Does God lead into temptation ?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by ellieN

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

No, the Spirit led Jesus to the wilderness. The temptation was of the devil. The Spirit led Jesus there for a test, the Spirit didn't do the tempting, lucifer did.

Again..this goes back to God knowing all from beginning to end. Do you really think God would send Jesus into temptation with Satan, if He did not already know His Son would not fail!? Another question is..why would Satan even attempt the temptation of Jesus, especially Knowing the Almighty authority of GOD. Satan had to know that was destined for failure. How did anyone know of Satan's temptation of Jesus?. I am sure Satan didn't want to broadcast that failure him self.
Satan can't do anything that God doesn't allow him to...take the story of Job..

Because Jesus came in the flesh. He way able to be tempted in the same manner Adam would have been able to be tempted in the garden, Adam also has no inherited sin nature. And Jesus passed the test.

edit on 2-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Soo..o you think God would NOT have known that Jesus would pass the test....Is that what you are saying.. that God does not know all and it was just a chance He had to take.. And you think Satan would not have known this was a futile attempt?? Do you really think God would have allowed Jesus to fail ? A failure would have meant God would have had to insert another SON somewhere.
Jesus was flesh. It mattered to Jesus, because he was in pain knowing what He was destined to have to do, from the beginning. He knew what humans felt being half human himself. What matters is that God does not take chances and he knows what He is doing at all times.

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

to clear something up: i am not a religious person, i am not trying to defame god, but in a common sense, if someone "begs" not to be led into temptation, it must have happened before, otherwise it makes no sense. if god leads humans and a believer asks not to be led into temptation, it basically means god sometimes leads into temptation. imo.

So we're clear: We aren't begging God to not lead us in; we call on Him to lead us out. From scripture we understand that our own lusts draw us away into temptation. Greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world.

So we're clear: You can have your opinion but to argue against the Word without knowledge of it, to argue one verse as if you understand it without context of the entirety of scripture is arguing your own ignorant opinion and is only confusing you and those like you. Like I said before, deny the ignorance. Nevertheless, if you really wanted to understand instead of antagonizing according to a hard heart, you would've contemplated the corroborating evidence instead of still arguing a spiritually mute point based on a faulty human understanding of one verse.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

why do you take the guilt, if god decides fates. you say you have lust that leads you into temptation, why do you blame yourself ? is it your love to god, that makes you devote ?
is god interacting with this material world ? in what amount ? what are the criteria ?

reply to post by icepack


Read the Book of Job, and then ask yourself that question again.

See also Jonas

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

to clear something up: i am not a religious person, i am not trying to defame god, but in a common sense, if someone "begs" not to be led into temptation, it must have happened before, otherwise it makes no sense. if god leads humans and a believer asks not to be led into temptation, it basically means god sometimes leads into temptation. imo.

The person praying is not asking God to not lead them into temptation from Himself. They are praying for protection from temptation.

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

why do you take the guilt, if god decides fates. you say you have lust that leads you into temptation, why do you blame yourself ? is it your love to god, that makes you devote ?
is god interacting with this material world ? in what amount ? what are the criteria ?

These are very precise questions.

If there is no FREE WILL, and we are not responsible because everything is determined by god...where does the 'compulsion' to be tempted come from?...and just to be up front...the devil/satan excuse is a psychological diversion to attribute blame when echewing responsibility.

As long as there is a 'cop-out' clause in the equation, provided by the installation of a third party (devil/satan) responsibility is bypassed completely.

If there is no FREE WILL to choose temptation over non-temptation (which is what the first question relates to), how could we 'feel'...blame...devotion is a conscious decision based on the ability to choose something over something...within this context, it implies FREE WILL...otherwise we are not conscious, of FREE WILL, and completely blamelesss and have no choices...temptation, or the concept of temptation is negated under these conditions...

Akushla

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

why do you take the guilt, if god decides fates.

I am guilty. I pray that my name be found in the Lambs book of Life, Jesus book of those who he knows. (google Revelation and Lambs book of Life for reference) I do not want to be judged on my works because my righteous is filthy rags and my goodness is not good enough.

you say you have lust that leads you into temptation, why do you blame yourself ?

My flesh wars with my spirit. My body wants things and my spirit tells me it's not good, then I choose which I will follow and I act. I am not close to 100% perfect and when I sin, it is always a burden afterward because once you feel God's presence in spirit and then don't anymore bc of sin, it's unbearable to the point of tears and sorrow and calling out for the peace I once had with Him. This is where the interaction takes place, the Holy Spirit, the comforter Jesus gives to those who ask of Him.

is it your love to god, that makes you devote ?

I am convinced of God's love for me through Jesus. But at first, at the very first when I gave Him a chance, I was very young, socially alienated living in the woods, without a dad, and beaten regularly to blood by a christian mother with hatred in her heart and a jealous drunkard abusive boyfriend, then she married a hippie drug-addict agnostic/atheist when I was 7. Things got no better.

Nevertheless, I didn't have time for imaginary things, and learning to read using the kjv, I knew of One who claimed to love me and gave me promises so I called on Him to help me and save me and never let me go else I kill myself and end the misery. He saved me then and never have I regretted putting my faith in Him.

I do love Him; I love Him for His love, for his sacrifice, for the Hope, and for the peace I have over this world and over death.

is god interacting with this material world ? in what amount ? what are the criteria ?

Yes, he interacts with us in our hearts according to His Holy Spirit. The heart above all things is evil but God changes our hearts and gives us knowledge of his ways: Love, joy, self-control, kindness, peace, patience, goodness, gentles, and faithfulness.

If you don't know such things and want to, call on Him in faith. He is faithful if you'll trust.

Originally posted by BULLETINYOURHEAD
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Which one are you weak or lost? Infact don't answer hear ask your heart and keep it a secret between you and your make believe characters

My great strength is in my weakness and in my reliance on God's power, and within that context, I am powerful, perhaps one of the most powerful and influential people you would ever meet, bulletinyourhead.

Just because God knows everything from beginning to end.....does not mean that He caused it to happen.!! He just happens to be super-clairvoyant. All seeing ,all knowing because He is God!

God did seem to intervene into human affairs quite a bit in the Old Testament and with some awful terrifying consequences too. Things that make us cringe in horror...Why...did He do that??
Let me make up a syfy here.. Let us assume God had a lot more thoughts than just that ONE of creating Adam and Eve---- and these time lines did not turn out good at all. Since He can see and know all, these time lines were discarded. But as our two ancestors..Adam and Eve, definitely weren't the epitome of all goodness, it was a line that had hope and allowed this line to continue. It seems He had many times regretted the decision, too.
So He interfered with his creation in order to bring back that hope, and..He gave us the ultimate gift...the life of his son, .Jesus.... The time line would not fail...Jesus paid the price for all humanity.

Free will is not all free will..It must submit to laws and order, if not, Free will would be total chaos. There has always been law and order, good and bad, negative and positive. Each one can cancel out the other and also use terrifying means to do so. There must be a balance or the time line will end. But this line has the state of the art defence system in it. Jesus. And God intervening in the past could have been a way of ensuring that his Son would make the stop off point safely....so if we go poof! we can still exist in God's plane.

Just a thought...

It is neither so that god will lead us in temptation
it is neither so that god will not lead us in temptation...

I'm off...

reply to post by ellieN

Again..this goes back to God knowing all from beginning to end. Do you really think God would send Jesus into temptation with Satan, if He did not already know His Son would not fail!? Another question is..why would Satan even attempt the temptation of Jesus, especially Knowing the Almighty authority of GOD. Satan had to know that was destined for failure. How did anyone know of Satan's temptation of Jesus?. I am sure Satan didn't want to broadcast that failure him self.

Jesus is the Son of the Holy Spirit. Being the Son of the Holy Spirit he was able to resist temptation, because he knew the truth. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, so naturally Jesus would know the truth. Jesus said he had all the power his Father has and could do everything his Father can do because his Father showed him how. Jesus also said his Father could only be worshipped in spirit because he is a spirit.

Now ask yourself. Who is God?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Very interesting!! who do you think God is and why? I would really like to hear someone say. Not some human looking man sitting on a throne.

Originally posted by ellieN
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Very interesting!! who do you think God is and why?

Who told us that if we have laid eyes on Him then we have seen the Father?

I think we have the essence and are sentient beings that is the Image of God, no other creatures on this planet can do the things we can. But..I don't think God has the physical build of a human.... although to set our minds at ease, he would appear to us as human...it is what we would expect.

We were made to fit this planet's environment, and our physical build is very good for being able to create ...and destroy also. If we were on a different planet, then our physical appearance would be made to suit that environment. We are humans, and as humans it is all we know. Everything to us...should look like us. We see our faces in everything.!! trees, clouds, stains on the wall, you name it.

For many people their vision of the world and Universe is very small. How many have an idea of the power of Someone to be able to create something so vast. It is staggering to the mind!!! There are Suns out there that can about swallow our sun and the solar system. imagine the power in that!!

To me that power, God...is something beyond what any of us could imagine...physically. We are infants in this Universe, very, very, young. Our tolerance for each other is not there. We argue back and forth over what the Bible is saying. Each having his/her own view of what it REALLY says. While 30,000 different denominations based on the Bible argue over it, sometimes very heated arguments.... 2,000 years later we are no closer to totally agreement on it. SAD!

So who do you think God is?

reply to post by ellieN

I don't think God has the physical build of a human....

Read Genesis 18. God accompanied with 2 angels met and talked face to face with Abraham and Sarah in his tent. Jesus said that the Father is a Spirit and no man had ever seen Him at any time.

So, who then was "God" that met with Abraham face to face in Genesis 18 if the "Father" is a Spirit and "no man" had ever seen Him?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by ellieN

 

I don't think God has the physical build of a human....

Read Genesis 18. God accompanied with 2 angels met and talked face to face with Abraham and Sarah in his tent. Jesus said that the Father is a Spirit and no man had ever seen Him at any time.

So, who then was "God" that met with Abraham face to face in Genesis 18 if the "Father" is a Spirit and "no man" had ever seen Him?

So..God can appear to you in any form he wants too. As for no man ever having seen him..Jesus would be correct.. Not in His true form that is. Could we even be able to stand that....

Originally posted by ellieN
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Very interesting!! who do you think God is and why? I would really like to hear someone say. Not some human looking man sitting on a throne.

edit on 3-3-2012 by ellieN because: (no reason given)

I think God is the Holy Spirit and that Jesus is his physical body. It goes way back to the prophets. They had power because the Holy Spirit loaned him his power for a brief time so they could do simliar things as Jesus. This could also explain why after the pharisees insulted the Holy Spirit by calling Him an unclean Spirit and blaspheming him, Why Jesus didn't teach anything except in parables. The pharisees insulted his Father, and them already damning themselves, he may have decided there was no point teaching them anything (this is conjecture, i have no idea if this is what happened but it makes me wonder).

If you think about it, all we are, is a body clothing our spirits. Perhaps then Jesus the physical person was the second ark of the covenant, the Ark of Testimony? This digs into gnosticism though. I am not saying it is this way 100% but it makes you wonder if you take into account Matthew.

Matthew 1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.

Concieved of the Holy Spirit would make him the Son of the Holy Spirit, and as we know the Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead so he too is also God. Father, Son and Holy Spirit seems like a complicated way of just saying he is Yahweh or Yahovah Yireh. Basically when you say the word Trinity it looks like this: Father=Yahweh, Jesus=Yahweh, Holy Spirit=Yahweh.

The whole reason muslim have a problem with christianity is the trinity seems like paganism to them because it makes them think there are 3 Gods, not just One and i must admit that thought has crossed my own mind a time or two. Why not just say Jesus' pre-incarnate form is Yahweh and dispense with the confusion about who he really is? Jesus is the Glory of God, but if he is the Son of the Holy Spirit then you must know that every man's Son is his Glory...the light of his life (or should be unless you're dysfunctional).

If you read the entire old testament, everything in it points at Jesus being Yahweh. if you notice whenever the prophets speak when they prophecy they sound just like Jesus when God talks through them right down to his mannerism. Perhaps the entire point of his ministry was to get people to realize that the Holy Spirit was testifying that he and Jesus are the one and the same? If you notice all during Christ's ministry, miracles only happened where he was located. Almost like the miracles stopped everywhere but where he was for the 33 years of his life. John the Baptist was considered a prophet, but he worked no miracles...but he knew from the womb that the Messiah was coming after him because they met when their mothers were both pregnant and recognized eachother.

It's fascinating stuff if you think about the implications. I had my own revelation last summer than Jesus was actually Yahweh the Creator, so naturally by default he would also be the Holy Spirit. I hope i didn't confuse you i've been exploding with revelations these last few weeks.

reply to post by ellieN

So..God can appear to you in any form he wants too. As for no man ever having seen him..Jesus would be correct.. Not in His true form that is. Could we even be able to stand that....

'

No we could not. The entire point of God coming to earth in the form of a human was the be the sacrifice to get us back to him. If he came to earth in his full glory anyone that was living in sin would be destroyed almost instantly because he destroys sin in his presence. This is why those who have taken the mark of the beast will be killed in his second coming and why no unsaved flesh will be spared to enter into his millenial reign. Sin cannot enter into his kingdom, this is my take on it.

We know from the Old Testement that God destroys sin in his presence. When the Israelites first came to Mount Sinai, he forbade anyone to so much as even touch the mountain or approach it save Moses or any animal or they would be killed. I think the terror of being in his presence would be enough to kill us before he even came close enough for us to see him, which could be the entire point of people hiding in their underground bunkers and caves to hide from the coming of his Glory and even that will not save them.

Originally posted by ellieN

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by ellieN

 

I don't think God has the physical build of a human....

Read Genesis 18. God accompanied with 2 angels met and talked face to face with Abraham and Sarah in his tent. Jesus said that the Father is a Spirit and no man had ever seen Him at any time.

So, who then was "God" that met with Abraham face to face in Genesis 18 if the "Father" is a Spirit and "no man" had ever seen Him?

So..God can appear to you in any form he wants too. As for no man ever having seen him..Jesus would be correct.. Not in His true form that is. Could we even be able to stand that....

Jesus didn't say that though, He said the Father had never been seen by any man, that He is a Spirit.

I am loving this...that people are putting their thought out here without arguments over it. This is great! I am so liking what has been said so far on the last part of this page. it is a lot to think about. Some really good points have been made. This makes me want to post and not be criticized for what I think. I will be back in a few minutes.