The True Resting Place of the Grail

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird

Must be an interesting experience, because grails are just something you drink from to me.

Or: They are there to be drunk from. One can be a bottomless vessel.

I suppose, it must be something like that one lady that can see and taste music as colors. A form of Synesthesia perhaps, or like I said some sort of crazy personal experience.

Synesthesits are thought by some neurologists to be a preview into mankind's future: a time when our sensory apparatus will be more effectively networked.

Whatever, I want to taste Ode to Joy, but I can't. I can sort of see it, and I'll make do with that.

reply to post by Eidolon23

Dude, why are the two mutually exclusive?

I'm not sure what this is in reference to. I'm guessing it's positivism and religion? Positivism being the 'medium' and religion 'the sender'?

Well, I guess it depends on how we define religion. Usually, religion is associated with a personal and non-philosophical, and therefore emotional, experience of the divine. On such grounds, positivism has nothing at all to do with religion.

Positivism, as an exoteric philosophical position, can definitely be reconciled with metaphysics-philosophy. But that's because both of them are of the same nature i.e. dealing with the mind. The latter can be considered from a strictly outward analysis of cause and effect, whereas the former subsumes the reality of the latter within its framework. If philosophers manage to reconcile their 'Absolute" God with the fact of the reality we live in (a position I consider to be contradictive) then I don't think they would have much difficulty harmonizing the banality of positivism with the majesty of philosophy.

As for Positivism and Religion: How can the strict positivist approach - the 'scientific method' - jibe with a personal experience of God, when such experience is entirely subjective and outside the framework of conventional experimentation?

In any case, my complaint was toward comte's particular approach and his idea that positivism itself could serve as a religion. In no way can the positivist approach 'imagine' a God beyond that of the deist.

Originally posted by dontreally

In any case, my complaint was toward comte's particular approach and his idea that positivism itself could serve as a religion. In no way can the positivist approach 'imagine' a God beyond that of the deist.

As this Deist can testify to.

Imagine God? I try, as an exercise.

Love God?

One is continually directed to love the Other, as God is just too bright.

reply to post by Eidolon23
OP you state you have had this ringing/pulsating in your chest for the past 3 months.
Having such a phenomenon you may want to investigate your lifestyle and any recent changes over the past 3 months .If you've not any recent changes in your lifestyle lately I would heartily suggest a visit to you family physician to have this checked and also explain to him any possible fears you may because of what you are undergoing. To relegate a unchecked newly physical aberration in your physical health on your part to St. Hildegard's spritiual experiences is beyond the bounds of everyday belief and scientific explanation. One's imagination can run wildly over things we do not understand and in our earnestness to divine the unknown we grasp at straws.

reply to post by MsCrowley


It's cool, I've checked my blood pressure and heart-rate. I'm in sterling condition.So it's psychosomatic, if we're going to reduce it to physiological disorder? No problem, we've been medicalizing things we'd rather not understand since the way back.

Thanks for your concern and patronage.

Yeah, I know you. No one brought the Templars into this, except through a few Maltese crosses sprinkled into the images, and some backstory on Eleanor's brood one would only know if one had a bit of pansy-waist history under one's belt.

Still, good to have you.

Originally posted by Eidolon23

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

Blood was the euphemism of the time "word" in this case Holy Word.

Not so long ago, language was law. Oral transmission = legal code.

Our civilizations are encoded into our great stories. Our major institutions are writ small in allegory. Blood as a euphemism of the Word. We may have to accept that just as our soft palettes adapt to linguistic function, and not the reverse, our development as a species may depend on the Word and how we interpret it.

edit on 12-2-2012 by Eidolon23 because: Japanese l-r syllable: the syllable predates the soft pallet adaptation.

I'll have to agree with you. Well stated.


I believe we lost the ability to translate the languages of old for the most part, and so we are doomed to repeat history. Even if we did not lose such knowledge, we tend to minimize our forefathers as modern people, so much that I doubt even if we knew the languages of old we would simply smile and say, "What quaint ideas."

Oh, and I should clarify my previous post. The grail that Jesus used was not important to Jesus nor his disciples. It was what it held that was, what the wine it held symbolized. The grail itself, the Vessel of Knowledge instructing how to create "Heaven on Earth" was important to the Crusaders who were searching for the vessel and what it contained. Something akin to the Dead Sea Scrolls, and not the literal cup Jesus held at the Last Super.

Why Jesus overturned the money changer's tables at the Temple related directly to what was written on those scrolls. They contrasted the Babylonian system with rudimentary Jewish teachings. One is bondage the other freedom. True liberty free of debt and third party ownerships of land and people.

If you work for someone else other than yourself and the deed to your properties are owned by lenders or landlords you are in bondage. It's Babylon the Great. Wall Street is located in it. So is every other exchange and bank on the planet.

reply to post by MsCrowley


Here's one for you, Miz Crowley.



The light pouring into the chalice: it's white. Milk, not blood. Forrming a web of association reflected in the waters of Emotion.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

As for Positivism and Religion: How can the strict positivist approach - the 'scientific method' - jibe with a personal experience of God, when such experience is entirely subjective and outside the framework of conventional experimentation?

Here's where we get into some fun territory. The way we experience contact with the Divine has a physical correlate: we can observe what it looks like in terms of the chems and centers involved. So, sure, it's subjective, but appears to be physically consistent from person to person.

A lot of folks are squaring out the Sender using this info. I am not one of them.

reply to post by Eidolon23


Another possible location of the Holy Grail:-

www.jaap-adventures.com...

The OP posts some very interesting ideas, and it lines up with what I'm currently reading in a book by Stephen E. Jones. The idea of three ages, represented by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is what he is also saying. Furthermore, he states that they can also be labeled as the Passover Age, the Pentecost Age, and the Tabernacles Age. The Passover means that you are still carnal, in your sins, but God isn't going to kill you for it. Pentecost means that we receive the "earnest" of the Spirit, a bit, a bit. Tabernacles means we receive the full indwelling of the Spirit - this age rightly belongs to the Overcomers, who have overcome the carnal nature, and sin. They are primarily forgivers, as was their Lord, Jesus. BTW, according to Jones' reckoning, the Tabernacles Age has already begun, and the Church Age is over. No wonder things are stirring in peoples' hearts!

Has no one in the thread mentioned the well-attested traditions of Glastonbury, that Mary Magdalene, Joseph of Arimathea, and the Grail were all buried at Avalon? Further, there were (according to these traditions) two cruets buried with Joseph, which contained the sweat and blood of Jesus. Possible Grails. Further, there is a wooden cup in Britain, which exists to this day, called the Nanteous Cup. Many believe it to be the Grail.

Edit: OK, I just read alldaylong's post - yea, I'm on your side!

Originally posted by DAVID64
How did a poor carpenter get a gold, jewel encrusted chalice?

They only use a cup such as the one shown to stir emotion in people. It was HIS cup so it must be an expensive, elaborate, gleaming one. If the bible is true, he was a carpenter. So, again, where would he get a cup like THAT?

Oh hey, I wanted to add: I think Eleanor knew precisely how that Chalice would play to the crowd. You're right: the Grail has been a prop for some heavy duty social engineering in its time.

Originally posted by DAVID64
How did a poor carpenter get a gold, jewel encrusted chalice?

They only use a cup such as the one shown to stir emotion in people. It was HIS cup so it must be an expensive, elaborate, gleaming one. If the bible is true, he was a carpenter. So, again, where would he get a cup like THAT?

Let's dispense with the "poor carpenter" idea, shall we? I know that when Jesus read in the Synagogue in His hometown, people whispered to one another, "Is this not the carpenter's son?" Maybe they weren't sure who He was, as if He had been gone for a while, but do you really think that Jesus, with the mission that He had, worked as a carpenter? No, His maternal uncle was Joseph of Arimathea, one of the richest men of his time and place. It is very possible, even probable, that Jesus traveled on His uncle's business, to places like Cornwall, where Joseph's tin mining concessions were located. He was also known in the Parthian Empire. If you still think Jesus was poor, consider that at His crucifixion His robe was not divided because it was a such a good garment. I tell people that it was the equivalent of an Armani suit.

BTW, we know that Joseph of Arimathea was Jesus' kin, because Joseph was able to claim Jesus' body after the crucifixion. You had to be family to do that, just like today.

reply to post by Eidolon23


There is nothing pouring into the chalice, it is more like a fountain, if it was pouring in, the bottom would be wider than the top. It is the fountain of life. It represents the life force, the source of all 'things'. It is the source of you, inside, behind the physical outer layer. The chalice, i think, represents man, the vessel that life passes through.
Source is unmanifest and (through us) becomes manifest so source can 'see' it's creation.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

There is nothing pouring into the chalice, it is more like a fountain, if it was pouring in, the bottom would be wider than the top. It is the fountain of life. It represents the life force, the source of all 'things'.

I agree, like a fountain. But also take into consideration that while something burbles up, something else descends to the flow.

Are you on board with RAW up there, then? The grail as a womb? It's not the interpretation I favor, but it's perfectly valid. As someone else has mentioned this is all very arbitrary (at least until one reaches a terminal density of symbolic association).



I guess we could start bringing in the Black Madonnas now.

I'm sure it has already been mentioned, but the holy grail is within...

Originally posted by Eidolon23

There is a Grail within us all waiting to overflow.

At least you got one thing right!

But dayum! We's sure had to wade through a lot of chit to get to it.

Ribbit

Originally posted by blazenresearcher
I'm sure it has already been mentioned, but the holy grail is within...

Yup!

And it's only half-full.

Ribbit

Originally posted by blazenresearcher
I'm sure it has already been mentioned, but the holy grail is within...

The power to self govern is found within. To hang on to self governance each individual must own their own means of productions, the very definition of the "pursuit of happiness." AKA freedom! Some Temple of Yahweh teachings there for ya. The opposite is bondage of course through others owning you and your means of productions. AKA slavery. Some Babylonian teachings there, the way of Babylon. Perpetual debt and being a life long employee to someone who owns your job.

Contract everything you do and never barrow a dime. The way of thee Yahweh. Metaphorically speaking, follow the Shepard so you're not eaten by wolves.

It's the wine inside the vessel that matters, the wine is the word, the Truth, the template of how to create "Heaven on Earth." It's the knowledge of how to obtain true freedom.

I find it hard to believe that two milleniums later, people still believe this grail crap.

The majority if not ALL of the grail saga stems from the troubadors of the middle ages, when the religious relics business was at it's height, and you could buy a box of saint peters finger's (15 + 1 as a gift) for a few ducketts.

The grail myth and legend es exactly that.
Invented and nourished in an age where chivarly, heroic deeds and courtly love we're all the rage.

As for the relics business, it was the "gold rush" era for the church.
Every Knight that went to Jerusalem wanted a splinter from the cross, a lock of hair, a finger bone...
There was a need, a vacum if you will, and the need had to be filled.

Troubadores (wandering musicians and story tellers, extremely popular in the middle ages who acted as the forerunners for rock groups doing tour, only two thousand years before) would go from village to village, from court to court telling stories of knights and dragons, damels in distress, courtly love, heroic deeds and how the world could'nt live without the church, with a bit of sex thrown in to boot.

In every village he would learn a new story, which had been passed down from mouth to mouth, generation to generation.
He, in his turn, would go on his travels, singing his new story, while adding a bit here, or chopping a bit there.

Thus histories the histories of Europe where spread....more fanatsy than truth.

The grail history can be traced back to Wolfram Von Eschenbach and his 13th century poem "Parzival" (25,000 rhyming verses), which was "copied" from Chretiens de Troyes "Percezal", (c 1180) , only 9250 verses long.

The modern day grail hunters who look for an "interior" grail, the "know thyself" grail, are only hippies.

The grail quest was just a list of things a medieval knight thought he should do, he should search for something just, something holy, he should rescue damsels, fight dragons, defend the church.
The quest for the grail was just a quest to find something good in a medieval world that was just,well, dark, and the grail was the light, something that would better himself and the kingdom, and the world.

The probability that Jesus had kid's, as a rabbi, was a certainty.
That his wife and family went on to escape persecution from inside or outside their own community, well, could be.
That the "santo grail" is actually "sang real" or bloodline, i consider it a real possibility.

But as for the chalice, in which where caught drops of Jesus's blood, that could cure illness's, produce wealth, food in abundance, a cornucopia if you like, i very much doubt of it's existance.
If it did it was just another relic bought and traded for by the church, like so many others, used to manipulate an ignorant, illiterate audiance.

The modern day grail is represented as a thousand and one things, a cup, a glass, be it of gold, wood, stone.
It's full of blood, water, milk....hope of salvation and eternity.
It's something that doesnt exist.
Its a search for something inside of one's self.
The grail is everything and nothing, but above all, always out of reach, so you must keep on searching on an eternal quest.

Makes me laugh, the Priory of Sion is FICTION, FACT. If there is a lost bloodline, then we will never know until they who posses the secret can use it as leverage to achieve their own goals.

For those of you who believe in the Priory of Sion and the lost bloodline of Jesus Christ I suggest you check out Rik Clay's redice interview, he has some surprising and interesting theories on the subject.