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The book of Hebrews... truly divinely inspired?

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posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 05:42 PM
reply to post by sacgamer25

"He judges all, and punishes those who do wrong. All will be sprinkled with fire." Also not disagreeing with that, I'm just saying he misquoted scripture, again. Probably to support his ideas.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 05:45 PM
reply to post by sacgamer25

"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father... I and the Father are one..." And he also thanks God for revealing his name, "the name you gave me," and then, "In that day you will ask in My name. I'm not saying I will ask the Father on your behalf." Where does that come from... your kidding me. Starting with John 14:5, what I think is chief importance on Jesus identity... If you only believe that he is who he shows he is.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 06:12 PM
reply to post by atotheb

I am sorry if I sounded like I was judging you. Let me show you a passage that shows you what I was talking about.

Bible verse Acts 8: 14-17

14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

You see it is possible for someone to believe the word and not receive the Holy Spirit. I have a question to you believe in the following verses? Do you fully believe that God has a way to make this the truth in your life?

John 3:3-73 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” 4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Rom. 6:16-18 16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. 17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. 18 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

I John 5:4 4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

Not being able to talk to you in person makes it a little difficult for me to know exactly where you are at. Do you have faith that you can become free from sin like it says? Do you believe you are already free from sin? No matter what your answer is I believe that I can help you take another step towards understanding Paul.

I promise I was not judging you. I just think that the gift of the Holy Spirit is not always something one receives immediately. And water baptism does not guarantee the Holy Spirit. This in no way was meant to be judgmental but rather more like guidance. I judge no one for I believe that forgiveness was given to all, and I forgive all.

It is my sincere belief that today’s Christian is repeating the error of the Pharisees. Somehow we seem to forget that Moses and Abraham were saved and considered righteous on faith alone. They did not have Jesus or the profits only faith. Today’s Christian violates 2 very important things that we are taught not to do.

The first is Christians boast. Saying things like “I am Christian I am saved”, there is nothing wrong with feeling joy knowing you are saved but Christians boast of there salvation. The bible says Grace is a gift so that no man may boast. It is this boasting that leads most to violate the second command, not to judge. If someone has broken one of the laws it as if they broke them all. We are all guilty and all need forgiveness, none is righteous to be the judge. To tell someone they are sinning is not judging, but if you believe in your heart that a man’s sin will put them in hell you have judged based on them breaking the law. As a law breaker ourselves we have no right to cast the first stone.

Our gift of Grace should only humble us and drive us to ensure that all become aware of Grace.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 06:27 PM
reply to post by atotheb

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant Mathew 18:21-35

21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[g]

23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold[h] was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

You need to realize that your debt was forgiven by Grace. Grace was given you freely so that no one may boast. If you believe that you must forgive to be forgiven then you put a condition on Grace. Now you do need to forgive to remain forgiven, but you were forgiven before you were even born.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 06:52 PM
reply to post by atotheb

The bread symbolizes his flesh, which is the word.
The wine, symbolized his blood, which is the Holy Spirit.

Mathew 26:28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Exodus 24:6-8 And Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and half of the blood he threw against the altar. Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it in the hearing of the people. And they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient.” And Moses took the blood and threw it on the people and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”

Exodus 12:7-23 “Then they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted on the fire; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it. Do not eat any of it raw or boiled in water, but roasted, its head with its legs and its inner parts. And you shall let none of it remain until the morning; anything that remains until the morning you shall burn. In this manner you shall eat it: with your belt fastened, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. And you shall eat it in haste. It is the Lord's Passover. ...

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

Ezekiel 43:20 And you shall take some of its blood and put it on the four horns of the altar and on the four corners of the ledge and upon the rim all around. Thus you shall purify the altar and make atonement for it.

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Peter 1:2 According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Revelation 7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

Colossians 1:20 And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

John 6:53-56 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Maybe I am not understanding you but which of the verses in Hebrews does not agree with the verses above?

Hebrews 13:20 Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant,

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Hebrews 13:12 So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood.

Hebrews 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 11:28 By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them.

Hebrews 10:29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 9:12-14 He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

I think the importance of blood has to do with the way Jesus died. He bled to death for us, literally. All of his blood was poured out for us. This is how much we are loved.
edit on 1-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:57 PM
reply to post by atotheb

And by the abraham ex. I mean what he uses to support his idea of faith and faith alone. Which is easily smashed not only by James, but also Gen 26:5. Where the Lord himself declares why Abraham is righteous.

Who are you arguing with here?
Who is saying these things you are refuting?
The preacher who you wrote the letter to?
Paul talks about Abraham having faith enough to do what The Lord told him and was so deemed righteous, before the written Law of Moses existed, so the point Paul is making is that there is a righteousness which exists outside of the Law.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 08:10 PM
reply to post by StrangeCottageCheese

. . . it covers Paul's contradictory teachings to what Jesus said . . .

I would recommend a healthy skepticism of the Book of Acts, and what it has Paul saying, and correct that with what Paul wrote himself, the book of Paul being the letters he prepared for publication himself, and which was the core that the rest of the New Testament was built around, being Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians.
Other letters mostly agreed on by biblical scholars as being written by Paul (as opposed to being forgeries written in his name) are: Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, and Philemon.

edit on 1-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 09:48 PM
reply to post by the2ofusr1

. . . ...God does declare Abraham righeous but not by works . . .

Then you go on to quote Romans 5:8-10.
I think what is throwing you off is that earlier in the chapter the words, "declared righteous by faith", is in there.
What you are doing is taking the two concepts, the declared righteous, and the death of Jesus, and creating a cause and effect linkage through the common usage of the word, dikaioó, in both verses.
In verse 9 . . .
Much more then, because we have now been declared righteous by his blood, we will be saved through him from God’s wrath.

. . . what is translated "we have now been declared righteous" is a single Greek word which can also be translated as, vindicated, depending on the context.
The point Paul is making here is not an exposition on the methodology of the application of Jesus' blood, but is an explanation of God's gifts to us, making a comparison between what God did for us while we considered Him our enemy, and what God will do for us now that we have found a reconciliation with God through Jesus.
Considering the context, dikaioó could mean, vindicated, as in:
Now it is justifiable to assume God with continue to do good things for us in the light of what he has already done.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 09:57 PM
reply to post by atotheb

He also said, all the hard work is done for us... we just follow him.

You left out the "take up your cross" part.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:03 PM
reply to post by atotheb

Theses ideas come from Paul, not Jesus or any prophet.

You might as well give up believing in Jesus if you think Paul was not a prophet, or that Jesus spoke directly to Paul in Revelation because the New Testament is almost entirely based on Paul and what he said and what he wrote.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:12 PM
reply to post by Pervius

The ancient Hebrew texts say the deity ordered to be called "YHWH".

Gad was a Semitic deity of fortune. pronouncing the ancient hebrew word sounds like "God" in English, which is where your new English word "GOD"....comes from. The Semitic deity of fortune.

Jesus and Gad (God) are of no relation. Jesus is the son of YHWH.
The angel of Sinai did not order anyone, he said if someone asked for a name, just say, "I Am".
God, is how Theos, in the Greek New Testament, is translated into English.
God means good.
The New Testament is how we know about Jesus, and it says he is the son of Theos.
YHWH is not in the New Testament.
Jesus, himself takes that old designation, I Am, from the angel of the Sinai, for himself.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:18 PM
reply to post by WhoKnows100

. . . why do you think the western "Christian" nations are filled with sinful activities?

For the same reason you put quotation marks around the word, Christian, because they are in name only, and generally ignore the religion and developed their own practices based on what they think is right, but it may be better than what you had going on when they had a state religion with authority ti put to death "heretics".
edit on 1-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:21 PM
reply to post by the2ofusr1

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Which is a quote from a forgery, so built into this verse is the explanation for the forgery, to be considered as scripture so the forger's words will seem to have weight.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:23 PM
I can dig it guys. Totally shedding some light on my newly awakened eyes!

I was actually refering to Rom 3:28 "For we maintain that man is justified by faith apart from observing the law."
Compare that with Duet. 6:25 "And if we are careful to obey... as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness."

The Rom 4:3 "What does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Then what my scripture says Gen 26:5 "because Abraham obeyed me and kept my commands, my decrees and my laws." That sure sounds alot different than a man being justified apart from of observing the law.

I think faith is a starting point, not the main point.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:28 PM
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Jesus being the sacrificial lamb comes directly from the jewish faith. Lambs were used on Yom Kippur to cleanse the people of sins but that cleansing didn't last. A final solution was needed to free mankind from sin forever, an everlasting sacrifice that could be done once and for all.

Jesus himself said he came to save all mankind and there was only one way he could do that, by shedding his blood. Remember he was an observing jew but he is also God in the flesh.
Lambs were not used for Yom Kippur. That was goats, for sins, and a bull was sacrificed for the high priest to enter the Most Holy Place.
I think you are confusing your holy days and are probably thinking of Passover, which was not about sins.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:34 PM
reply to post by atotheb

I think faith is a starting point, not the main point.

We enter into a life of faith by first believing.
Faith is the thing which replaces the Law.
Instead of words carved in stone, we have the spirit write it on our hearts.
So where the Old Testament says, "By the Law", put, "By Faith"
It is the new system of salvation, or the new "religion".

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:39 PM
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

God's hebrew name Is Yahovah

That was the name of the angel of Sinai, which is wrongly associated with the place today called Sinai, but was really in Arabia, to the south and east of the place called Sinai today.
In this area where the Israelites came up from into Canaan, is what was the land of the Medianites, who had as their God, YHWH, so they got that name from this angel you can associate with Jethro, the father in law of Moses, who he was the priest of.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:49 PM
reply to post by davidchin

. . . Satan can only do that which God allows . . .

The Old Testament Satan is not the same Satan as in the New Testament.
In the NT, Satan is the Cosmic Serpent, which is a natural occurring thing left over from the creation of the universe by Anankē. It does not explain it exactly that way in the NT but it is in there by the use of her name and how Jesus used it to describe how the cosmos works. Evil is the natural state of affairs and can't be helped but God is here to alleviate our suffering and is not the cause of it, not being the creator of the universe but who makes it possible for us to live in it.

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:55 PM
reply to post by atotheb

Faith is described as faith by works. Faith without works is dead. So faith is the point but it is not enough to sit around having faith and doing nothing with it.

edit on 1-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:04 PM
And also this Grace was offered throughout the OT. If people would only turn to him, they would be saved. That message wasn't something new when God incarnated. It was just revealed to all, for an equal chance for everyone.

And for those of you who think Jesus is less than God. Isa. 53:10 "he will see his offspring and prolong his days."
Who are his offspring? Most certainly the ones who know who their father is and obey his instructions.
Jer. 33:15&16 " I will make a righteous Branch sprout from David's line... This is the name by which it will be called: The Lord our Righteousness.
"Zech 12:10 "They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child... firstborn son..."

One of the last things said in the OT Mal 4:4 Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him..."

It still stands that Paul is a hypocrite?
Acts 2:12 "he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived he began to draw back and separate himself..."
So he's calling the apostles hypocrites for changing costums around people... then we find him in 1 Cor. 8:13 "Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again..."
Now we have Paul preaching a new message to the apostles after the Lord said in John 15:20 "If they obeyed my teachings, they will obey yours also."

Also, even though Paul called Peter out, we have his letter teaching to do the opposite, Tit. 3:9 "But avoid foolish... arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless." I'm starting to believe the only truth in his letters is what he learned from the apostles, not God. Then throws in a little of his own teachings like look good in front of all people, and if a brother doesn't work, neither should he eat, and Don't give charity to widows under a certain age 'cause there whore. O.k. Mr. judge of men.

What about woe to you when all men speak well of you... blessed are the poor... whenever you fed him you fed me... and another common theme, don't vex the fatherless and the widows.

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