Ariz. sheriff's Obama investigator is making money off this birth certificate investigation

reply to post by bknapple32


Osama was not a US Citizen where the person in question was. Despite whatever allegiance he may have swore he was legally a US citizen and fully entitled to the rights assigned to us all by the Constitution. This is a fine example of facts vs. mindset. You are of the mindset that his alleged crimes justify shredding his Constitutional rights yet the fact of his citizenship clearly means he is entitled to a trial by jury regardless of anyone's opinion.

You didn't comment/respond to my question regarding if facts change due to the mindset of those that uncover those facts.

EDIT TO ADD

You somewhat touched on the question but not in a direct way. Does a fact, a written indisputable fact, somehow change because of the mindset of the person that uncovers it.

reply to post by bknapple32


Anyone who considers this crap to be factual needs to have their head examined.

Critical thinking is something that is sorely missing on ATS with plenty of posters claiming that they have proof in thread titles when all they have is hearsay.

This portion of the news story tells it all. "The book is a copy of the investigation findings presented to the press Thursday." All the info was presented at the press conference and anyone could write a book about it. Zullo will probably write his book from the perception of an investigator which is his right, but I seriously doubt the information that it will contain would compromise anything.

Originally posted by Dilligaf28
reply to post by bknapple32

 

Osama was not a US Citizen where the person in question was. Despite whatever allegiance he may have swore he was legally a US citizen and fully entitled to the rights assigned to us all by the Constitution. This is a fine example of facts vs. mindset. You are of the mindset that his alleged crimes justify shredding his Constitutional rights yet the fact of his citizenship clearly means he is entitled to a trial by jury regardless of anyone's opinion.

You didn't comment/respond to my question regarding if facts change due to the mindset of those that uncover those facts.

EDIT TO ADD

You somewhat touched on the question but not in a direct way. Does a fact, a written indisputable fact, somehow change because of the mindset of the person that uncovers it.

edit on 5-3-2012 by Dilligaf28 because: (no reason given)

If Im not mistaken, this was covered by lawyers before taking the enemy combatant out. He lost his contsitutional rights when he swore his allegiance to a foreign enemy..



And you need to look into the people who did this investigation and wrote the book. They signed on to co author the book 6 months ago. WHEN THEY STARTED THE INVESTIGATION. So yes, the facts can change. Becuase they ''uncovered' these "facts" after deciding to write a book saying obama was ineligable to run. Thus their results supported the book they were going to release.. What of this arent you getting?

Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by Dilligaf28
reply to post by bknapple32

 

I find it interesting that you proclaim "innocent until proven guilty" to defend Obama yet have no issues with an American citizen being executed for crimes without a trial by jury; an execution that Obama ordered.

Interesting?

Does any personal motivation held by those that conducted the influence somehow change or alter any facts that may be uncovered by that investigation? Conjecture can be manipulated due to mindset; factual information is nowhere near as subject to manipulation as facts are facts.

There was nothing to prove with that person. He himself swore an oath to kill americans and an allegiance to an enemy of the state. He was a traitor by every stretch of the imagination. There was nothing to prove.... Should Osama Bin Laden have gotten a trial as well?

And yes, facts can be stretched when there is an alterior movite such as money. By no means has this been proven to be facts by a non affiliated 3rd party. It has only been proclaimed fact by the people trying to literally sell the story

edit on 5-3-2012 by bknapple32 because: (no reason given)

So you have no problem with killing people because they are exercising the right to freedom of speech? How many times in protests have you heard kill the pigs or cops? Should the cops have opened fire on the crowd? Also what about his teenage son we killed kid for no reason.

Hell Yes Bin Laden should have gotten a trial. Especially seeing how the FBI couldn't even find enough evidence linking him to 9/11 to even charge him with it.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by Dilligaf28
reply to post by bknapple32

 

I find it interesting that you proclaim "innocent until proven guilty" to defend Obama yet have no issues with an American citizen being executed for crimes without a trial by jury; an execution that Obama ordered.

Interesting?

Does any personal motivation held by those that conducted the influence somehow change or alter any facts that may be uncovered by that investigation? Conjecture can be manipulated due to mindset; factual information is nowhere near as subject to manipulation as facts are facts.

There was nothing to prove with that person. He himself swore an oath to kill americans and an allegiance to an enemy of the state. He was a traitor by every stretch of the imagination. There was nothing to prove.... Should Osama Bin Laden have gotten a trial as well?

And yes, facts can be stretched when there is an alterior movite such as money. By no means has this been proven to be facts by a non affiliated 3rd party. It has only been proclaimed fact by the people trying to literally sell the story

edit on 5-3-2012 by bknapple32 because: (no reason given)

So you have no problem with killing people because they are exercising the right to freedom of speech? How many times in protests have you heard kill the pigs or cops? Should the cops have opened fire on the crowd? Also what about his teenage son we killed kid for no reason.

Hell Yes Bin Laden should have gotten a trial. Especially seeing how the FBI couldn't even find enough evidence linking him to 9/11 to even charge him with it.

Comparing a person who has sworn an oath with a terrorist organization that has killed people, and not to mention he was plannig terrorist attacks on americans, to american citizens excercising the right to free speech, is not fair...

And Im not even talking about bin laden and 9/11 ( im not convinced he did that either). But he admitted to attacking the USS Cole and embassy in Egypt. Thus he attacked and killed American military men and women.

Originally posted by avatard
The ONLY reason Obama wont show his birth certificate is this : HIS DADDY IS MALCOLM X look it up,,you figure out the rest...the research has been done. Honestly i think that would be AWESOME so dont be calling me a racist,,you know how you obama supporters are..someone needs to tell the sheriff this stuff..

What?

Malcolm X and Obama, look nothing alike.

Pics or it didn't happen.

That is the first time I heard that.

Originally posted by Manhater

Originally posted by avatard
The ONLY reason Obama wont show his birth certificate is this : HIS DADDY IS MALCOLM X look it up,,you figure out the rest...the research has been done. Honestly i think that would be AWESOME so dont be calling me a racist,,you know how you obama supporters are..someone needs to tell the sheriff this stuff..

What?

Malcolm X and Obama, look nothing alike.

Pics or it didn't happen.

That is the first time I heard that.

And hopefully the last. Though on ats these days, I doubt it

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
This happens all the time. Capitalism at it's finest. How does this make it any less true?

Steve Jobs Movie

It doesn't.

The fact that it is based on a false rumor generated by some Tea Party factions factions is what makes it LESS TRUE.

And "less true" is no different from a lie.

If he wasn't born here he could not be President.

The GOP did not make a incredible mistake judging the authenticity of his B/C prior to the elections.

If they did mistake a forged document for the real thing and allowed their opposition, though he was born in Kenya to win - can you imagine how STUPID THIS WOULD MAKE THEM?

CERTAINLY NOT RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO RUN A COUNTRY. PERIOD


This is a sham argument and conspiracy put out their for the ignorant and the trigger happy.

People are trying to flavor already mushy minds.
Trying to get vigilantes to equate Obama with an outlaw - who has no RIGHT to the Presidency.
Hoping to inspire another wacko to take the "law" into their own hands like Jared Loughtner thought he was.

They think everyone is as stupid as they are and can't see through this?
Doesn't surprise me at all the whole thing is so some guy can make money on a book.
There are people who will buy it.

Don't you love guys like this. That actually believe that the responsibity to protect the constitution is a Republican responsibility. That if Mr. Obama's public record is a fraud it would be the fault of the Republicans for not "outing" him.

Is anything ever Barak's fault. I guess if we can't ask Barak to take responsibility, before we blame the Repblicans, how about democrats asking a vew questions? How about the media? How about the aiding and abetting from those Democrats down in Hawaii? Or since this cold case posse is not saying he is an illegal (yet), how about the person that forged it and let the white house administration post it? Is that person responsible?...nope...just the Republicans.

Oh, and don't forget those lunatic tea baggers. Even though they are tax paying citizens of the USA they have no right to make a formal request of their county sheriff to investigate something. Anything affiliated to the tea baggers is obviously a lie.

Are you for real? Good grief!

reply to post by Sharpenmycleats


All this is really moot; its a sham. A money making plot taking advantage of the last few people will buy this nonsense.

Originally posted by Sharpenmycleats

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
This happens all the time. Capitalism at it's finest. How does this make it any less true?

Steve Jobs Movie

It doesn't.

The fact that it is based on a false rumor generated by some Tea Party factions factions is what makes it LESS TRUE.

And "less true" is no different from a lie.

If he wasn't born here he could not be President.

The GOP did not make a incredible mistake judging the authenticity of his B/C prior to the elections.

If they did mistake a forged document for the real thing and allowed their opposition, though he was born in Kenya to win - can you imagine how STUPID THIS WOULD MAKE THEM?

CERTAINLY NOT RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO RUN A COUNTRY. PERIOD


This is a sham argument and conspiracy put out their for the ignorant and the trigger happy.

People are trying to flavor already mushy minds.
Trying to get vigilantes to equate Obama with an outlaw - who has no RIGHT to the Presidency.
Hoping to inspire another wacko to take the "law" into their own hands like Jared Loughtner thought he was.

They think everyone is as stupid as they are and can't see through this?
Doesn't surprise me at all the whole thing is so some guy can make money on a book.
There are people who will buy it.

Don't you love guys like this. That actually believe that the responsibity to protect the constitution is a Republican responsibility. That if Mr. Obama's public record is a fraud it would be the fault of the Republicans for not "outing" him.

Is anything ever Barak's fault. I guess if we can't ask Barak to take responsibility, before we blame the Repblicans, how about democrats asking a vew questions? How about the media? How about the aiding and abetting from those Democrats down in Hawaii? Or since this cold case posse is not saying he is an illegal (yet), how about the person that forged it and let the white house administration post it? Is that person responsible?...nope...just the Republicans.

Oh, and don't forget those lunatic tea baggers. Even though they are tax paying citizens of the USA they have no right to make a formal request of their county sheriff to investigate something. Anything affiliated to the tea baggers is obviously a lie.

Are you for real? Good grief!

What are you trying to say exactly?

I cannot find the truth through the sarcasm.



Wait...I'll come back with my boots on and try to wade through this again...

reply to post by bknapple32


It's nothing more than a culling of easily-led automatons so that they may be shucked and devoured whole.

Again, critical thinking, folks.

Of course he will make money off the investigstion. What do you expect his family to eat, making momey is not the issue is it, the issue is the fact that Obama, or Barry as we should call him, should not be president.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
Of course he will make money off the investigstion. What do you expect his family to eat, making momey is not the issue is it, the issue is the fact that Obama, or Barry as we should call him, should not be president.

As ignorant as it gets.... I think his family will eat just fine without profiteering from birthers. Pretty sure he had a job before this. Making money off this investigation is very wrong. IT kinda tarnishes the whole non affiliated nothing to gain party that is required in pure scientific testing. If it were truly about forensically examining the records to lead a formal charge of fraud against the investigation, the leader of the investigation wouldnt sign a book deal about the investigation BEFORE he does it. It just shows hes going to alter the results so he can get the results that make him the most money.

This thread is such a joke

Oh im sorry for running an investigation for 2200 hours over a period of 6 months, make my evidence available for free on YouTube, and then write a book about it! How dare I!

You know this sheriff is only the most recent person amongst thousands of individuals online with a copy of Adobe Illustrator to come to the same conclusion he did?

If you don't believe him, why don't you take the PDF for yourself and investigate?

I knew it was a forgery within the first week




How can anyone deny this?




Then some people say OCR, there is evidence of rotation and links right there in the document!
A scanned document DOES NOT COME OUT LIKE THIS

I never even followed this whole issue until he actually tried to provide counter-evidence for it! Which turned out to be a blatant forgery!

And if people are going to stick such labels as "birther" this and that around, then fine! I'll call you a booker! (as another ATSer mentioned)

Originally posted by rnaa
You cannot conduct forensic examination on a document by viewing an image of a document.

WOW! How did you get so many stars? You clearly have no clue what your talking about! This investigation was performed on the PDF long form birth certificate Obama provided!

Have you ever heard of a PDF? Doesn't sound like it
en.wikipedia.org...

Did you know the long form birth certificate was provided ONLY AS A PDF? Doesn't sound like it
www.whitehouse.gov...

Did you know that there are many branches of forensics science out there?
en.wikipedia.org...

Earlier you said this

Originally posted by bknapple32
Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Then this user rightfully replied :

Originally posted by Dilligaf28
I find it interesting that you proclaim "innocent until proven guilty" to defend Obama yet have no issues with an American citizen being executed for crimes without a trial by jury; an execution that Obama ordered.

Then you replied in contradiction of your earlier statement

Originally posted by bknapple32
There was nothing to prove with that person. He himself swore an oath to kill americans and an allegiance to an enemy of the state. He was a traitor by every stretch of the imagination. There was nothing to prove.... Should Osama Bin Laden have gotten a trial as well?

Nothing to prove?? Says who? Who has the right to say that ?
Man you'll flip and flop as long as it serves your interests,
You sir are hypocrite

A person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

www.merriam-webster.com...

Yes Osama Bin Laden deserved a trial
Everyone deserves a trial
Only a court with a judge and jury has the right to conclude "there was nothing to prove" and then kill someone for it
Not a trigger happy rogue administration like the one currently in office

btw

Breaking News: Lt.Col. Anthony Shaffer Says Anwar al-Awlaki Was A Triple Agent, Was a FBI Asset Befo

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and if you haven't heard, 911 was an inside job. So there is no way Osama was behind the attack

reply to post by bknapple32
John Locke was one of my fav characters in lost... you should be ashamed as a hypocrite to take on such a title

reply to post by seenavv

WOW! How did you get so many stars?

Dunno. I can't give them to myself. Maybe people who can think see something in my remarks that you don't.

You clearly have no clue what your talking about! This investigation was performed on the PDF long form birth certificate Obama provided!

You clearly have no clue about what constitutes the real world. It is pointless to 'investigate' the PDF; the PDF is NOT the Birth Certificate. The PDF is only an image of the Birth Certificate published on the internet for the convenience of the curious.

It is the INFORMATION on the document that is important. Nothing else. It doesn't matter if it is written on toilet paper if Hawai'i certifies it as accurate. And Hawai'i has certified it as accurate many times.

There was no investigation, it is just regurgitated crap from World Net Daily from go to whoa.

Have you ever heard of a PDF? Doesn't sound like it

Have you ever considered the difference between an image of a document and the document itself? Doesn't sound like it.

Did you know the long form birth certificate was provided ONLY AS A PDF? Doesn't sound like it

Did you know that the non-standard Birth Certificate (the so-called 'long form') was presented to the White House Press Corps and some of them took the opportunity to touch it and photograph it? Doesn't sound like it.

And do you know that the standard Birth Certificate (the so-called 'short form') was made available for inspection by the national press corps during the 2008 campaign and only one organization took them up on it and took the opportunity to touch it and photograph it?

And do you know that both documents were scanned into PDF images so that they could be published on the internet for the convenience of the curious?.

And do you know that the PDF is not the Birth Certificate but only an image of the Birth Certificate?

Did you know that there are many branches of forensics science out there?

Did you know that not one of the people who contributed to the so-called report has any expertise in any branche of forensic science out there?

And do you know that the published report does not list any of the members of the Sheriffs Cold Case Posse, there qualifications, or anything about them. Only Mark Zullo is named, and no verifiable qualifications are listed.

And do you know that is not how professional police investigative reports are done?

Kevin Davidson has supplied a superb review of the book on Amazon.

Kevin Davidson Review