I am slightly confused. Looking for Info

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posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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So i have read a lot about "chemtrails" vs "contrails" and have done some of my own research of the subject. Recorded several hours of video on all "lines in the sky", but In researching the topic more and more I have found a very hindering question...

are they real (chemtrails) or are they just regular old contrails?

IMO chemtrails are def a reality and are occurring more and more, and are def a different entity than contrails. But all over this site its a split of people whom agree they are a real threat, and the other half says no way, these are just contrails.

The article I came across to really bring this issue to the front of my mind was this...translate.google.com...://www.kurir-info.rs/planeta/tajni-projek at-bele-kuce-148802.php&act=url

In the article, it tells of John P Holdren admitting to 16 years of geo-engineering..."He admitted that the atmosphere is treated barijumovim salts, aluminum dioxide and other toxic compounds" (source article)

I used the "search" function to look for threads on this, as this is not that new of info (the article is not too old, but not too new either), and found the information is mentioned on other posts, but not as a direct topic of discussion.

I could be misguided, but if a Presidential Science Adviser states that "chemtrails" have existed for at least 16 years, how can anyone on ATS, or anywhere, say they do not exist? Isnt Holdren stating this more than a smoking gun? Wouldnt this be like catching the gun with the bullet still half in the barrel? He states, "barijumovim salts, aluminum dioxide, and other toxic compounds"...motives for chemtrails aside, isnt the main argument for chemtrails that it is the depositing of barium salts, aluminum, and other toxins into the atmosphere? so shouldnt this comment from Holdren squash anymore debate on if chemtrails exist or not?

Again, I may be miss-lead, but it appears to me there is valid confirmation of "chemtrails"...so why do people still say they dont exist, or blow off people as loony for saying they do?

Any links to more research and info would be greatly appreciated. I thank you for your time taken to read this question.

Equal Rights, Justice, Peace, and Love for All




posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by R3velutionR3quired
 



really? married, and no confusion on my sexual orientation. thanks for taking the time to waste my time.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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this was a serious question I am having trouble finding a definitive answer. If anyone has some real information that would be appreciated. please dont waste my, nor any potential posters time with off topic, and unwarrantable remarks.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 


This is incorrect:


In the article, it tells of John P Holdren admitting to 16 years of geo-engineering..."He admitted that the atmosphere is treated barijumovim salts, aluminum dioxide and other toxic compounds" (source article)



There are a slew of liars in the lucrative field of this con-job known as "chemtrails". They will make up, fake "evidence", any number of things in order to perpetuate the hoax.

And no.....there are so such things as "chemtrails".....each and every instance of something being claimed as such turn out to be nothing but normal, ordinary condensation trails...contrails. The same things that have been observed throughout the history of high-altitude aviation.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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I have to agree with you, OP. Despite several members for whom I hold high respect stating the contrary, I believe that chemtrails are indeed a reality. I also am inclined to believe their purpose is as insidious (if not more so) as we imagine.

I have heard of traces of magnesium as well as aluminum found in the time/vicinity of these trails, which together create a mixture of heavy metals capable of passing through the blood/brain barrier... Also I heard statistics of a huge spike in asthma among school children in highly trailed areas...

Buddha teaches that we should not believe anything unless it ring true in our own hearts, and the denials that there is nothing "odd" going on as concerned with these streaks in the sky... I don't believe it for a second.

I'm sorry I haven't more to contribute (factually.) However, what good is a "fact" or a "source" if it can be simply disregarded as "disinformation" or "promulgation of an agenda?" This points directly to the Buddha's teaching.


*And by the way, the above rude commenter (r3volution r3quir3d) is a troll, nothing more. Alert the post, and don't waste the thread space. Shame on him*
edit on 27-2-2012 by Aqualung2012 because: .
edit on 27-2-2012 by Aqualung2012 because: .



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 

Here a few vids to watch.

Iv see this trailer and it looks intresting the full film being released later this
year.


Dont know if this one below is any good havent had time to watch it yet sorry.

edit on 27/2/2012 by skuly because: adding



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by skuly
 



Here a few vids to watch


Waste of time. "WITWATS" is nonsense, and really a FAKEumentary, not a serious scientific examination.

THIS ATS thread explains the inaccuracies that abound in it:

Are They Spraying Anything?


Michal J. Murphy (one who is behind that piece of junk "film") is part of the problem, and a promoter of the scam, the myth, the hoax of "chemtrails".



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


In attempts to continue the conversation...

after watching the following two documentaries

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

I have seen a collection of data which would provide many inclinations which support the "chemtrail" side

most notably, to me, are the results from sampling different areas of soil from know "chemtrail hot spots". Again, to me, and I am no credible scientist, but the data would show that many elements are being distributed in our atmosphere.

Taking the position of agreeing with you (for the sake of argument), what would then account for the changing PH levels in the soil of said areas? knowing that the change in PH was due to the same materials those whom call "chemtrails" say are being sprayed in the atmosphere; salts, aluminum, and barium.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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edit on 27-2-2012 by JAsay1LOVE because: double post



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


You know, I commend your interest in upholding the ATS slogan... But I have to say: It strikes me as rather odd that you show so much concern over people's belief in chemtrails.

People are going to believe in them, regardless of what you say, you must realize this. Just as fast as you shoot down people's research as "hoaxes" and "dis-info," they will apply the exact inverse to yourself.

You stand behind experience and widely accepted science. I appreciate this, and it is that which is the basis of "denying ignorance." But in your crusades, you have over-emphasized the science aspect while minimizing the experiences of others.

People KNOW there is something wrong. There is no bit of fact or chart or list of statistics which you can provide which will budge that. People's intuition is not as precise as the pilot's gauges, but it has served mankind far longer, and in a much more far-reaching way.

My point in this comment should be clear: facts are relative to the observer. You can try all you want, but in the end, there is no silencing people's gut feeling.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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I know this get's asked in every thread about chemtrails and yet I haven't seen an answer from the chemtrail believers and I will ask this again....

Where are these so called chemtrail planes coming from, and where are they being parked, loaded and how are they flying around all nilly willy?


Especially now whether you believe 9/11 happened or not (that's a whole different topic) you can't just fly around without being seen.

So how does this happen?



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by Aqualung2012
 


thanks for post. i agree (in actuality) that chemtrails are real. there is a noticable difference, imo, between what everyone would consider contrails, and what we would consider chemtrails.

what constitutes actual proof for this subject though? we have all scene (not here, but abroad) the scientific data, the videos, photos, and (whether its real or not is yet to be proven definitively) a Pres Science Adviser stating they are real, but this is still not enough?

thats why i asked the initial question...not to get opinions back, but to see scientific proof. I am open to any conclusion, but I want to see the "light"...which ever road it illuminates



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by JAsay1LOVE
 


I have seen a collection of data which would provide many inclinations which support the "chemtrail" side

Before you accept that data at face value you should review the thread linked earlier.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



a Pres Science Adviser stating they are real, but this is still not enough?

Please provide a direct quote, in context, from the advisor.
edit on 2/27/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


one word: compartmentalization.

On board computers can initiate the components which are installed on the plane without the action or awareness of the pilot.

no single person assembles an entire commercial airplane. the assembly is assigned to many different workers, and those workers may only be responsible for one or a few components and may have no real understanding of what it actually does.

Tighten this bolt, on to the next.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by Aqualung2012
 





You can try all you want, but in the end, there is no silencing people's gut feeling.


You are right,but the problem with that is the same as me having a gut feeling and my gut feeling is that unicorns exist problem is no one has proof of their existence,which pretty much is the same for chemtrails. A lot of gut feeling,but very little proof.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


im there with you. while i believe the trails themselves to be unnatural, i also ask the same questions, and i have no idea how to answer any of them...but just because we dont have the answers does not mean they do not exist.

i agree, where are they staged, where are all the toxins being bought or manufactured at, who are the pilots, what do they know of what they are doing, how is the project bank rolled, who manages the oversight... and on and on

but like i remember seeing posted from another member...(paraphrased of course) who was piloting the dropping of agent orange? people used to say that wasnt going on"... that hit close to home, as my grandfather was a part of Operation Igloo White in Vietnam...a lot of that op is declassified now, but one thing you wont find is that not only were they spraying the jungles with agent orange, and dropping radar in the jungle (to track troop movement) but... (a little of topic) his front over seas was through IBM, and through IBM (funded by Rockefeller), my grandfather was also dropping sonar into the shores along the region... funny that after the war, Rockefeller (standard oil) was the only oil company whom found oil in the region, and prospered.

back to the topic at hand, people said agent orange wasnt real. they asked who was spraying it and where did it come from.... well, my grandfather died from complications from exposure to agent orange. turns out it was very real

i just hope the same sort of thing doesnt occur with the subject of chemtrails. im no dooms day prepper, but absolute knowledge equals absolute advantage. If ones holds absolute advantage, they cannot be defeated. Even if a theory is proven to be complete bs, knowledge is always the answer. Just because a threat is no threat today, it does not mean it cannot be tomorrow



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Aqualung2012
 





You can try all you want, but in the end, there is no silencing people's gut feeling.


You are right,but the problem with that is the same as me having a gut feeling and my gut feeling is that unicorns exist problem is no one has proof of their existence,which pretty much is the same for chemtrails. A lot of gut feeling,but very little proof.


I would relate the unicorn model to a more realistic mystery: that of ghosts. If you had a crate which contained proof of ghosts... what would be inside? Photos of a ghost? Video? No... that's not proof. The only thing in that box which could be considered proof of ghost is a ghost.

Now, we can assume that one cannot just put a ghost in a box. In the same way we cannot put a chemtrail in a box... we have only personal experience and a pseudo-science designed to "suggest" proof, but in reality what we have is intuition and possibility. Is it POSSIBLE that ghost exist? Of course... that's sort of saying embracing ignorance. Is it POSSIBLE that the government is spraying the air with harmful chemicals for reasons unknown, in secrecy? OF COURSE! They already put it in our water and food, why not?

Now, this may be over-stepping my boundaries here, but I would suggest ATS change it's slogan from "Deny Ignorance," to "Embrace Possibility!"



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by Aqualung2012
 





On board computers can initiate the components which are installed on the plane without the action or awareness of the pilot.


So you think a pilot has systems on his/her plane that will run without their knowledge, that is what you are saying?

So how do these systems get taken care of in the way of mechanics,technicians,because we all know computers need technicians to keep the software up to date and running.Even your computer needs more than one person to stay running.



posted on Feb, 27 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


good call....a direct quote i cannot offer. I was hoping when i found the article that it would have included an actual direct quote, but obviously it failed me lol.

it seems to me though, that if there is absolutely no proof to support chemtrails, than how is it that this "debate" still on going? is it that that many people just wont...open there eyes" to the truth" of the chemtrail phenomenon?

thats were it gets grey for me. for the theory to not have completely died in the water from the start, to me, there has to be more to the story.

no one has any physical proof on ETs, yet something like 50% of the world population believes in them...are they are ignorant too?




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