobs making less than 20k a year full time.

Since then, she's gone back to school and now does a better salary and I am planing to do the same now.

If we both make 30k a year and she ends up pregnant again, I don't think we'll be able to go trough another abortion since the reasons to abort wouldn't be righteous anymore.

Originally posted by Under Water
USE A F-ING CONDOM! Seriously, use a condom v/s kill future members of the human race, which do you think is more humane? Or maybe, just maybe, educate kids on on the consequences of sex.

Well...we at last agree. Of course, IDEALLY we would fix the adoption system. In fact...I'll do you one better. I think we would have a whole lot less kids who are even given up for adoption in the first place if we fixed our economic system. What better way to assist a resource strapped "system" than than to treat the CAUSE instead of just mitigating the symptoms? Granted...I'm not an economist, nor have I studied the requisite knowledge in depth enough to know all of the specifics....but it sure does seem to me that one of...if not THE biggest reason kids are "unwanted" in the first place is due to economic reasons, right?
How often do perfectly financially secure or well-to-do women have abortions (rape, incest, and life-threatening conditions aside)? Again...I have no idea specifically...but from an observational perspective it seems that the overwhelming majority of abortions occur with poor, single mothers OR young women who are so terrified of becoming a poor, single mother that they are unwilling to risk/sacrifice their education to do so.

I'm not a woman (obviously), but I have met precious few who don't come sort of hard-wired to like babies...no surprise it's an evolutionary advantage and has been developed and refined for over a million years. There are SOME women who don't have the "mothering instinct" as a natural part of their personality...but my observations have been that this number is pretty small.

We tried this in the '70's and 80's...and what we got was a whole lot of inner cities and trailer parks occupied by professional baby-makers looking to increase their benefit amounts. To be clear...I don't think that being an unwanted baby is really any better than being a baby who is wanted solely for the purpose of a paycheck. Both existences are equally abhorrent, in my opinion and I would surmise that both categories have pretty comparable rates of child abuse, abandonment, imprisonment, drug addiction, etc.

Is it best to use birth control? You bet...but a whole lot of the same people who have problems with abortion are also fighting tooth and nail to exclude birth control from insurance as well. I'm not saying that you are...the thread is about abortion, not birth control...but I hope you see the point.

Condoms are the one form of birth control that everybody seems to support because they don't increase their insurance premiums...but let's face it...sometimes those things break. They're not a 100%. Meanwhile a whole lot of the same people who oppose both abortion and prescription-covered birth control are ALSO against the "morning after pill" which is easily the most rational solution to this problem given that most conceptions don't even occur in the first 24 hours, hence it most likely isn't "abortion" in any sense. So now the only people who can't buy this over the counter are the ones who need it the most...single women under the age of 18.

Likewise, a whole lot of the same people who are against all of the above want to also maintain that teenager's have pre-marital sex is "bad" and push as hard as they can to make sure that condoms are not in schools and put age restraints on things like the morning after pill. And even more so if their taxes go up a lousy $15 / year to support the effort in low-income areas where even a $10 box of condoms might be a challenge to buy at times.

So what does the right wing want? To place a ban on low-income demographic screwing and raise an entire generation of 30 yr old virgins until they get married? Just hope that teenage boys will turn down a willing and eager girlfriend until payday comes and/or they get married? LOL. Have you ever met a 19 yr old boy? If something like that happened...it would be the first time in the history of the damn world. LOL.

Something has got to give. Poor people and young people are not going to stop having sex. Ever. Likewise, if you have lots of unwanted babies or babies made just for paychecks...you will pay for it later in the costs of fighting crime, drug addiction, etc. If we expand birth control and even (gasp!) HELP TO SUBSIDIZE IT...ESPECIALLY FOR MINORS with our taxes, insurance premiums or both, we can avoid lots and lots of abortions in the first place AND save money as a society in the long run. Option 3 is to steer clear of any and all abortion/birth control issues and just make sure that poor and single mothers are not economically motivated to abort...but now we have a welfare society and everybody's taxes will REALLY go up.

Any way you look at it...SOMEBODY is going to be paying money on their taxes, insurance premiums, or both for things which might be against their IDEALS in order to address our REALITY, right?

Originally posted by User8911

Originally posted by milominderbinder
It's only "wrong" to abort babies. Once they born it's perfectly OK to let them die slow, lingering deaths by starvation...especially if they starve to death in a "free market".

Pro-life conservatives never want no one to control anything in their lives even if it was for their own good, but when it comes to abortion, they don't mind to hypocriticaly remove that right to everyone...even if later they wouldn't chip in 1$ to help that child have a good life.

Exactly. You gotta love a demographic that is against preventing unwanted pregnancies, terminating unwanted pregnancies, AND dealing with the fallout if the first two actions are not taken.

The rationale being "it wasn't that way in the '50's and 60's when America was 'good' and stuff". Nevermind, that in this 50's and 60's America any semi-literate douchebag without a high school diploma could still afford a middle class existence just by going to work as a mindless drone on one of the nations many assembly lines and energy was so cheap as to practically be FREE.

...you know...just like it is today, right?

Originally posted by milominderbinder It's only "wrong" to abort babies. Once they born it's perfectly OK to let them die slow, lingering deaths by starvation...especially if they starve to death in a "free market".

Originally posted by User8911 Pro-life conservatives never want no one to control anything in their lives even if it was for their own good, but when it comes to abortion, they don't mind to hypocriticaly remove that right to everyone...even if later they wouldn't chip in 1$ to help that child have a good life.

Originally posted by milominderbinder Exactly. You gotta love a demographic that is against preventing unwanted pregnancies, terminating unwanted pregnancies, AND dealing with the fallout if the first two actions are not taken.

Not everyone falls into a religious or political group as motivation for their beliefs. I would volunteer to donate $10 per month from my premiums to go towards creating a better, safer, and more efficient adoption system as well as better education for teens. But I refuse to let even 1 penny go towards abortions. For me, it's where I draw the line. It's just unacceptable because I believe (even though not everyone does) that it is mortally wrong.

I also think you misunderstand the right leaning members of society. They don't want to be forced to give money just anywhere. They want to donate by choice. They believe humans are generally good enough to help other humans in need. The left constantly tries to sell the image of the right as being selfish and wanting the sick to die and the poor to starve. This is simply not true. The right doesn't want any of those things. The right believes that if you let the gov take control of this, it will be wasteful, and in the long run, there will be better chances for corruption and the sick and poor will just suffer even more. They don't want to see people suffer, they just don't want the government to take over and screw it up. They believe the people will do a better job on their own.

Is it best to use birth control? You bet...but a whole lot of the same people who have problems with abortion are also fighting tooth and nail to exclude birth control from insurance as well. I'm not saying that you are...the thread is about abortion, not birth control...but I hope you see the point.

This is a problem because like I said, not all people can be lumped into a religious or political group. For me personally, I do believe prevention is the answer, not abortion. And that whole birth control thing has gotten so out of control that once again, the intentions are being distorted. No one is fighting to exclude it from insurance. It's already not covered by insurance. I'll break it down for you because I've also spoke loud about this problem:

SF stands up and says women everywhere have the right to birth control yet it is not covered by insurance. We think this is unfair and if insurance won't give it to us free, then the government to give it to us free. (keyword here being FREE)

Now here are the misconceptions:

Conservatives don't want you to have access to birth control.
False. Everyone has access to birth control like they have access to soda, alcohol or cigarettes. Go to Walmart and pick up a month's supply for 10.00. Easy.

Conservatives don't believe in women's rights and don't want your insurance to cover birth control.
Big False. We don't want the government providing it for free because our country is broke and in desperate need of welfare reform. We would love the insurance companies to pay for it, but we believe in a free market society and if insurance refuses to include it because they believe they would go under, well then that is their prerogative. Again, simple solution, go to Walmart and just buy the stuff for 10.00. For crying out loud, most women spend more than that on makeup, shoes, and daily coffee. Prioritize people! But see, that's the problem, we live in a society that doesn't know how to manage money because it gets by on credit. No one remembers how to budget or balance a checkbook anymore.

Originally posted by mamabeth

I AM NOT ON SOCIAL SECURITY!

You're not old enough for either Medicare or Social Security.

Are you going to turn it down when you are?

Originally posted by Under Water
Now here are the misconceptions:

Conservatives don't want you to have access to birth control.
False. Everyone has access to birth control like they have access to soda, alcohol or cigarettes. Go to Walmart and pick up a month's supply for 10.00. Easy.
Conservatives don't believe in women's rights and don't want your insurance to cover birth control.
Big False. We don't want the government providing it for free because our country is broke and in desperate need of welfare reform. We would love the insurance companies to pay for it, but we believe in a free market society and if insurance refuses to include it because they believe they would go under, well then that is their prerogative. Again, simple solution, go to Walmart and just buy the stuff for 10.00. For crying out loud, most women spend more than that on makeup, shoes, and daily coffee. Prioritize people! But see, that's the problem, we live in a society that doesn't know how to manage money because it gets by on credit. No one remembers how to budget or balance a checkbook anymore.

edit on 15-3-2012 by Under Water because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-3-2012 by Under Water because: spelling

Oh...I know. That's why I was careful to point out that you, yourself, was not saying "no" to birth control too. I also agree with you on the idea that there are MANY "right wings" and many "left wings". I voted for Obama last time because I was appalled at George W.'s unwarranted and unwinnable wars, subversion of civil liberties via the Patriot Act, and the bank bailouts.

What did I get for voting to the "left"...same damn thing. Undeclared war in Lybia, saber-rattling against Iran, insurance and auto bailouts, and the NDAA. Meanwhile, every other problem the nation was faces continues to be not addressed.

These days...I'm all about Ron Paul. I personally disagree with his stance on abortion, but I am willing to set aside my ideals and beliefs in exchange for the greater good. I think Ron Paul is far more interested in treating CAUSES than in perpetuating symptoms. Compromise isn't a bad thing.

However, the current birth control debate with the Catholic Church and whatnot is where the "right wing" logic becomes completely irrational. The argument is that "The Government" is imposing it's will on the people's religious beliefs....which is utter nonsense. I've seen a couple different figures for Catholic women who use birth control (or did in the past if applicable) and they have ALL been north of 97%...the highest was like a 99.8% or some such thing. Besides...who the hell is the Catholic Church to get on a soapbox about sexual morality given their 2000 year history of child molestation on every continent on earth, save Antarctica?

Therefore, "The Government" is simply instructing the "The Church" that they cannot any longer skate out of their prescription health care costs BECAUSE "The People" don't really believe in the rhetoric anymore. Corporations are not People. Neither are Unions, Church's, Lobbying Firms, or any other legal entity composed of a vast number of people.

That's the part where I don't like the "left wing" rhetoric. They are quick to jump on the idea that "Corporations are not people"...but refuse to acknowledge the same of their precious unions....really...what's the difference?

In "Big Government" the people lose because the government runs amok. In "Small Government" the people lose because the corporations run amok. If we move to "DIRECT GOVERNMENT" in which the PEOPLE are empowered to make decisions without all these parasitic middle men of congress people, unions, lobbyists, propaganda machines, religious zealotry, etc. we would have a lot less problems.

Unfortunately "right wing" utopia is one in which corporations, religion, and lobbyists decide our future and "left wing" utopia is one in which corporations, social workers, and lobbyists decide our future. Both ways suck. However...until Ron Paul gets elected I just don't think one person's belief that abortion is murder should trump my belief that war is murder. Let the soldiers pay for their own damn bullets.

Personally, I find unprotected, pre-marital teenage sex, to be a whole more moral, ethical, and responsible than killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's who just happened to be in the way of our bombs. Sooo....why can't I "just say no" to war? Note: that statement is more an indictment of warfare than a cheer for unprotected teenage sex. LOL.

However...perhaps the most empowering thing of all would be if humans had some say in where their tax dollars went, huh? Maybe human beings tax money all gets spent domestically and the corporations support the military? Seems fair, since it's the corporations that we are securing the oil fields for in the first place. I betcha our schools get better fast.

Just a thought.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Guess what? All the years that I paid into the system was flushed
down the toilet.What do you think should be done to us baby boomers,
line us all up and shoot us?

reply to post by milominderbinder


I have been a stay-at-home housewife for over 10 years!
Why should I work outside of my home when my hubby
has a good job?
You want someone to take your frustrations out on...how
about the illegals who are getting benefits when they NEVER
contributed to the system in the first place.

There is a simple solution for those (including myself) that don't want to fund abortion.....pick a plan that doesn't offer the coverage on elective abortion.

From the OPs source.

which requires all persons enrolled in insurance plans that include elective abortion coverage to pay a separate premium from their own pockets to fund abortion.

No where does it say all insurance plans must cover elective abortion...it specifically says those enrolled in a plan that includes elective abortion...which leads me to believe not all insurance plans in the state exchanges will include this.

reply to post by mamabeth


Its really a fallacy that illegals don't contribute to the system.

They come here for jobs and education. If they have jobs they are paying taxes.

You staying home are not paying taxes.

reply to post by milominderbinder


I happen to drive a volvo v70 stationwagon.I get around 28-30 miles
per gallon.I pay around $210.00 every 6 months for my car insurance.
I suggest that you get off your high horse about ME PERSONALLY
costing YOU money.
I can take care of myself.I know how to shoot,garden,make my own jellies
and jams.I am an end times prepper.I am even planning on living off the grid
in a cabin in the woods sometime very soon.I won't be a burden,can you really
say the same?

reply to post by Annee


I paid into the system from 1973-2002!

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
There is a simple solution for those (including myself) that don't want to fund abortion.....pick a plan that doesn't offer the coverage on elective abortion.

From the OPs source.

which requires all persons enrolled in insurance plans that include elective abortion coverage to pay a separate premium from their own pockets to fund abortion.

No where does it say all insurance plans must cover elective abortion...it specifically says those enrolled in a plan that includes elective abortion...which leads me to believe not all insurance plans in the state exchanges will include this.

This is why early in the thread i mentioned that I called to talk to my insurance rep. He told me it was everyone starting in 2014. He said there was nothing I could do to not participate, but he also didn't believe it would stick due to the uproar of people calling to complain. So I don't know, maybe that is how all their policies are written. I had him update my policy, make a few changes here and there and voila, $200.00 per month savings from one phone call! Great side effect from calling about the abortion thing. Going into effect next month!

Anyway, I got flamed for posting about calling my insurance agent since i can not provide proof of it, so I suggested anyone to call their insurance rep and see what they say. I for one would be curious to hear it from more than one insurance company.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Since you seem to think that YOU paid for my hysterectomy I had
back in 1998.Do you want me to write you a check to reimburse you
for your financial lose?
Or...would you prefer to have my SS and claim me off your taxes as
a dependent?

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Guess what? All the years that I paid into the system was flushed
down the toilet.What do you think should be done to us baby boomers,
line us all up and shoot us?

Nope. Just the ones that are so selfish they think they deserve to dictate how every penny of their insurance premiums are spent while also being surprised that GenX'ers will the same of them.

Your generation has destroyed everything it has ever touched. Your parents built the greatest country in the world and somehow in a span of about 25 yrs you guys have run every institution this country has absolutely bankrupt and incompetent.

Sorry....but no special favors for you guys just because of your holier-than-thou-art "beliefs". Again...I think soldiers should buy their own bullets and cops should be buying all of their own cars, guns, tasers, and pepper spray. So if you get to have your panties in a bunch over government funded abortions, I hope you have no problems with dissolving the military and every police department in the country.

After all...the military and police kill people every day, right? The military has killed more people than all the abortions combined. Why don't you whine about your tax dollars going there for awhile?

Fair is fair.

reply to post by milominderbinder


My generation destroyed everything,hummm.
I used to drink milk that was delivered to my home by a milkman.
My milk was in a glass bottle,not a plastic jug.I used to drink water
from a faucet,garden hose or fountain.Now it is all plastic bottles and
treated tap water sold as mountain spring.
I played outside,rode my bike and got a lot of fresh air in my lungs.Kids'
these days are glued to their video games,ipods and cellphones.When I
was a kid, computers we have today, was science fiction back then.
Listen here kid,I can't be held responsible for what people did before 1955.
A lot of problems you are complaining about were most likely created by
people who were in college while I was in grade school.

I used glass bottles to feed my baby.I used cloth diapers on my baby.I didn't
have baby wipes,I used washcloths.So,tell me again how my generation
destroyed everything?

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by mamabeth

 

Its really a fallacy that illegals don't contribute to the system.

They come here for jobs and education. If they have jobs they are paying taxes.

You staying home are not paying taxes.

Wait a sec, totally different topic but I couldn't let that slip by without commenting. A blanket statement saying "If they have jobs, they are paying taxes" is flat out false. I think you know better but didn't feel it necessary to drag the point out.

Also, if I never "worked" again, I'm still paying taxes. Property tax, gas tax, sales tax, just to name a few. If I cared to look it up, I could probably find dozens more.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

I happen to drive a volvo v70 stationwagon.I get around 28-30 miles
per gallon.I pay around $210.00 every 6 months for my car insurance.
I suggest that you get off your high horse about ME PERSONALLY
costing YOU money.
I can take care of myself.I know how to shoot,garden,make my own jellies
and jams.I am an end times prepper.I am even planning on living off the grid
in a cabin in the woods sometime very soon.I won't be a burden,can you really
say the same?

Well, now that I know you can make jellies and garden I guess that changes everything. You should no doubt get afforded a special status that no one else in the country does whereby all of your money can ONLY go to causes you "believe" in and use yourself. Let's not forget that your original post was you expressed how baffled you were $1.00 of your insurance premiums would go to abortion because you are 57 and had a hysterectomy.

...and yes you WILL be a burden if you plan on collecting social security. The fact that you are holing up in a cabin doesn't change this.

Lastly...stop feeling so damn persecuted about me pointing out that all things YOU want public funding for is costing ME money. It's the same exact stance you took with being too cheap to cough up a $1.00 on your insurance premium for a medical procedure that you, yourself do not benefit from.

Thanks for proving my point about the whole self-centered thing though. It's always "different" when someone wants to cut out all the elderly care programs that you feel you are entitled to.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

My generation destroyed everything,hummm.
I used to drink milk that was delivered to my home by a milkman.
My milk was in a glass bottle,not a plastic jug.I used to drink water
from a faucet,garden hose or fountain.Now it is all plastic bottles and
treated tap water sold as mountain spring.
I played outside,rode my bike and got a lot of fresh air in my lungs.Kids'
these days are glued to their video games,ipods and cellphones.When I
was a kid, computers we have today, was science fiction back then.
Listen here kid,I can't be held responsible for what people did before 1955.
A lot of problems you are complaining about were most likely created by
people who were in college while I was in grade school.

I used glass bottles to feed my baby.I used cloth diapers on my baby.I didn't
have baby wipes,I used washcloths.So,tell me again how my generation
destroyed everything?

edit on 15-3-2012 by mamabeth because: (no reason given)

I don't think we have to go back to 1955. All those glass milk bottles and that clean water and overall less "disposable" existence was from the world of the GI Generation. Just like you said...as a child you wouldn't have had any impact on those things, would you?

Let's just start at the end of the '80's when the last of the GI Generation more or less retired. When they tossed you guys the keys we had the world's greatest economy, the best quality infrastructure and communications network in the world, our arch-nemesis the Soviet Union lay in shambles, a roadmap to clean up the worst of the pollution sites from the Industrial Era, the finest public education system in world, the largest percentage of people covered by medical insurance in the world, and more homeowners than anywhere else as well.

Twenty-two yrs later, the education system is in shambles, Wall Street is nothing more than a crime syndicate, we now start wars instead of finishing them, civic political life has become nothing more than spoiled brats bickering with one another like a bunch of old ladies, every industrialized nation in the world has superior wired and wireless backbones to their networks, the roads are crumbling, we lost a major US city (New Orleans) and would rather let it lie in ruins rather than fix it, the quality of life in has declined, and there really is no end in sight.

If those things were not ALL allowed to happen on the Baby Boomer's watch...then whose watch was it?