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The book of Hebrews... truly divinely inspired?

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posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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O.k. this is my first post it was a letter to someone else, and written in a hurry. If you have anything that needs clarifying just ask.

First I doubt if Hebrews is divinely inspired. Sorry, but let's compare it to what Jesus taught, and see how they use the scripture. The author tells us that Jesus suffered in order to be made perfect. John 1 tells us that he's God, so he's always been perfect, always the same. The Word of God stands forever. He's not some high priest, or apostle, but God Himself. Even his quote from Psalms doesn't say you will become, it says, "You are a priest forever." Then he claims that the new covenant was Christ shedding his blood to clean us from our sins. Jesus taught us that his flesh and blood was the word he spoke. (John 6:56&62-63)vs (Heb. 9:14) I think he also tells a disciple he's now clean after hearing his words, but I can't find it. Jesus said "I desire mercy not sacrifice.", and teaches to be forgiven we must forgive. Seems it's more focused on Him dying for us instead of Him living for us, and us living for him.
Not only does the author not understand the scripture(Isa. 6:9), but he changes it to fit his belief. 10:16 he's using to support his blood sacrifice new covenant. When the Lord was speaking through Jeremiah, about the covenant he would reveal when he came. He quotes, "There sins and lawless acts I will remember no more" away from the rest of the text. Which when you read explains that the people to be forgiven will know him, because he will be there teacher. Which again tells us that the Word that enlightens us about ourselves and others is the new covenant, not his death. How would his death inscribe a law. Wouldn't believing his word be the new inscription? John says In the beginning was the Word. Jesus said his word are the spirit and life, and another time I Am the Gate. If he is the Word, when we follow Him we follow his words to get through the Gate. So how does this author convince us that we get to the Most Holy Place by His blood? Did we already forget what God said?
Again in 10:37 he shreds the book of Habakkuk. He quotes, "He who is coming will come and not delay." "It is coming and will not delay" is talking about an end time prophetic revelation that we talked about the other day, Not any person. Then he places in, "And if he shinks back I will not be pleased with him," which I can't find anywhere in the 'quoted' scripture. He does this to push his belief that if we sin after believing we are 'cleaned by his blood', then were damned, or crucifying Christ again somehow. This also shows complete misunderstanding of Christ's life and death,which showed his infinite mercy. After knowing Christ for years on earth, did Peter not deny the Lord 3 times? Then after his death did he not still offer Peter a chance to "feed his sheep?" If your brother sins against you seven times forgive him. Even in the story of Cain and Able, Cain is told he will be accepted he he does whats right. He doesn't listen and kills his brother, and the Lord still allows him to live, and have a child like Enoch.
Then we get to more righteous live by faith stuff. Blah, blah rambling foolishness that if we read the stories we see everyone followed God's word to be declared righteous. Of course we need faith but that's simply believing in God. The test is obeying his word. 11:7 says by faith Noah condemned the world? No, he escaped the Lord's condemnation by following a command. He's a man and had no right to condemn anyone. Again the Abraham example we can clearly dismiss by a quick review of Genesis. Then he quotes Proverbs by saying. "he punishes anyone he accepts as a son," I'm sorry but where does it say that?
Then we get to the bloodshed stuff again. Jesus said very clearly that his words are the spirit that brings life. Jesus' death on the cross is a disgrace to man. Mal. 4:6 ",he will turn the hearts... or else I will come and smite the earth with a curse." In John he said they did with him what they wanted. In Gen. it says anyone hung on a tree is a curse. It's disgusting to glorify his death as what brings us life. We need to believe that he is exactly who he claimed to be, God, not some apostle or high priest. Until then we will never be able to use his words, or see them as the truly are, the truth and the light. The words apostle and high priest, when talking about our Lord, is a slap in the face to the entire rest of the book.

Hope you liked... I will have much more in the future, in fact I could write a book on this alone. Be sure to join me for some crazy true stories in the near future.




posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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If you know the book of Hebrews, this letter goes right along with it. Open it up and compare to get a better idea of what I'm argueing with. This was a letter to a preacher, all I'm doing is pointing out clashes with the old testament, the teachings of Jesus, and showing how they misquote scripture.

Sorry if you don't believe the way I do, please don't let that get in the way of the truth. That the author does not know God.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by atotheb
O.k. this is my first post it was a letter to someone else, and written in a hurry. If you have anything that needs clarifying just ask.

First I doubt if Hebrews is divinely inspired. Sorry, but let's compare it to what Jesus taught, and see how they use the scripture. The author tells us that Jesus suffered in order to be made perfect. John 1 tells us that he's God, so he's always been perfect, always the same. The Word of God stands forever. He's not some high priest, or apostle, but God Himself. Even his quote from Psalms doesn't say you will become, it says, "You are a priest forever." Then he claims that the new covenant was Christ shedding his blood to clean us from our sins. Jesus taught us that his flesh and blood was the word he spoke. (John 6:56&62-63)vs (Heb. 9:14) I think he also tells a disciple he's now clean after hearing his words, but I can't find it. Jesus said "I desire mercy not sacrifice.", and teaches to be forgiven we must forgive. Seems it's more focused on Him dying for us instead of Him living for us, and us living for him.
Not only does the author not understand the scripture(Isa. 6:9), but he changes it to fit his belief. 10:16 he's using to support his blood sacrifice new covenant. When the Lord was speaking through Jeremiah, about the covenant he would reveal when he came. He quotes, "There sins and lawless acts I will remember no more" away from the rest of the text. Which when you read explains that the people to be forgiven will know him, because he will be there teacher. Which again tells us that the Word that enlightens us about ourselves and others is the new covenant, not his death. How would his death inscribe a law. Wouldn't believing his word be the new inscription? John says In the beginning was the Word. Jesus said his word are the spirit and life, and another time I Am the Gate. If he is the Word, when we follow Him we follow his words to get through the Gate. So how does this author convince us that we get to the Most Holy Place by His blood? Did we already forget what God said?
Again in 10:37 he shreds the book of Habakkuk. He quotes, "He who is coming will come and not delay." "It is coming and will not delay" is talking about an end time prophetic revelation that we talked about the other day, Not any person. Then he places in, "And if he shinks back I will not be pleased with him," which I can't find anywhere in the 'quoted' scripture. He does this to push his belief that if we sin after believing we are 'cleaned by his blood', then were damned, or crucifying Christ again somehow. This also shows complete misunderstanding of Christ's life and death,which showed his infinite mercy. After knowing Christ for years on earth, did Peter not deny the Lord 3 times? Then after his death did he not still offer Peter a chance to "feed his sheep?" If your brother sins against you seven times forgive him. Even in the story of Cain and Able, Cain is told he will be accepted he he does whats right. He doesn't listen and kills his brother, and the Lord still allows him to live, and have a child like Enoch.
Then we get to more righteous live by faith stuff. Blah, blah rambling foolishness that if we read the stories we see everyone followed God's word to be declared righteous. Of course we need faith but that's simply believing in God. The test is obeying his word. 11:7 says by faith Noah condemned the world? No, he escaped the Lord's condemnation by following a command. He's a man and had no right to condemn anyone. Again the Abraham example we can clearly dismiss by a quick review of Genesis. Then he quotes Proverbs by saying. "he punishes anyone he accepts as a son," I'm sorry but where does it say that?
Then we get to the bloodshed stuff again. Jesus said very clearly that his words are the spirit that brings life. Jesus' death on the cross is a disgrace to man. Mal. 4:6 ",he will turn the hearts... or else I will come and smite the earth with a curse." In John he said they did with him what they wanted. In Gen. it says anyone hung on a tree is a curse. It's disgusting to glorify his death as what brings us life. We need to believe that he is exactly who he claimed to be, God, not some apostle or high priest. Until then we will never be able to use his words, or see them as the truly are, the truth and the light. The words apostle and high priest, when talking about our Lord, is a slap in the face to the entire rest of the book.

Hope you liked... I will have much more in the future, in fact I could write a book on this alone. Be sure to join me for some crazy true stories in the near future.


Wow! This is a good one! It is going to take me a while to adress all of the points in this exegesis of Hebrews and the Other books, including the OT! But this is a very nicely written letter! People such as yourself are the most dangerous to the established authorities, as you do homework



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:52 PM
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Thanks alot bro! All iv'e been doing is reading. If you go through and look at all the addressed points, wow. This was actually a condensed version. Hebrews is my pastors favorite book, so i tried not to be to harsh... he still hasn't wrote back. I want to extend this letter into a chapter, and write a book about the others as well. If God wills, and I hope he does, I will let him use me to get the truth to all. I'm hoping to get more people in the church to see the truth, then bye, bye devil catholics.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 11:56 PM
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And by the abraham ex. I mean what he uses to support his idea of faith and faith alone. Which is easily smashed not only by James, but also Gen 26:5. Where the Lord himself declares why Abraham is righteous.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by atotheb
 

I stopped reading when I got to ..



First I doubt if Hebrews is divinely inspired...



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by Komodo
 


Then your missing an important lesson. I'm sure you'll go to church on Sunday though. "If the blind lead the blind, both of them will fall into a pit."



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by atotheb
 


My take on this is that there are 2 faces to christianity. The first being what was taught by Jesus directly. The other, being the mythology woven around Jesus, that are not rooted in the books of the bible.



First I doubt if Hebrews is divinely inspired.

Its not just hebrews, but also a lot of other portions of the new testament.
There are ideas in there that just dont sit well with the basic monotheism taught by Jesus and all the other Old Testament prophets.



Jesus said "I desire mercy not sacrifice.", and teaches to be forgiven we must forgive. Seems it's more focused on Him dying for us instead of Him living for us, and us living for him.


YES.
Jesus also taught a lot of other things... he was a teacher.
But, chrisitans ignore most of what Jesus taught and reduce Jesus to a mere sacrificial animal... a tool to cleanse themselves of their sins.
Many places in the bible teach that sins are forgiven through sincere repentance and asking God for forgiveness and that one cant die for anothers sins. But christianity is based around this bizarre mythology where one mans death can supposedly save everybody from their sins.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 04:39 AM
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reply to post by atotheb
 


Hi... I've been researching this for quite a while. I'm a Christian, but I don't mind asking questions to get to the truth... I don't believe the whole Bible (as we have it right now; you know: filtered through the Vatican) is inspired.

Thought you might find this link interesting - I'm not saying I fully agree with anything; I need some more time to investigate it... But, its related and interesting nonetheless (it covers Paul's contradictory teachings to what Jesus said):

Jesus' Words Only



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by atotheb
Thanks alot bro! All iv'e been doing is reading. If you go through and look at all the addressed points, wow. This was actually a condensed version. Hebrews is my pastors favorite book, so i tried not to be to harsh... he still hasn't wrote back. I want to extend this letter into a chapter, and write a book about the others as well. If God wills, and I hope he does, I will let him use me to get the truth to all. I'm hoping to get more people in the church to see the truth, then bye, bye devil catholics.


Are the Catholics really that different from the Protestants?



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 06:01 AM
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reply to post by atotheb
 
Just my take on a few points you bring up ...God does declare Abraham righeous but not by works as he got Sarah to lie when he decided to go to Egypt .God gave him instructions where to go and Egypt was not it ...



Rom 5:8


But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:9


Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 5:10


For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 06:35 AM
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Hi OP

Can I ask..
Do you understand WHY the curtain was rent in the temple when Jesus died and what it meant?
Do you understand WHY Jesus could not be touched before ascending to Heaven?
Do you understand WHY Jesus had to be killed?
Do you understand WHY Jesus had to be born of a virgin, in the likeness of sinful flesh but perfect and holy?

When you can understand the answers to those questions, there is no question as to the inspiration of Hebrews. Most of your seeming "contradictions" would be answered. Pray for understanding.

Peace.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by StrangeCottageCheese
 


I think alot of that book has alot of truth in it. I think the author thinks all of the old law is still in place though.
But Jesus changed kill disobedient people to forgive them during his incarnation. He also said, all the hard work is done for us... we just follow him. A few of the old commands were negated during his incarnation.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by michaelsherlock
 


Depends on the preacher. First off God said, call no man on earth your father... the pope where's a hat that says vicar of christ. And one of their main methods of salvation requires we drink Jesus' blood. A huge misinterpretation.

I've also noticed, when I point out inconsistencies, a certain catholic man wants to convince me that only priests who have studied in a certain way in Rome have access to the real truth. And that the real truth must come from them. They also think they have the power to change laws through their preisthood, but the word of the Lord stands forever.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by WhoKnows100
 


Yes, all of this happened to prove that he was God. The veil being torn was simply us not knowing who God was. But when Jesus came and revealed hHmself, whoosh, our blindness was removed, and we can now reread the old canon in a with new light.

Sure he died for us, that's what drew our attention to him, and ourselves, if we take responsibility for our unbelieving minds. More importantly though he lived for us, and left his words to lead us into all truth... as long as we trust Him, and go where he leads us.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:19 AM
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reply to post by the2ofusr1
 


Gen 26:5 ",because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."
Duet. 6:25 "And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he commanded us, that will be our righteousness."
James 2:20 "You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?..."

I'm gonna stop there, you obviously didn't read this with observation, and are parroting some ideas you got from church. James' letter is seemingly a direct rebuttal to the letter to the Romans. Look at them side by side. Who was being persecuted, who was offending the poor? Who was claiming faith, without deeds of the law? Paul.
If we read the new testament, with careful observation, we realize that it's a whole new philosophy than the rest of the book.

Note to add, I have no problem with James, or Revelation, and there's still a few I have left to scrutinize.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:19 AM
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OP -"11:7 says by faith Noah condemned the world? No, he escaped the Lord's condemnation by following a command. He's a man and had no right to condemn anyone".

Hebrew 11:7 "7By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith."

Jesus said "....On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. REMEMBER LOT'S WIFE."

Jesus asks each of us to remember LOT'S wife for a reason. What did she do? Despite being commanded to not look back, she still did. Why? Because she could not let go of the world and EVERYTHING in it. Jesus tells us the very same thing, I have and accept that I am condemning the world to judgement. If Jesus tells me to run, I go. There is no going back for my family, possessions - nothing. By shutting the Ark doors Noah did the same thing - he condemned the outside world to drown. Do you see what level of faith God desires in each of us? The author of Hebrews understood and gave us examples such as Noah.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:34 AM
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Again, look at the post above yours. Lot didn't obey God. Did she have faith in one god, sure. "Even the demons believe that and shudder." The place was already being condemned, all she had to do was trust God, which she didn't.

Come on guys pich up your Bibles and turn to Hebrew 10:37. Compare to Habakkuk 2:1-3. Huge transformation in scripture. And that's not the only time the author leaves out some scripture to push a foriegn belief, but it is the only time he changes it.

Theses ideas come from Paul, not Jesus or any prophet. And just to add it's very doubtful if Paul wrote this letter, comparing it to his other letters. Completely different style.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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The ancient Hebrew texts say the deity ordered to be called "YHWH".

Gad was a Semitic deity of fortune. pronouncing the ancient hebrew word sounds like "God" in English, which is where your new English word "GOD"....comes from. The Semitic deity of fortune.

Jesus and Gad (God) are of no relation. Jesus is the son of YHWH.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:40 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


You got it... and this is exactly the kind of belief I'm seeking to destroy.



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