Who is really behind the birthers and what is their real motive?

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posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by bekod
 


In your comment, you speak of Obama's parent and his dad. How much does his mother count as a parent

I have taken the liberty of including here the text from the link you pointed out and I would ask everyone to read it in it's entirity.

TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1408
§ 1408. Nationals but not citizens of the United States at birth
How Current is This?
Unless otherwise provided in section 1401 of this title, the following shall be nationals, but not citizens, of the United States at birth:
(1) A person born in an outlying possession of the United States on or after the date of formal acquisition of such possession;
(2) A person born outside the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are nationals, but not citizens, of the United States, and have had a residence in the United States, or one of its outlying possessions prior to the birth of such person;
(3) A person of unknown parentage found in an outlying possession of the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in such outlying possession; and
(4) A person born outside the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a national, but not a citizen, of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than seven years in any continuous period of ten years—
(A) during which the national parent was not outside the United States or its outlying possessions for a continuous period of more than one year, and
(B) at least five years of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.
The proviso of section 1401 (g) of this title shall apply to the national parent under this paragraph in the same manner as it applies to the citizen parent under that section.
TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1409
§ 1409. Children born out of wedlock
How Current is This?
(a) The provisions of paragraphs (c), (d), (e), and (g) of section 1401 of this title, and of paragraph (2) of section 1408 of this title, shall apply as of the date of birth to a person born out of wedlock if—
(1) a blood relationship between the person and the father is established by clear and convincing evidence,
(2) the father had the nationality of the United States at the time of the person’s birth,
(3) the father (unless deceased) has agreed in writing to provide financial support for the person until the person reaches the age of 18 years, and
(4) while the person is under the age of 18 years—
(A) the person is legitimated under the law of the person’s residence or domicile,
(B) the father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
(C) the paternity of the person is established by adjudication of a competent court.
(b) Except as otherwise provided in section 405 of this Act, the provisions of section 1401 (g) of this title shall apply to a child born out of wedlock on or after January 13, 1941, and before December 24, 1952, as of the date of birth, if the paternity of such child is established at any time while such child is under the age of twenty-one years by legitimation.
(c) Notwithstanding the provision of subsection (a) of this section, a person born, after December 23, 1952, outside the United States and out of wedlock shall be held to have acquired at birth the nationality status of his mother, if the mother had the nationality of the United States at the time of such person’s birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.

Not being a legal scholar, I do not feel qualified enough to say which section of this applies to the case in question but I hope to clear up some of the useless retoric being thrown around.




posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by indigothefish
 


You said


the usa is currently in a reformation. we see this in the new internet laws and changing social structure, the planned economic crisis that will lead to a new form of economy, the wars to reform the middle east to the west's benefit. there is definitely a goal to be reached with all this, it's not random and it's not just being implemented by people who don't think further than a couple years with each action they take.


I disagree that any of this is factual. Laws ARE changing, but some would say the laws around the internet and copyright are simply coming of age. Like many things, lawmakers are listening more to the people that donate than their constituents, but that's all that's happening.

I would disagree the economic crisis was planned.

I would disagree that it's "not random" - lots of it is quite obv random.

I don' think there's some super elite with a master plan.


part of implementing this 'new' order is the introduction of certain institutions and ideologies that are contradictory to the previous order. an example would be in the previous order american's had a very free and open law for speech and press. in the new order free speech could be limited to what is not against the system, and press will be openly regulated by the system it watches.


As I disagree with the whole, planned NWO thing I pretty much disagree with all of this as well.


such changes wil occur but will be hard to make without actual friction from 'the people'. in order to organize this anti-new order group obama was situated as president. he was glorified on tv as being popular, loved and extremely smooth and hard to successfully attack in any political way. president obama would be used to implement these changes to the system that would be so controversial that normally they could never pass as law. and to organize those that would oppose this new order the birther movement was created.


Again I think all of this is pretty baseless and inaccurate. Might make a good book, but there's no evidence I've seen that it;s true.


firstly, i don't know where he was born. the only people who know for sure are the people who were there when it happened. it doesn't even matter where he was born. the birther movement is a distraction to gather and utilize the efforts and energy of the new order opposition and direct them to a dead end. this is the goal of the birther movement. this is why there are alot of things happening that are similiar.


Yeah, I disagree with all of this as well. It's pretty obv he was born in HI. It's not really distracting a lot of folks and is a fringe movement at best. And the MSM isn't covering it.. so...



Hope that clears up my position



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by hdutton
 


NONE OF THIS MATTERS. IT IS ALL ABOUT PEOPLE BORN OUTSIDE OF THE US.

WHAT MATTER IS 1401 (A) WHICH STATES A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS ANYONE BORN IN THE US.

Not shouting or upset, just trying to be esp clear.

1408 is unrelated to Obama. 1401 says he's a NBC. The courts all say a NBC is anyone born in the US.

Just like 1401 (a).

there's no mystery.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 


I DO HOPE YOU WILL PARDON MY LIMITED ATTEMPTS TO HELP CLEAR THE AIR ON THIS SUBJECT.

BY OPENLY STATING THE POINTS WHICH SOME SEEM TO HOLD AS THEIR BASIS FOR THEIR GREAVANCE, I HAD HOPED TO FINALLY KILL THIS THREAD AS HAS HAPPENED SO MANY TIMES IN THE PAST.

HOWEVER, HAVING FAILED THAT, I WILL SIMPLY BOWOUT OF THE DISCUSSION ALL TOGETHER.

THANK YOU !!!!!



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by hdutton
 
you seem to have past over this post www.abovetopsecret.com... from the link

When in fact a few clicks of the mouse and some reading you find the truth and the truth says not so, so with this I might make a run for the Pres in 2016, it says nothing that both parents must be US citizen or be born in the US. here i thought i could not run for only my mom is a citizen
one does need to read slowly when reading US laws miss a word or get it wrong , it makes you wrong, right?



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by hdutton
 
you seem to have past over this post www.abovetopsecret.com... from the link

When in fact a few clicks of the mouse and some reading you find the truth and the truth says not so, so with this I might make a run for the Pres in 2016, it says nothing that both parents must be US citizen or be born in the US. here i thought i could not run for only my mom is a citizen
one does need to read slowly when reading US laws miss a word or get it wrong , it makes you wrong, right?



Would you be so kind as to clarify if this is agreement or disagreement.

(c) Notwithstanding the provision of subsection (a) of this section, a person born, after December 23, 1952, outside the United States and out of wedlock shall be held to have acquired at birth the nationality status of his mother, if the mother had the nationality of the United States at the time of such person’s birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.

Thank you



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 



Hillary and the left started it,

Forgotten Truth: Hillary Clinton Mother of ‘Birther’ Movement!
www.canadafreepress.com...

The 'Birthers' Began on the Left
Feb 7, 2010 8:32 PM EST
Investigating the roots of the Obama birthplace conspiracy theory, Wingnuts author John Avlon uncovers the first Birther—and finds she’s a Hillary Clinton supporter also implicated in Dan Rather’s exit from CBS.



Investigations for my new book, Wingnuts, revealed that the Birther conspiracy theory was first concocted by renegade members of the original Obama haters, Party Unity My Ass, known more commonly by their acronym, the PUMAs. They were a splinter group of hard-core Hillary Clinton supporters who did not want to give up the ghost after the bitter 50-state Bataan Death March to the 2008 Democratic nomination.
www.thedailybeast.com...
In the early summer of '08, message boards on sites like PUMAParty.com began lighting up with the ultimate reversal-of-fortune fantasy—that their party's nomination could be overturned on constitutional grounds. "Obama May Be Illegal to Be Elected President!" read one representative e-mail: "This came from a USNA [U.S. Naval Academy] alumnus. It'll be interesting to see how the media handle this...WRITE TO YOUR LOCAL newspaper editors etc. Keep this out there everyday possible. Also write to the DNC too!"


youtu.be...




Origins of the claims

During the Democratic Party's 2008 presidential primaries, anonymous e-mails from supporters of Hillary Clinton surfaced that questioned Obama's citizenship in an attempt to revive Clinton's faltering primary election campaign. These and numerous other chain e-mails during the subsequent presidential election circulated false rumors about Obama's origin, religion and birth certificate.[21][22]

Jim Geraghty of the conservative website National Review Online may have sparked further speculation on June 9, 2008, when he asked that Obama release his birth certificate.[23][24] Geraghty wrote that releasing his birth certificate could debunk several false rumors circulating on the Internet, namely: that his middle name was originally Muhammad rather than Hussein; that his mother had originally named him "Barry" rather than "Barack"; and that Barack Obama, Sr. was not his biological father, as well as the rumor that Barack Obama was not a natural-born citizen.[24][25][26]

In October 2009, anonymous e-mails circulated claiming that the Associated Press (AP) had reported Obama was "Kenyan-Born".[27] The claims were based on an AP story that had appeared 5 years earlier in a Kenyan publication, The Standard.[27][28] The rumor-checking website Snopes.com found that the headline and lead-in sentence describing Obama as born in Kenya and misspelling his first name had been added by the Kenyan newspaper; and did not appear in the story issued by the AP or in any other contemporary newspaper that picked up the AP story.[27][29]

en.wikipedia.org...
So the left must be the racist, bigoted Islamaphobes.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 

I don't know why I bother, but perhaps there is a chance, no matter how slight, that you may actually be interested in the truth. Unlike the OP, whom it is clear to me, is NOT.
1. Everyone that is involved in this quest to prove or disprove has motivations for doing so. It doesn't matter much to me what the motivations are for asking that Obama prove he is qualified to hold the office of President of the United States. The ones attempting to prove he hasn't established the fact he IS eligible may have political reasons for doing so, OR they may just be interested in the TRUTH of the matter, OR they may support Obama and WANT to put this matter to rest once and for all. Intentions are not relevant, facts ARE.
2. Many people do not want to admit it, but many of our courts are thoroughly corrupt. IF you are a corrupt politician with power, you have the ability to put corrupt people into power. When a lawsuit/case is brought before a court, and the judge throws it out, it is important to know a bit about the judge, the lawsuit, as well as WHAT REASON the judge used to throw the case out. Other institutions are subject to corruption as well, like, the Hawaii Dept. of Health, for example.
3. Whenever any document has been offered on the behalf of Obama to put this matter to rest, legitimate questions have been raised about the authenticity of the document(s). This is not hearsay, it is all clearly documented by multiple alternative news sites. As far as "legitimate" news sources go, they are no longer legitimate if they ever were, because most news is no longer brought to the people by "legitimate" sources. They are clearly on the take themselves.
4. Obama has sealed practically everything about his past that he could. Anyone in public office that does this should arouse the suspicions of the public. What is there to hide?
5. I believe some of the accusations have NO merit, or have not been satisfactorily sourced. For example, it is true that Obama has spent more than two million with the law firm Perkins Coie, but it is not clear what the services provided were.
The bottom line though, is there IS evidence of foul play, false documents, and tampering with witnesses, hospital officials, and governmental officials.

Western Journalism

Is Obama constitutionally eligible to serve?

What has been uncovered, and is becoming evident to me, is that Obama is hiding something. Perhaps he is hiding his past for a reason. Perhaps our government does not run as it is proclaimed to be run. Perhaps a shadow government is actually pulling the strings.

Obama and the CIA

This is worthy of ATS. A real discussion on who this man really is, not partisan blah blah blah like we hear on the MSM.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by hdutton
 
the way i see it and this pertains to me, if the mother is a us natural born citizen the child me is one too now matter what the dad is, unless a diplomat, then the child (me) can not be a citizen, my dad was no diplomat, just of unknown origin, as far as I know a US citizen but no record of him or family. So yes I am a B@$t@rd

edit on 1-2-2012 by bekod because: editting
edit on 1-2-2012 by bekod because: editting



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 
I think it is a cover story for the real reason and they, the birther movement, are to ashamed to say it, so i will say it for them race!!! Simple as that!!! Nothing more, he is non white we can not have that.To bad so sad get used to it, if he would change his stance on some issues , yes i would vote for him again , I might if RP drops out.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 


He was born on a military base, wasn't he?

That means he was born on U.S. property, which makes him American.

That happens to lots of people, and I don't see people moaning about THEIR American rights...



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by hdutton
 


NONE OF THIS MATTERS. IT IS ALL ABOUT PEOPLE BORN OUTSIDE OF THE US.

WHAT MATTER IS 1401 (A) WHICH STATES A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS ANYONE BORN IN THE US.

Not shouting or upset, just trying to be esp clear.

1408 is unrelated to Obama. 1401 says he's a NBC. The courts all say a NBC is anyone born in the US.

Just like 1401 (a).

there's no mystery.


and obama has not yet proved he was born in the usa. You said it was crazy talk that the stamp has a typographical error but it does clear as day on the white house page. Care to explain that with something more than calling it crazy? No offense but i heard that argument before. You think birthers are crazy, duly noted. Now can you add anything to that?

See my below posts, i dont completely disagree with you but i dont completely agree either. Both sides are false paradigm.
edit on 1-2-2012 by filosophia because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by filosophia
 


FINALLY - There's no typo in the stamp. That's just crazy talk.
edit on 1-2-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)




Crazy like a fox.

Im sure youll say its just an h, i guess its how you squint at it. The main reason i think the birth certificate is fake is because they manipulated the background in order to include the floating signature and make it seem more part of the larger body. Why do that? Because the whole issue is meant to work either way, wnd and taitz may be working for the same people as obama, this is all meant to incite anger. My opinion pereonally
edit on 1-2-2012 by filosophia because: (no reason given)


after a closer look and more thoughts on this, my conclusion is it was meant to look like both an x and an h. Thats why there will be endless debate over this. So yes the bc is forged, but also meant to increase obedience to authority for those who see the h as opposed to the x. Crazy ha?
edit on 1-2-2012 by filosophia because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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The question is, who is behind the birthers.

Well, what do we know? We know that the left and right are a false paradigm that keeps independent thought out of the mainstream. My first suspicion of mr Dr. Jerome Corsi was when i saw a library book he wrote about the dangers of iran getting a nuke published in 2007 ish. Some truth seeker thwt guy is. Orly Taitz, lets admit, is a strange looking lady, im not saying this to be mean but if you were trying to track down a foreign russian ish spy you would look for the person who looks a bit out of place. So corsi and taitz may be right brained only.

This doesnt mean obama is cleqn cut though. If he had nothing to hide, why wait so long to release the bc, why wait at all? Obamas childhood in Indonesia doesntt help squash the rumors.

So my opinion, if anyone cares, is they are both wrong. A typical left right illusion to keep real issues like fast and furious or the destruction of the dollar or predator bombings under wrap.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by SurrealisticPillow
reply to post by kaylaluv
 


2. Many people do not want to admit it, but many of our courts are thoroughly corrupt. IF you are a corrupt politician with power, you have the ability to put corrupt people into power. When a lawsuit/case is brought before a court, and the judge throws it out, it is important to know a bit about the judge, the lawsuit, as well as WHAT REASON the judge used to throw the case out. Other institutions are subject to corruption as well, like, the Hawaii Dept. of Health, for example.
3. Whenever any document has been offered on the behalf of Obama to put this matter to rest, legitimate questions have been raised about the authenticity of the document(s). This is not hearsay, it is all clearly documented by multiple alternative news sites. As far as "legitimate" news sources go, they are no longer legitimate if they ever were, because most news is no longer brought to the people by "legitimate" sources. They are clearly on the take themselves.
4. Obama has sealed practically everything about his past that he could. Anyone in public office that does this should arouse the suspicions of the public. What is there to hide?
5. I believe some of the accusations have NO merit, or have not been satisfactorily sourced. For example, it is true that Obama has spent more than two million with the law firm Perkins Coie, but it is not clear what the services provided were.
The bottom line though, is there IS evidence of foul play, false documents, and tampering with witnesses, hospital officials, and governmental officials.

Western Journalism

Is Obama constitutionally eligible to serve?

What has been uncovered, and is becoming evident to me, is that Obama is hiding something. Perhaps he is hiding his past for a reason. Perhaps our government does not run as it is proclaimed to be run. Perhaps a shadow government is actually pulling the strings.

Obama and the CIA

This is worthy of ATS. A real discussion on who this man really is, not partisan blah blah blah like we hear on the MSM.


All of your links are thinly veiled extremist right-wing publications. They're not biased at all... riiiiiight.

Do you have documented, verifiable evidence that the Hawaii Dept of Health is corrupt?

So all judges who rule in Obama's favor are corrupt. Do you have documented verifiable proof of this?

Can someone or some dept or some organization be corrupt? Sure. Are they ALL corrupt? Highly unlikely.

I see one of your links doesn't like FactCheck. What about snopes or Politifact or Wikipedia? They're ALL corrupt? Barack's mother was corrupt? Barack's grandparents were corrupt? The teacher at the Honolulu prep school who remembers him was corrupt?

If I am going to look on the internet for facts, I am much more likely to believe non-partisan organizations, rather than biased blog-type fake news sites. Try looking at these instead:

www.snopes.com...

www.snopes.com...

www.politifact.com...

www.politifact.com...

www.politifact.com...

And then there is the "highly corrupt" Factcheck.org


factcheck.org...

Look, I certainly don't think Obama is the Messiah. He's got faults. Can you tell me one U.S. president who didn't have some faults? But this hogwash that he is this totally corrupt individual who has corrupted every single person and organization that he has ever come in contact with, or even those he hasn't is just insane. The undeniable proof just isn't there. There's no proof that he tampered with witnesses, hospital officials or government officials.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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What people say about the right wingers is true but you dont need to see his birth certificate to know he is not american, his actions prove he is a globalist, a globalist who is supported by the same wall street bankers he supposedly is against, a globalist who has continued the globalist foreign wars that bush started. The media made it seem like he was just another struggling middle class black student fom chicago who made the grade, and now has made history as the first black president but of course hes half black and one hundred percent owned by wall street. Not one banker has been arrested but instead they received bonuses, obama kept bernanke in at the fed, proving the republicans and dems work for the same team, which was obvious when both obama and mccain suspended their campaign to vote for the bailout which ninety percent of the public disproved of. So yes, right wingers will be right wingers but so will left wingers. This whole birth certificate issue is tainted with a false left right paradigm.
edit on 1-2-2012 by filosophia because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by filosophia
... you dont need to see his birth certificate to know he is not american,


And there we have that logic again... It doesn't matter if he's a natural-born US citizen or not, he's not Amer'can!



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by filosophia
 





wnd and taitz may be working for the same people as obama, this is all meant to incite anger.


That would mean if they are in cahoots with one-another, they anticipated the inquire into the birth certificate?

I at one time wondered if Taitz was an Obama supporter, but not WND,

Now if you go back to the original people involved with the questioning of Obamas BC,

This would actually make an interesting topic, if people would stick with the investigation.

edit on 032929p://bWednesday2012 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 

You simply have to look deeper, but I am not going to lead you by the hand. When you can reconcile the actions of the president as opposed to what he says, with an accurate history of the man as opposed to what your sources will indicate, then you will be able to understand what he has done, why he has done it, and what he is likely to do in the future.
Your country has been hijacked, and you are being lied to. Find better sources, real investigative journalists, and you may begin to see the bigger picture.
Fact.check....Jeez.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 


You were doing fine until you played the Race Card.

Playing the Race Card is even worse than the Birthers because it comes from pure hate and an attempt to sway an election with lies. Negates everything else you said because you can't be trusted.

I think the Birthers are just people who honestly believe they are right. They are not connected to any Party. That's just political "spin" and "spin" is a polite word for lies for political reasons. I don't agree with them, but I'm not going to vote for a failed President because of them. That would make me a fool.

This divide and conquer tactic is well known now and is just as disgusting as playing the Race Card. Tactics like that only work on people who should not vote anyway and those using that tool are in fact in my mind equal to the KKK because they hate an entire class of citizens based on lies. Pot meet Kettle.

Hate will eat you up inside.





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