$1.00 in Insurance Premiums to pay for Abortion

Originally posted by Under Water
As of yesterday this is now law? www.onenewsnow.com...

I am pro life. I have looked at the evidence, I have paid close attention to my own body while I was pregnant. I have come to the conclusion that abortion is wrong, and I see it as murder. I realize not everyone shares my views, and that is fine. But I refuse to support abortion because I believe it is murder.

So what. I'm against the death penalty, most military spending, farmers getting welfare, and church's continuing to get away without paying taxes.

Unfortunately, living in a society often means compromise. Everybody's gotta take their turn.

Originally posted by Under Water

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by AnoNymousDoN
I don't agree with . . .giving your kid up for adoption.

Neither do I.

How could I birth a child just to be all moral and self righteous - - - then give it away to who knows what kind of life that child might have.

You know, I can understand that fear. Then there is the possibility of confronting that child in the future to explain why you chose to give them up. But I bet 9 times out of 10, that child will appreciate at least being given the chance at life. And most adoptive parents provide wonderful homes for kids. So many women are waiting later in life to have kids and fertility problems are on the rise. All they want is the chance to be a parent. And the process of adoption is so difficult, you can bet most homes will be wonderful healthy homes for these kids, not child molesters waiting for new meat. Call me an optimist, but I believe there are always better options than abortion.

Well...not this one...and my parents kept me. Life isn't some sort of "prize"...it's a punishment. It's endless, endless, sorrow, pain, and misery.

Worst of all...there is no real hope. We live in a world of ever-increasing authoritarian control and ever-dwindling resources. The world has been reduced to a toxic, festering wound. The entire food supply is contaminated and species are dying off daily. Each day that comes the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Every square inch of this planet is already considered to "belong" to someone else.

Quite frankly, being aborted would have been a mercy. I wouldn't bring this hell upon anybody.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Under Water
No, it's a big deal when it involves the mass murder of innocent humans. And yes you are a troll, your only goal is to attempt to ridicule and derail the thread. You have offered no useful content to this debate at all.

A selfish baseless argument. There is Not ONE - - ZERO - - unselfish reason to have a child.

There are many unselfish reasons not to.

18,000 children die every day of hunger, U.N. says

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — Some 18,000 children die every day because of hunger and malnutrition and 850 million people go to bed every night with empty stomachs, a "terrible indictment of the world in 2007," the head of the U.N. food agency said. www.usatoday.com...

Ahhh...you didn't get the memo.

It's only "wrong" to abort babies. Once they born it's perfectly OK to let them die slow, lingering deaths by starvation...especially if they starve to death in a "free market".

Originally posted by Under Water
I believe the laws contradict themselves. I do not believe the laws are acting in the interest of woman's rights, and are instead acting in their goal to reduce the population. They could give a care less about women. Don't let them fool you. They want you to have free contraception and abortions to control the population. Not because they actually care about your right to have sex, or your right to your body not getting fat during pregnancy. They simply don't want you breeding.

Our laws make no sense. They contradict each other.

You kill a pregnant woman, you are charged with multiple counts of murder. Yet a woman can choose to have a doctor kill her own unborn child and it's legal. Does this mean it's only life if it's wanted?

You injure a pregnant woman and as a result her fetus dies, you get charged with murder/manslaughter depending on the circumstances. Yet a woman can choose to have a doctor kill her own unborn child and it's legal. Does this mean it's only life if it's wanted?

A pregnant teen goes into labor at her high school prom, barely delivers a premature baby, kills it quietly, gets caught and goes to jail. Yet if she had asked her doctor to kill it, it would have been legal.

They call your time of death when your heart stops beating, yet they don't call it life when your heart starts beating in the womb at only 15 days old. So why is it death when your heart stops and not life when it starts?

A doctor can pull the plug on a person being kept "alive" by machines and it's murder, yet they don't consider you alive when your heart is beating in the womb AND your brain has activity. Somehow, a vegetable with no brain activity has more human rights than an unborn who has a beating heart and brain activity.

An unborn in distress can be cut out of the mom, and finish it's development in a hospital, then go on to live a normal life, while an unborn at the same stage is being ripped apart by the abortion process, and it's body parts thrown out with the trash.

We know the heart beats and that there is brain activity from very early on. Just because it hasn't taken on the full size and shape of a baby yet, doesn't make it not alive. We know they can feel, they have reflexes and touch response. And did you know they can start learning from inside the womb? We did it with my daughter. There are games you can play while your pregnant to interact with your baby. Believe it or not, they have the ability to follow a flashlight, just like a cat.

These are our kids, our babies, HUMAN BEINGS! They are innocent. They can't defend themselves.
Now I know until the government finally decides it's convenient to make it law that they are alive and have human rights and protect them, there will be people who either don't want to believe it's murder, or just haven't done enough digging to see the facts for themselves. What people do to their own kids is on their conscience, not mine. But please, don't make me fund something that I obviously see as murder. Worse than murder... crimes against humanity. Whether you agree with me or not, respect the fact that this is what many of us truly believe in our hearts, and it is cruel to make us feel as though we are taking part in it, by paying for it.

What's cruel is bringing unwanted children into this world. Personally, I can't think of much that would be more sadistic than that.

Your standpoint presupposes that life is worth living. Perhaps it is for you and most of the people you know. However there are many of us out here who curse the day we born and wonder what we ever did in a past life that was so wrong so as to deserve this.

It's a harsh fact of life...but sometimes death is a kindness and a blessing.

I won't ask you to change your beliefs. I only ask that you please consider this next time you rob an infant's chance at sweet oblivion and instead force them into a world where their only memories will be of a world where they have been hated, resented, and abused from day one.

reply to post by Under Water


So, I have a question for you. Let's assume you're insured, covering yourself, your daughter and your husband if you are married. If your insurance company sent you a letter saying that $1 of your premium would be going to support people that want to have abortions, what would you do about it? Would you be willing to drop coverage for you and your family to make a statement?

Originally posted by DelMar
reply to post by Under Water

 

So, I have a question for you. Let's assume you're insured, covering yourself, your daughter and your husband if you are married. If your insurance company sent you a letter saying that $1 of your premium would be going to support people that want to have abortions, what would you do about it? Would you be willing to drop coverage for you and your family to make a statement?

That's a good one.

Not only deny rights to others - - - but give up protection of your own family in protest by the strength of your morals.

what does a human child's life cost in america. now we know, it's apparently $1.

Originally posted by randomname
what does a human child's life cost in america. now we know, it's apparently $1.

That doesn't even make sense.

Originally posted by milominderbinder
It's only "wrong" to abort babies. Once they born it's perfectly OK to let them die slow, lingering deaths by starvation...especially if they starve to death in a "free market".

Pro-life conservatives never want no one to control anything in their lives even if it was for their own good, but when it comes to abortion, they don't mind to hypocriticaly remove that right to everyone...even if later they wouldn't chip in 1$ to help that child have a good life.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I am pro-life and I will refuse to pay for abortion premiums on my
insurance.Why should I pay this when I am 57 years old and have
had a hysterectomy?

reply to post by boymonkey74


Taxes are different than a company you are paying for a service? If it was public healthcare and part of peoples taxes were going to abortion then there is nothing they could do, but if it is a provider you choose you should be able to opt out if there is an additional, set fee as implied in the thread title.

It almost begs for an option with the 1.00 business.

At least in my opinion. In all honesty, I don't care as I am pro choice. The abortion (and now out of no where contraception issue - I thought that one was dead!) are all distractions in my opinion.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

I am pro-life and I will refuse to pay for abortion premiums on my
insurance.Why should I pay this when I am 57 years old and have
had a hysterectomy?

BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE (INCLUDING THOSE WITHOUT A VAGINA) HAD TO "PAY" FOR YOUR HYSTERECTOMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm a male. Therefore, I don't want any of my premiums going to pay for hysterectomies, pap smears, or mammograms. Likewise you are 57 and I am 33. Therefore, I don't want any of my premiums going to pay for any conditions commonly or primarily associated with middle and old age. This includes heart disease, arthritis, alzheimer's, and about 2/3 of the rest of medical care.

Therefore, have fun dying in the street. Social Security and Medicare are gone TOMORROW, and as a result the medical industry decides to make up the gap in their revenue by cranking up prices on private sector insurance until NOBODY can afford it and/or every medical care provider in the company goes bankrupt as they struggle to pay off all those million-dollar diagnostic machines and simultaneously keep the lights on in now very much empty hospital.

I swear the garden variety American Baby Boomer is the most selfish, short sighted, arrogant, foolish, and heartless creature that has every walked planet earth.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

Taxes are different than a company you are paying for a service? If it was public healthcare and part of peoples taxes were going to abortion then there is nothing they could do, but if it is a provider you choose you should be able to opt out if there is an additional, set fee as implied in the thread title.

It almost begs for an option with the 1.00 business.

At least in my opinion. In all honesty, I don't care as I am pro choice. The abortion (and now out of no where contraception issue - I thought that one was dead!) are all distractions in my opinion.

So what...now each individual person can choose where every penny of their premiums go? When I pay my cellphone bill can I make sure that my money is ONLY spent on the specific spectrums of FCC wireless spectrum that I want? Why should I have to subsidize 4G rollout in all these rural areas if I live in New York?

That's idiotic.

reply to post by milominderbinder


AMERICAN BABY BOOMER

I have insurance,I am not on any government subsidy.
My insurance premiums were taken out of my PAYCHECK
every week!
I AM NOT ON SOCIAL SECURITY!
:

Originally posted by randomname
what does a human child's life cost in america. now we know, it's apparently $1.

Again...this idea starts with the presupposition that being an unwanted child is a life worth living.

Who are you to condemn an innocent baby to a lifetime of suffering being either born to parents who don't want them or getting tossed into "the system" to be bounced around between foster families and state-run facilities?

What could possibly be more cruel and sadistic? Again...death is only "bad" when life holds joy, love, and hope. When it doesn't...death is a mercy.

Life isn't some sort of "prize"...it's a punishment. It's endless, endless, sorrow, pain, and misery.

So because YOU hate life, no one else deserves a chance at it?

Who are you to condemn an innocent baby to a lifetime of suffering being either born to parents who don't want them or getting tossed into "the system" to be bounced around between foster families and state-run facilities?

Who are you to condemn an innocent baby to death instead of giving them the chance at being adopted by a loving home with loving parents who can't have kids of their own and so desperately want to adopt???

rise in adoption

during 2011: more than 130,000 adoptions will be conducted here in the U.S. That's a number that continues to grow.

130,000+ kids getting a chance at life with family who DO WANT them. Do you know anyone who's ever been adopted? Most of them don't hate their life as much as you seem to think they all should.

BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE (INCLUDING THOSE WITHOUT A VAGINA) HAD TO "PAY" FOR YOUR HYSTERECTOMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, this issue isn't about everyone sharing on simple needed medical procedures, it's about forcing people who PAY for their own insurance, to PAY for someone else's abortion, when we clearly don't agree with it and believe it is murder. It is a separate pool from the rest of your premiums and it's created to go towards only this. This seems a bit more touchy than complaining about men's premiums going toward someone needing a hysterectomy. Although from my conversation yesterday with my insurance agent, that's not how it works. Men actually pay lower premiums under the age of 50(something) because they don't need mammograms and historiography.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

AMERICAN BABY BOOMER

I have insurance,I am not on any government subsidy.
My insurance premiums were taken out of my PAYCHECK
every week!
I AM NOT ON SOCIAL SECURITY!

edit on 15-3-2012 by mamabeth because: added

:

edit on 15-3-2012 by mamabeth because: added

You might not be on social security today...but you will be, right? You aren't planning on turning it down once you are eligible are you? Guess who's going to foot the bill for that? My generation. Given that there are a whole lot of Baby Boomers who will be retiring and very few who will be earning the Holy Sacrament of a Paycheck...you guys are screwed, huh?

Secondly...yes your premiums were taken out of your Almighty Paycheck. So what?? You make it sound like your the only person in the whole country who makes one. If we can dictate where our INSURANCE PREMIUMS WHICH ARE DEDUCTED FROM OUR PAYCHECK GO...then I don't want my premiums to cover anything for you.

No hysterectomies or female no female-specific care of any kind. Secondly, I don't want my premiums going to cover a SINGLE DIME of Baby-Boomer related health care. Just like your "beliefs" guide you in refusing to support abortion because you think it's wrong...my "beliefs" guide me to stop supporting Baby Boomers as they are FAR more likely to be more unhealthy than I am as well as far less likely to be working a job right now. A trend which will only INCREASE as time goes on.

It's time we taught these freeloading Baby Boomers a lesson. Do you know how many completely irresponsible 'Boomers there are who don't abstain from eating fried foods who then wind up having a heart attack even while they are retired, not contributing to the economy by having a job, and leaching Medicare and Social Security off the tit of the taxpayer!!! I refuse to support such immorality. God said he only "helps those who help themselves", so if they are going to sit around being lazy under the guise of "retirement" and eating food which they KNOW is unhealthy and expect ME TO TAKE CARE OF THEM with my HARD EARNED MONEY then they have another thing coming to them. By this same logic, I'm going to inform my insurance company today that I don't want any of my auto insurance premiums supporting anyone with an SUV because my "beliefs" are that consuming so much fossil fuels is immoral. Ditto for any and all property damage claims for hurricanes in Florida because I think that it's immoral to build a house in the known path of Hurricanes and expect that my hard-earned paycheck goes to rebuild them all the time. Furthermore, warfare is also "murder"...so I expect that no tax dollars of mine will be going to the military from here on out.

....DO YOU SEE HOW STUPID THAT SOUNDS? The entire system of ALL TYPES OF INSURANCE (health, auto, homeowners, fire, life, liability, E&O, etc) are BASED UPON the idea of diversifying expenses and risk.

I am sorry...but you are not special or unique in any way. Your "beliefs" are no more relevant to what happens with your insurance premium than anyone else's. Your money is no more sacred than anyone else's money. Being employed doesn't give you the right to selectively determine how your insurance premiums (of all things) are directed.

Grow up and get over yourself.

Originally posted by Under Water

Life isn't some sort of "prize"...it's a punishment. It's endless, endless, sorrow, pain, and misery.

So because YOU hate life, no one else deserves a chance at it?

Who are you to condemn an innocent baby to a lifetime of suffering being either born to parents who don't want them or getting tossed into "the system" to be bounced around between foster families and state-run facilities?

Who are you to condemn an innocent baby to death instead of giving them the chance at being adopted by a loving home with loving parents who can't have kids of their own and so desperately want to adopt???

rise in adoption

during 2011: more than 130,000 adoptions will be conducted here in the U.S. That's a number that continues to grow.

130,000+ kids getting a chance at life with family who DO WANT them. Do you know anyone who's ever been adopted? Most of them don't hate their life as much as you seem to think they all should.

edit on 15-3-2012 by Under Water because: (no reason given)

Statistically speaking the probability for unwanted children having this "happy life" you speak of is very, very, low. I know...but one hypothetical "happy life" makes it OK to subject another 5 kids to a lifetime of misery, right?

I'm just flipping the logic around on you to show you how irrational it is. The entire argument for giving kids a "chance" at life is based upon the belief that these kids will ever have a "chance". Kids given up for adoption that happen to be adopted as infants into loving households might. But what about all the kids whom the mother decides to keep? A lot of women have abortions early because if done early enough...no one is the wiser. But carrying the child to full-term they now have all kinds of societal pressures to keep the child. No doubt, a lot of crusading Baby Boomers will be there to "encourage" her to keep it...only to then urge their congressman to cut assistance to young, single mothers. This child now has all the "joy" of belonging to a mother WHO NEVER WANTED THE CHILD IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Ever look at the stats of kids who are not adopted as teeny-tiny infants and are raised in "The System". They are FAR more likely to wind up homeless, in prison, addicted to drugs, working as sex workers, or similar horrible fates. Are there exceptions to the rule? Certainly...but it works both ways. A common pro-life rationale is "What if you abort the baby who would have discovered a cure for cancer?" True...bad news for us...but I suppose we will never know. On the other hand...what if the child who was aborted was the next Adolf Hitler? Hitler was an unwanted child who was frequently abused because of it....look how great he turned out.

Christ almighty, if the kids OWN PARENTS don't want the child...the child will very likely not have a good life. We run public service messages around Christmas cautioning people to not buy puppies as gifts unless THEY ARE SURE they REALLY want it because it's cruel to own a dog you don't care about or give it up to the Humane Society once it has become attached to you. Likewise...it's "cruel" to keep a dog alive and suffering if they are in pain and bad health...but there is no end to the suffering we will put Grandma through when she's begging for death.

How backwards is it to not treat human beings as humanely as we treat dogs? Let people die with dignity already, no matter if their age is 70 or 7 months. It's not always such a bad thing.

The problem is you don't know who will make it to a happy home and who will not. So we just kill them all, they all must die because there is a chance some of them won't be happy? Makes no sense.

You know what else makes no sense, recognizing there is a problem with children ending up in foster care and coming to the conclusion that the only way to solve the problem is to abort them before they become a problem.

How about fixing the adoption system instead? That seems more humane? And how about, oh wait, here is a simple one, USE A F-ING CONDOM! Seriously, use a condom v/s kill future members of the human race, which do you think is more humane? Or maybe, just maybe, educate kids on on the consequences of sex. If people who don't want kids just didn't get pregnant in the first place, we wouldn't even be having this problem! So how about we fix THAT instead of resorting to murdering our young like a bunch of savage unintelligent creatures!